Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/5/2006 6:51:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 6:52:32 AM EDT by AtlantaFireman]
Before I proceed any further...

Is it legal to use an unaltered, unmodified M16 bolt carrier and M16 bolt in an AR15 build?

All other parts are AR15 semi-auto; no other M16 parts are used...other than M16, slab side upper, and barrel.

I cannot find documentation one way or the other.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:23:10 AM EDT
oh jeez....
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:29:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 8:31:04 AM EDT by SBR7_11]
"Cannot find any documentation",


HMM, how about the ATF.gov site, that there opinion they have in regards to M16 parts being used in the assembly of AR15 type rifles, that might could fire more than 1 round with a single trigger function...

Does not really matter to me, I have no use for M16 parts, as AR parts are just M16 parts with the offfending parts removed.

You might could hit the "GENERAL" button there up towards the right, then click the "LEGAL" forum, seems to me there is a "tacked" topic there.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:46:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
HMM, how about the ATF.gov site, that there opinion they have in regards to M16 parts being used in the assembly of AR15 type rifles, that might could fire more than 1 round with a single trigger function...


Nothing specific is listed: I checked before posting. Possibly its there, I just missed it.


You might could hit the "GENERAL" button there up towards the right, then click the "LEGAL" forum, seems to me there is a "tacked" topic there.

The tacked topic goes back and forth.

Screw it. Its not worth the hassle. I'll buy the non-nothced from Fulton Armory.

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:59:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Before I proceed any further...

Is it legal to use an unaltered, unmodified M16 bolt carrier and M16 bolt in an AR15 build?

All other parts are AR15 semi-auto; no other M16 parts are used...other than M16, slab side upper, and barrel.

I cannot find documentation one way or the other.



There is no difference between an AR15 and M16 BOLT. The BOLT CARRIERS are different.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:13:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Before I proceed any further...

Is it legal to use an unaltered, unmodified M16 bolt carrier and M16 bolt in an AR15 build?

All other parts are AR15 semi-auto; no other M16 parts are used...other than M16, slab side upper, and barrel.

I cannot find documentation one way or the other.



There is no difference between an AR15 and M16 BOLT. The BOLT CARRIERS are different.



+1
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:20:59 AM EDT
Here is the LINK Atl Fireman to the discussion that results in the clarification.

Ignore the first couple of replies, as they get pasted for their misleading info.


short story: Good to go. No problems



Also: here is a letter from ATF to Colt (in reply to question from Colt whether it was legal to include M16 carriers in AR15's ......note page 2)







ps: In half the time it took to lambaste the Fireman for his lack of ARFCOM search-fu, we could have given him good information.

(former chamblee-tucker road-ie here )



Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:39:57 AM EDT
Wasn't Bushmaster or somebody sending out rifles with M16 carriers in them? I would find it hard to believe that a reputable manufacturer would do it if it weren't legal. My "mutt" has what used to be an M16 carrier in it, but the previous owner milled the bottom of the carrier to semi specs.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:51:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Wasn't Bushmaster or somebody sending out rifles with M16 carriers in them? I would find it hard to believe that a reputable manufacturer would do it if it weren't legal. My "mutt" has what used to be an M16 carrier in it, but the previous owner milled the bottom of the carrier to semi specs.



As redfisher noted, Colt was shipping them in some rifles. 6920's IIRC.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:53:58 AM EDT
Is it possible to get a larger picture of the BATF letter? I would like to print it out for my file.

Thanks, JC
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:54:42 AM EDT
The first SP-1's were shipped with M-16 carriers, then they switched to the ar-15 carriers.

Since Colt went this direction, rule of thumb has been to not use M-16 parts in the semi builds.

Simple put, as long as the BATF can't make your rifle go full-auto with your current parts alone, your good to go.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:05:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 10:06:29 AM EDT by Arch-angel]
Here is the reply from the ATF I received

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: EPS Directorate [mailto:EPS@atf.gov]
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:49 PM
To: Sales@mwausa.com
Subject: NFA Parts


Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. As stated on our site, generally, we do not answer technical questions via e-mail, but I contacted our Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the following:


"If the bolt carrier were the only M16 part installed in the AR15, and the AR15 did not fire automatically, it would be legal. However you should be aware of the following advise:

3. IMPORTANT INFORMATION CONCERNING

AR-15 TYPE RIFLES

ATF has encountered various AR-15 type assault rifles such as those
manufactured by Colt, E.A. Company, SGW, Sendra and others, which have been
assembled with fire control components designed for use in M16 machine guns.
The vast majority of these rifles which have been assembled with an M16 bolt
carrier, hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector will fire automatically
merely by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector. Many
of these rifles using less than the 5 M16 parts listed above also will shoot
automatically by manipulation of the selector or removal of the disconnector.
Any weapon which shoots automatically, more than 1 shot, without manual
reloading, by a single function of the trigger, is a machine gun as defined in
26 U.S.C. 5845(b), the National Firearms Act (NFA). In addition, the
definition of a machine gun also includes any combination of parts from which
a machine gun may be assembled, if such parts are in possession or under the
control of a person. An AR-15 type assault rifle which fires more than 1 shot
by a single function of the trigger is a machine gun under the NFA. Any
machine gun is subject to the NFA and the possession of an unregistered
machine gun could subject the possessor to criminal prosecution.
Additionally, these rifles could pose a safety hazard in that they may
fire automatically without the user being aware that the weapon will fire more
than 1 shot with a single pull of the trigger.
In order to avoid violations of the NFA, M16 hammers, triggers,
disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of
AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to
AR-15 Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15 type rifles which have been
assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and
replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially.
The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.
It is important to note that any modification of the M16 parts should be
attempted by fully qualified personnel only.
Should you have any questions concerning AR-15 type rifles with M16
parts, please contact your nearest ATF office. Our telephone numbers are
listed in the "United States Government" section of your telephone directory
under the "United States Treasury Department."


If you have any further questions, please call them on 304-260-1700. Regards,



Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:04:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By redfisher:






Thats is as taken from the ATF 5300.4 book. You can call ATF Material Distribution, and get as many copies of the book as you desire for FREE. Same is printed on the ATF site.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SBR7_11:

Originally Posted By redfisher:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v400/redfisher19/c80459b5.bmp



Thats is as taken from the ATF 5300.4 book. You can call ATF Material Distribution, and get as many copies of the book as you desire for FREE. Same is printed on the ATF site.




Here is the 5300.4 Book in .pdf

But after a general search, I couldnt find this letter or specific reference- other than the above material posted by Arch-Angel
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:15:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Before I proceed any further...

Is it legal to use an unaltered, unmodified M16 bolt carrier and M16 bolt in an AR15 build?

All other parts are AR15 semi-auto; no other M16 parts are used...other than M16, slab side upper, and barrel.

I cannot find documentation one way or the other.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=147440
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:30:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Model_One:

Originally Posted By AtlantaFireman:
Before I proceed any further...

Is it legal to use an unaltered, unmodified M16 bolt carrier and M16 bolt in an AR15 build?

All other parts are AR15 semi-auto; no other M16 parts are used...other than M16, slab side upper, and barrel.

I cannot find documentation one way or the other.



www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=147440



Not sure exactly what the point of linking to that thread is when the specfic ATF letter allowing M-16 parts has been posted several times in this thread. In addition that thread is 17 pages long and spans 3 years, and there is a metric fuckton of inaccurate and just plain wrong 'i heard' and 'someone on the internet told me so' bullshit in it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:34:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZootTX:
Not sure exactly what the point of linking to that thread is when the specfic ATF letter allowing M-16 parts has been posted several times in this thread. In addition that thread is 17 pages long and spans 3 years, and there is a metric fuckton of inaccurate and just plain wrong 'i heard' and 'someone on the internet told me so' bullshit in it.



Because the pissing match is much more interesting than some damned letter.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:37:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:51:46 PM EDT
Top Top