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Posted: 1/3/2006 6:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 1:42:37 PM EDT by Dangasaur]
Well I have been having problems with the gun shooting very high since I purchased it. I initially thought it was a sighting problem but after inspection of the barrel tonight it's definately got a bent barrel. Had the barrel looked at by half a dozen people who were not told the problem and were able to identify it almost imediately.

Emailed Stag tonight to see how I go about getting it replaced.

And just when the weather was starting to get nice...

/*-----UPDATE 2/2/06-----*/

Recieved my upper back from stag on 2/1/06. Looks like they replaced everything. I don't see the same forging marks on the upper reciever that I did on my old ones. The FSB is double marked 'F' instead of 1 F (kind of weird). The ARMS 40A2 looks a little different (mine had more wear). I didn't spend enough time looking at my bolt and carrier to memorize the marks on them so it may be the original one I sent in.

Looking down the barrel you can see a huge difference than what the old one looked like. Straight as an arrow. I will update this section with a range report on Sunday 2/4/06.

Though I got no "official response" from STAG on what the actual problems found were I do know this. One of the people in QA that I talked to said something to the effect of "at the very least the barrel and reciever were not mated correctly at all". I have a feeling that when the barrel was torqued down it could have possibly bowed.

Stag has been nothing but excellent in backing their warranty and product. I cannot say enough good things about them. Their phone support was very helpful and always had time to answer my questions. They paid for shipping twice, one time being overnight, (see more on this at the bottom) without hessitation.

UPS on the other hand fails in every way possible. Initially sending the upper off was delayed 1 business week because the clerk didn't check the shipping address. He also incorrectly typed my home address which delayed the return trip from STAG 1 business week. Luckily STAG was very understanding and overnighted the upper to me on it's 2nd return trip.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:30:36 PM EDT
a bent bbl?


did you adjust the front sight?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:56:26 PM EDT
To zero the rifle at 100 yards I would have to raise the front screw so high the detent wouldn't hold it still or worse, the front sight would fall out.

It's obvious when you compare this barrel with another AR barrel, there is definately a bend in it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:42:48 PM EDT
I'm pretty sure there is a tall sight post to fix just such a problem. If you look through the barrel can you see the bend? Did you do a massive mag dump or something to warp it?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:48:10 PM EDT
You can see the bend while looking down the bore. Even my neighbors wife and my fiance, when told to look down the bore, imediately identified the bend. When compared to another barrel there is definately something wrong.

I have only shot the gun 3 or 4 times since I got it in November. My range does not allow any rapid fire (and they are happy to remind you about it if you forget) so mag dump is out of the question. The barrel has never "smoked" like I've seen in mag dump videos. When shooting it was always suported by the hand guards, not the end of the barrel or anything like that. Gun has never been cased or stored in anything but a hard case with plenty of room and clamping force on all sides.

As you can see, I've eliminated all variables but a poorly crafted barrel.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:53:19 PM EDT
Sounds like you know what you're looking at, now lets see if Stag backs up what they sell.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:45:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:23:42 PM EDT
Please do post back with their response. I just got a Stag upper myself and I hope they back their product.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:53:55 PM EDT
Update 1/4/06:

Mailed the upper to stag today. They responded to my email within 24 hours with instructions to ship it. When it comes back I'll provide a timeline of events and communications.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 7:56:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 8:15:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:22:40 PM EDT
The box looked perfect when I recieved it. The gas tube was also in pristine condition. I honestly think that this barrel just got slightly warped in assembly or when being made and somehow slipped through.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:38:40 PM EDT
got a smith and wesson 3 inch new from the factory with the barrel bent to the left, so it does happen...
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:41:00 PM EDT
I Hope Stag gets everything straightened out for you. I think I've always heard good things about their customer service, and I've been happy with their products. Everybody puts out a bad one from time to time, what matters is that they take care of it in a timely manner.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 8:27:25 AM EDT
This is from the Douglas site. Read down to the 'Grades of barrels" section.

rj

http://www.benchrest.com/douglas/our_barrels.html
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 12:35:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 12:36:19 PM EDT by JackalAR]
Don't mean to hijack, but by mag dump I assume you mean unload a full mag as fast as possible? Is this normally a problem for an AR? I mean, they were originally designed for FA no? My first outing I fired one round per second for 80 rds. and she was a smokin like a sumbitch, but I assumed it was just the lube on the barrel burning off under the HG's. It didn't do this the second outing and it's a 4150 (CMV) middy. The gas tube is nice and heat colored now.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 1:20:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:32:02 AM EDT
I meant like bump-fireing through 5, or 6 beta mags in about 5 minutes.

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Don't mean to hijack, but by mag dump I assume you mean unload a full mag as fast as possible? Is this normally a problem for an AR? I mean, they were originally designed for FA no? My first outing I fired one round per second for 80 rds. and she was a smokin like a sumbitch, but I assumed it was just the lube on the barrel burning off under the HG's. It didn't do this the second outing and it's a 4150 (CMV) middy. The gas tube is nice and heat colored now.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:33:33 PM EDT
Dangasaur,
I got your IM but it was blank. Still waiting to hear from you on how they (Stag) handled it.

For everybody else...

I have a new Stag upper and cannot get it to zero. The arms#40 that came on it is all the way to the right and it is still about 4 inches to the left at 50 yards. The front post is barely hanging on and it is still about 5 inches high at 50 yards. I had my army buddy ("expert" shooter with the m16) with me to try it and his rounds are right there with mine.

At first (from reading other treads) I thought the barrel was over/under tightened and I needed the taller post (which made no sense to me because the #40 came from Stag on the upper).

Then I found this post and it got me to thinking maybe I had a bent barrel. I didn't understand the convex circle in the barrel thing until I looked closly down the barrel from the muzzle end and could see that mine appears bent also. I probably would have thought I was seeing things or being paranoid but it appears to be bent slightly up and to the left. I would post a pic but I don't think it would turn out.

This was my first AR and I'm not happy right now cause I'm gonna have to send it back in to have it looked at. And I'm worried they are probably just gonna send it back saying its fine and I'm gonna be stuck with a bent barrel.

Dangasaur please update us???
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:49:00 PM EDT
The gun is in the mail on its way back to me. On the phone Stag said that they repaired the problem and bore sighted the upper for me. They did not specifically say what the actual problem was that they found only that they addressed it. When it actually arrives I'll test it out and see if the problem is truly resolved.

So far Stag has been nothing but helpful and courteous to me on the phone and email. I'm hoping that everything is fixed for good when the upper arrives.

It was easier comparing one bore to the other as far as what they looked like when looking through them. The 20" Colt upper I looked through seemed VERY straight and uniform. My bore had a giant shadow cast by something between the breech and muzzle (a bend?). Take a drinking straw (or better yet a full sized pixi stick) and look through it. Now put pressure on the center of it causing it to bend slightly, that is the exact picture I saw when looking down my barrel.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:31:51 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:02:25 PM EDT
Dangasaur,

Thanks for the update and please let me know the happenings when you get it back. Did they cover shipping and repair???

In the meantime...here is my small hard to see rendition of what I see looking down the barrel.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b272/Wisbar/barrel2.jpg
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:58:56 AM EDT
I would not worry about Stag's Customer service, they probally have one of the best. I have not heard one bad thing about Stag's Customer service, so I don't think it will be an issue.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:14:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:43:36 AM EDT by Dangasaur]
Yes they aren't charging me for anything as far as I know. They are even overnighting it to me because of a UPS error which they had no control over. So far I am very satisfied.


As far as your picture looks. Try to center the two rings you see on each other. Once they are centered you should see a uniform spiral pattern leading away from you (obviously the rifling). On the 20" upper I looked through this is exactly what I saw. On my upper when I centered the rings I saw a large shaddow in the upper portion of the picture.

EDIT: Just got off the phone with a gunsmith friend of mine who has done lots of contract work and consulting in the M16 field and when I described to him what I saw he immediately identified that as a bent barrel. He said that if you look through the barrel at a white piece of paper you should be able to see an even reflection off the rifling all the way from the muzle to your eye. Any kind of shadow or dead spot is not good.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:26:25 PM EDT
Talked to Jesse at Stag today. He said he has never seen a bend in one of their barrels. He said I would pay shipping in and they would run it thru a straightness gauge and they would pay to ship it back. As far as shadows I dont see any looking at a white wall or piece of paper, just shiny circles (not the twist) that don't appear to line up like I would think they would with a straight barrel. But I don't know it could be some kind of illusion or something. Considering the front sight post (f marked) and arms #40 come on it from Stag, is there any other reason besides bent barrel it would still shoot high and left with the post all the way up and the rear sight all the way to the right?

-I know everybody sees and shoots different and someone else shoot it with same results

-using win Q3131 and Walmart win 40 round VP

-400 rounds thru it so far

Thanks for the help and suggestions
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:30:14 PM EDT
ttt for edit on original post
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:33:59 PM EDT
sounds like a great company to deal with
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