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Posted: 10/10/2005 2:50:46 PM EDT
I built a 20 inch stainless ,1:8 twist ,free-floated, A3 upper from model 1 sales parts. I wasn't expecting very much, but I was very suprised. I mated the upper to a Stag Arms lower and I have to say that it all turned out very very nice. The rifle prints a dime size spread at 35 yds - sorry but that is as far as it has been shot as of right now. I am very pleased and as soon as I can, I will take it to the outdoor range for further testing. By the way, this upper fits very tight to the Stag arms lower reciever, and the quality seems a lot better than the horror stories that I have heard. I even used the Model Sales bolt and carrier assymbly. I have fired 150 rounds through it without a hickup, so I think it will be just fine. I have a Colt A1 upper on a Stag arms lower as well, that has a 1:12 twist chrome line barrel, and the quality of the Model 1 unit is very close to that of the old Colt, maybe even better. My Colt upper was unissued when I came to have it - few marks internally and still soaked in Cosmoline. Just my two cents - hope I have not offended anyone.

P.S. I did assemble the parts myself, so maybe that is where the problems from Model 1 arrive, I don't know, but I would not worry abouth the quality of the parts. They seemed just fine to me. I have assembled ARs from DPMS, Bushmaster, and Colt parts, and to tell you the truth, they are all very similar, so I would go with confidence.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:48:16 PM EDT
Sigh. Prepare to be eviscerated as a Model 1 flunky by the uninformed, unwashed masses. No WAY could you have built a rifle from M1S parts without being blown to bits.

PS - I liked by 6 M1S builds better than my 1 DPMS build. Of course, when you've paid way too much money for generic parts, just to get the label they are sold under, you tend to attack others who have built their rifles for hundreds less.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 5:58:56 PM EDT
If your happy with it, that is all that matters.

Oh, and Welcome
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:17:19 PM EDT
Like I wrote, this is the second I have put together, and it seems to be ok. I have a Colt as I wrote earlier, for those who are adamant about genuine manufacturing, but I honestly see no difference between the actual Model 1 parts quality and those of my Colt upper. I assymbled all the parts myself and found them to fit perfectly and the rifle functions flawlessly. I have only fired Black Hills remanufactured 74 grain ammo through it, so I do not know how it would function with cheaper powders that leave more residue, but no AR likes that anyway. The accuracy is great, so I guess I will just have to wait and see if all the ranting about Model 1 being junk is true or not. I wanted to see for myself, and for the price, what do you have to loose? I do know that the Stag Arms lower is made exceptionally well, even better than DPMS in my opinion, and that is where most of the machine work is critical on an AR, so the rifle should be just fine. This is my opinion that I have come to by building the evil black rifle from the black sheep of manufacturers. I have the god of AR's in the Colt, and I suppose I have the black sheep now as well. I am pleased with both.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 12:49:56 AM EDT
Just don't ask it to be reliable in "Serious" situations is all.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 1:03:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:02:32 AM EDT
I know i live my m1s rifle , i wanted a precision rifle, and that's what i got. 1" group at 100yds with walmart ammo.....can't complain at all. Only 1 FTE so far ,and it seemed that the bullet had been pushed too far into the casing. Not too bad considering with a $200 scope i built it for around $500 less than a armalite/bushmaster/RRA eqivilent.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 5:09:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 3-4CAV:
Sigh. Prepare to be eviscerated as a Model 1 flunky by the uninformed, unwashed masses. No WAY could you have built a rifle from M1S parts without being blown to bits.

PS - I liked by 6 M1S builds better than my 1 DPMS build. Of course, when you've paid way too much money for generic parts, just to get the label they are sold under, you tend to attack others who have built their rifles for hundreds less.



I have to agree, people who post anything positive about non-favored vendors around here tend to get unfairly slammed. Been there, done that. Tends to be especially true if it is a low numbered post. People seem to automatically assume the person must be an astro-turfer who works for the company in question.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 5:19:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
Just don't ask it to be reliable in "Serious" situations is all.




Originally Posted By Tweak:
6 full mags as fast as you can change them out, report back



My M&A kit-built AR on an EA receiver will pass the 6 full mags as fast as I can empty them and change them w/o problems. Of course that is with known good GI mags and Winchester white-box 55gr FMJ ammo. M&A is probably the only company more criticized around here than Model 1, and EA receivers, being cast tend to be universally dismissed as junk by most people.

I've got no reason to assume that a properly assembled Model 1 kit won't do the same. I've heard a fair number of complaints about Model 1, but I've also heard from lots of people who have had no problems. FWIW, a lot of the criticisms of the less expensive vendors seem to come from zealot fans of expensive brands who often have no direct experience with low priced brands, which makes me take them less seriously than I do people who are talking from their own personal experience. I take the complaints from people who are reporting from their own personal (and preferably recent) experience with a given brand more seriously. That goes for expensive brands as well of course.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 7:06:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2005 7:07:00 PM EDT by cbrjc24]

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
Just don't ask it to be reliable in "Serious" situations is all.




Originally posted by Tweak:
6 full mags as fast as you can change them out, report back



I have to ask why I shouldn't ask it to be reliable in serious situations? The rifle functions superbly, and to add, M1S uses the same parts manufacturers as everyone else. I have a DPMS bolt and carrier I had to remove from my Colt upper due to the chrome plating chipping off. I sent it back and got another, so I guess we shouldn't rely on DPMS in a serious situation either huh? As for the 6 full mags as fast as possible, what good is that going to do? It will make your gas tube glow, and advance the powder fowling that AR owners dread, and that is about all it is useful for. If you were in a " serious " situation, you would go more for accuarcy - one shot one kill - and not the 'pray and spray' theory. I served in the US military in recent engagements and we are taught to conserve ammunition and to make accurate, terminal shots ie. center of mass. From my personal experience, this nations adversaries currently use the 'pray and spray' theory, and it has often gotten them killed. Now back to the issue at hand. This rifle has a stainless, 1:8 twist, 20" barreled, freefloated upper reciever. What part of that description says this rifle was built for the dooms day event that every one seems to be looking forward to instead of trying to prevent? This rifle was built for the range, heavy bullets, a big scope, and a pair of bench rests. I think it will serve that purpose just fine. If I have to defend my home and myself, I will use the A1 Colt, as it is much lighter in weight - even lighter than an A2, and has a chrome lined barrel and chamber which is much more useful than the stainless. Sorry for the soap box in the you build it thread, but lighten up folks, not every AR is built for militant action. And no I do not work for M1S either.
Link Posted: 10/11/2005 9:21:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
Just don't ask it to be reliable in "Serious" situations is all.



Parts is parts. Built over 10 mutts all with "crap" parts. Never had a problem but with one Colt bolt carrier (ironic or is it?) All my builds are 100% reliable and accurate. I would go take any of my crap to war unlike the POS Colts in ROTC. I'm not saying Colts are bad, just reliability has to do with much more than a name.

Link Posted: 10/11/2005 9:37:13 PM EDT
shit man... post some pics!!!

In all seriousness, do what tweak said.

The only problem I've had was with a model 1 kit was a tight chamber. When it got hot, it would fail to extract. The chamber was really tight and would constrict enough that it would not extract. So tight the extractor would rip the rim off the case and the case would be in the chmber. My buddy bought the rifle from me and he paid like $40 to have the chamber polished and it has been good to go ever since.


Link Posted: 10/11/2005 11:09:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KJB:

Originally Posted By ColSanders:
Just don't ask it to be reliable in "Serious" situations is all.



Parts is parts. Built over 10 mutts all with "crap" parts. Never had a problem but with one Colt bolt carrier (ironic or is it?) All my builds are 100% reliable and accurate. I would go take any of my crap to war unlike the POS Colts in ROTC. I'm not saying Colts are bad, just reliability has to do with much more than a name.




Parts are not parts.

If you've seen and compared the parts I've seen from M1 with other manufacturers, you'd sing a different tune. I am not making this up. Nothing model 1 has done has impressed me at all, and rarely have they been on par with the quality of other manufacturers.

You don't have to believe me. I honestly don't care. I've warned you to be nice, and now I get rebuked for what I've said. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

You get what you pay for, and when you buy from the bottom feeder, you get the bottom feeder.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 7:13:21 AM EDT

Parts are not parts.

If you've seen and compared the parts I've seen from M1 with other manufacturers, you'd sing a different tune. I am not making this up. Nothing model 1 has done has impressed me at all, and rarely have they been on par with the quality of other manufacturers.

You don't have to believe me. I honestly don't care. I've warned you to be nice, and now I get rebuked for what I've said. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

You get what you pay for, and when you buy from the bottom feeder, you get the bottom feeder.



For refrence sake........I have compared my m1s parts to bushmaster's parts and don't see a difference really. Its widely known that m1s and bushmaster order their parts off the same company. Now , if that's true , it might lead someone to believe they're paying for a name rather more so than a gun. I'm not bashing bushmasters , colts or the like , but I don't see how someone wanting to go with something 'cheaper' automaticly means they know nothing about ar15s and quality.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 1:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mrstickball:

Parts are not parts.

If you've seen and compared the parts I've seen from M1 with other manufacturers, you'd sing a different tune. I am not making this up. Nothing model 1 has done has impressed me at all, and rarely have they been on par with the quality of other manufacturers.

You don't have to believe me. I honestly don't care. I've warned you to be nice, and now I get rebuked for what I've said. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

You get what you pay for, and when you buy from the bottom feeder, you get the bottom feeder.



For refrence sake........I have compared my m1s parts to bushmaster's parts and don't see a difference really. Its widely known that m1s and bushmaster order their parts off the same company. Now , if that's true , it might lead someone to believe they're paying for a name rather more so than a gun. I'm not bashing bushmasters , colts or the like , but I don't see how someone wanting to go with something 'cheaper' automaticly means they know nothing about ar15s and quality.



You obviously don't know the whole truth and do not know the difference between quality and crap. No offense meant, but you just don't have a clue.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 2:19:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GackMan:
shit man... post some pics!!!

In all seriousness, do what tweak said.

The only problem I've had was with a model 1 kit was a tight chamber. When it got hot, it would fail to extract. The chamber was really tight and would constrict enough that it would not extract. So tight the extractor would rip the rim off the case and the case would be in the chmber. My buddy bought the rifle from me and he paid like $40 to have the chamber polished and it has been good to go ever since.





M1S offers 2 chamber sizes. If the rifle you speak of was chambered for .223, and hot mil spec 5.56 was used, that would explain the binding problem. I know the difference between .223 and 5.56 is very small, but it does matter depending on the load of the round. I have found that the rifles chambered for 5.56 will eat all 5.56 and .223, where the .223 chamber sometimes has problems with mil spec ammo. That would be a mistake when ordering, and not with quality. Col Sanders, I hear you, but have you actually ever laid your hands on some of the equipment you call inferior, or are you just reciting hear say? I was a huge Colt believer, especially after my military time, and I still am, but this rifle is pretty slick. I have fired the M16 quite a lot - Marines get the 16 while the Army gets the M4 - and let me tell you, if you were to pick up one of our issue weapons, you would swear it would fall apart or blow up in your face because they were so loose and worn out. It is possible to get a lemon with anything, but that does not mean the company only turns out junk. If you have not actually used any of the other guys parts, like the old saying says, don't knock it until you've tried it, and that is exactly what I did. Hey, if we all wanted original parts, we would have to buy Armalite, because they were after all the original. That said, Armalite lost the military contract because Colt under bid them. I guess that means that our military goes by the lowest bidder and not the best quality. Kinda sounds like the argument here about Colt vs M1S...... I think these pics will work - M1S w/ dettachable sights - still waiting on scope, and the Colt/Stag Arms piece - yes I know about the A2 handle - still waiting for the A1.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/cbrjc24/000_0378.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/cbrjc24/000_0360.jpg
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 3:28:19 PM EDT
I'd be curious to hear the range report on the accuracy after you get to shoot it outside. I'm thinking about getting a varmint or target AR upper here shortly and was thinking about another RRA, but this may work just as well.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 4:18:12 PM EDT
I have to admit my first experience with M1S was less than stellar, but I decided to forgive them for their poor service in the past and placed an order for an M4 kit in 6.8 SPC a couple months ago. I had it in 2 days and it performed flawlessly right out of the box and hasn't missed a beat since.

I also have built mutts, and as long as you put them together properly they seem to work great. The only problems I've had were magazine related. I buy a lot of cheap used gun show mags, so I just weed them out.

My 6.8 has only got a red dot on it, but it will print under 1" at 50 yards with a 110 grain Hornade v-max over 28.8 grains of Benchmark! The only thing that sucks is the short barrel cuts my velocity down to just over 2400... :(

I guess I better build a M1S 20" 6.8 next time, huh? ;)

btw... my problem with them last time was their service, but it was during their move. I don't think their quality is stellar, but very good for the price.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 6:18:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 6:21:07 PM EDT by cbrjc24]

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
I'd be curious to hear the range report on the accuracy after you get to shoot it outside. I'm thinking about getting a varmint or target AR upper here shortly and was thinking about another RRA, but this may work just as well.



I am planning to go out this weekend to the outdoor range. I will gladly post pics of the targets after my outing. I will shoot it with the iron sights, as I don't think the scope will be here by then. By the way, this is just a standard upper with the stainless heavy barrel option in a 1:8 twist. I upgraded to the freefloat and front sight base gas block as well.
Link Posted: 10/12/2005 8:08:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2005 8:10:16 PM EDT by ColSanders]
cbrjc24,

I've said this several times, I HAVE SEEN THE DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY BETWEEN MODEL 1 AND OTHER AR'S. There is a difference. I have seen it first hand. I am not just repeating what I've "heard".

FWIW, The military uses the lowest bidder who qualifies. Like RRA in the DEA selection process. They were the lowest bidder, but they still beat out the other test subjects.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 11:25:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2005 11:26:16 AM EDT by GackMan]

Originally Posted By cbrjc24:

Originally Posted By GackMan:
shit man... post some pics!!!

In all seriousness, do what tweak said.

The only problem I've had was with a model 1 kit was a tight chamber. When it got hot, it would fail to extract. The chamber was really tight and would constrict enough that it would not extract. So tight the extractor would rip the rim off the case and the case would be in the chmber. My buddy bought the rifle from me and he paid like $40 to have the chamber polished and it has been good to go ever since.





M1S offers 2 chamber sizes. If the rifle you speak of was chambered for .223, and hot mil spec 5.56 was used, that would explain the binding problem. I know the difference between .223 and 5.56 is very small, but it does matter depending on the load of the round. I have found that the rifles chambered for 5.56 will eat all 5.56 and .223, where the .223 chamber sometimes has problems with mil spec ammo. That would be a mistake when ordering, and not with quality.



Oh, I know the difference - I ordered a 5.56. So something may have been screwed up along the way. But I don't think that was it. The chamber war rough, the chamber was polished by a gunsmith and the problem went away.

I usually had to fire 50+ rounds for it to manifest itself.

Link Posted: 10/13/2005 3:39:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 5:17:41 PM EDT
model 1 was good to me!

great customer service.
Link Posted: 10/13/2005 9:53:31 PM EDT
Also, another point that should be made.

ARMALITE IS NOT THE SAME ARMALITE OF OLD!! Armalite sold the design to Colt and the name "armalite" was eventually bought by eagle arms.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 4:31:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2005 4:47:06 AM EDT by K9-Bob]
cbrjc24,

Thank you for your service to our country. I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I have dealt with both Model 1 and M&A Parts at local gun shows over the past 17 years. I remember the days when both would sell barreled uppers that had the front sight bases held on with roll pins, but it seems of late that the quality of parts is par with other vendors. I've often wondered if they used "seconds", or Chinese parts, but I have never bought a bad barrel or other part from either one of them. I am not a metallurgist, but I find it hard telling the difference between their parts and those from other sources. I know that they are both related to Drasen=Nesard=Sendra fame, so they have been around a very long time.

For peace of mind, I would buy an upper from a known and trusted vendor. I really do think you get what you pay for. My duty weapons are Colt, Bushmaster and Rock River Arms and have only used the Model 1 and M&A parts for my fun guns. Having said that, if your rifle shoots as well as you say it does, then shoot it till it wears it out. Who cares what the "Gun Store Commandos" say? Everyone here has something akin to the "Ford vs. Chevy" loyalty when it comes to guns and mentioning Model 1 or M&A will bring you nothing but heartache. There is an awful lot of regurgitation of “fairytales” and falsehoods, but who's to say that Model 1 and M&A aren’t getting their parts from CMT or other reputable sources. I remember a few years back M&A told me that their parts were of FN origin, but again there was no way for me to tell for sure.

I've often wondered if some of the parts sold on the Equipment Exchange came from Model 1 or M&A and some how miraculously transforms into CMT, Colt, RRA, DPMS, or Bushmaster ....LOL when it was time to sell them. I know there is lots of "snake oil" sold and the buyer really should beware when it comes time to make a choice on what they buy. I've carried a gun every day for the past 26 years of my professional life. I can honestly say one thing for sure.......Murphy was an optimist. If you life depends on it, make sure you don't go cheap.

You have a nice looking rifle cbrjc24 and I hope it gives you years of enjoyment.
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 12:24:23 PM EDT
I love my M1S build! I have repeatedly done the (6 mags dumped as fast as you can) type of test with no problems (except sone serious heat). I know there have been problems for some peole but I will probably build another!
Link Posted: 10/14/2005 7:00:12 PM EDT
K9-Bob you are more than welcome, and it was an experience that I will never be able to forget. This rifle was a simple cheap fun gun build up, and from what I've seen, anyone who deviates from the norm on this site gets hammered by the same group of people. I built a cheap range gun for some fun and as bonus it happens to be accurate. As for when the shtf, my Colt manufactured Marine issue M16 failed me twice. Both times were under heavy fire with a failure to extract, which resulted in a nice jam. Not much fun as you can imagine. It is a simple mil spec powder problem. The mil spec stuff is not clean enough and during rapid fire, the heat makes the residue turn to stone. That is a design flaw of the AR type rifle, just like the stamped reciever is a flaw of the Ak. I have a friend from high school in the Rangers who carries into combat a modified M16 that uses an old Nat Guard select fire lower with a match trigger, stainless heavy 18 inch barrel with A3 flat top upper. Only the 'snipers' or DM deployed to Afganistan carry these from what I am told. Point to be made, they use ammo supplied by Black Hills and he says he has never had any problem with his rifle under any condition. I would spend more money on good ammo rather than the cheap mil spec stuff, simply because I have experienced it under the worst conditions possible - 100 + temps, sand, and sustained fire for what seemed like a lifetime. Any way, I am not telling any one what to buy, just showing one of the rifles I built for some fun.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:43:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:13:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By cbrjc24:
I served in the US military in recent engagements



yippeee



Napoleon's kitchen mule participated in a hundred campaigns.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:07:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 3:09:00 PM EDT by Mdripley]
I guess nobody noticed the rifle with the detachable Front sight installed backwards, nice rifle anyway good job and good luck with your new rifle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:41:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:58:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ColSanders:

Originally Posted By mrstickball:

Parts are not parts.

If you've seen and compared the parts I've seen from M1 with other manufacturers, you'd sing a different tune. I am not making this up. Nothing model 1 has done has impressed me at all, and rarely have they been on par with the quality of other manufacturers.

You don't have to believe me. I honestly don't care. I've warned you to be nice, and now I get rebuked for what I've said. I don't have a dog in this hunt.

You get what you pay for, and when you buy from the bottom feeder, you get the bottom feeder.



For refrence sake........I have compared my m1s parts to bushmaster's parts and don't see a difference really. Its widely known that m1s and bushmaster order their parts off the same company. Now , if that's true , it might lead someone to believe they're paying for a name rather more so than a gun. I'm not bashing bushmasters , colts or the like , but I don't see how someone wanting to go with something 'cheaper' automaticly means they know nothing about ar15s and quality.



You obviously don't know the whole truth and do not know the difference between quality and crap. No offense meant, but you just don't have a clue.



Just out of curiousity, what parts on the Model 1 kits do you consider "crap"?

Also, who is your favorite manufacturer? Thanks. You seem to be the residential expert here so I know you can help.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:59:36 PM EDT
I was shooting rifle with a Model 1 16" barrel at a match Saturday. I was doing so bad during the last stage of four at 75 and 100 yards that I started to wish it would malfunction. But no luck. It ran thorugh a couple of 30 rounders with out choking. All I got was a bad score and a black knuckle from the gas leaking out at the front sight base.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:02:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
I was shooting rifle with a Model 1 16" barrel at a match Saturday. I was doing so bad during the last stage of four at 75 and 100 yards that I started to wish it would malfunction. But no luck. It ran thorugh a couple of 30 rounders with out choking. All I got was a bad score and a black knuckle from the gas leaking out at the front sight base.



So, did the rifle not shoot acurately or did you not shoot acurately?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:22:39 PM EDT

So, did the rifle not shoot acurately or did you not shoot acurately?

Since I shoot poorly I have no way to tell how my rifles shoot.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:43:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:

So, did the rifle not shoot acurately or did you not shoot acurately?

Since I shoot poorly I have no way to tell how my rifles shoot.



You ought to put that rifle on sandbags and shoot a few groups with good ammo...just to make sure it's you and not the rifle with the problem.

I need practice myself. This weekend, I dumped damned near half a mag with my model 1 to kill a running rabbit
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:30:19 PM EDT
This sickens me to see a post where someone has built a rifle that he is obviousley proud of and pleased with its proformance. And some members who are quite respected for your opinions (I dont know why) feel the need to ragg on this guy because he didnt spend his kids college fund in order to build a new toy. WTF? Hey man that is a nice rifle. It is the responsibility of the builder to be the final quality control inspector, troubleshooter and return any parts that arent up to snuff. I have used parts from every manufacturer and they all have a coustomer service department. Ever wonder Why? Congradulations on a great looking build !!! I hope you get a boatload of grins out of it.

13 AR-15 mutts
1 AR-10 mutt

Oly ,Eagle, 80%,bushy, colt, RRA,PWA, Model1,M&A,Foulton,Dpms and even Sherluk. The only problems I have ever had were only due to my ignorance at the time.


THIS IS ALL ABOUT LEARNING BY DOING THE BUILD IT YOURSELF FORUM.
IGNORANCE IS CURABLE STUBBRON AND STUPID IS LIFELONG.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:18:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:23:01 AM EDT by persimmonpete]
You guys are exactly right about folks who knock others' pride and joy. Hey, maybe if it was yours, someone might want to take a shot at your efforts too!

BTW...someone mentioned RRA as being the lowest price bidder. I spent many long years in the defense industry and guys the "lowest bid" is simply a myth. I can spot an amateur a mile away anytime they quote that foolishness. You ought to try to get anything - and I mean anything - to pass mil-spec QC and then come back and talk to me about "low bid." I designed/built guidance systems for nuclear ballistic missles for the Navy and TERCOM and Paveway systems for the USAF. I know about low bids. Anybody knocks a military contract winner because it is "the lowest bidder" simply hasn't a clue.

I really don't want to start a war here, but why are you price=quality guys not rushing out to buy Les Baer or JP stuff? I'm not knocking these fine folks, but it seems to me that if you really do get what you pay for, then somebody should be paying a lot more that they are right now.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:25:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:41:21 AM EDT
I agree...to a point. In the case of some of the stuff I built at first I didn't see the need for such tough specs and testing. Then someone asked me if I'd like it coming back at me when they launched it. hat
Now I'll get flamed by the Chinese!!!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:22:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:06:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 9:11:54 AM EDT by monkeyman]
nevermind.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 9:11:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By persimmonpete:
When your life - and more importantly, the live of lots of others, depend on it working first time, every time, then the specs and testing begin to fit the picture better.



when national defense, the preservation of this nation, hangs in the balance, I would hope they make good choices.



I think my Model 1 POS AR is well suited to defend me against allien invaders and zombies. I am over 50 and have managed to survive so far.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:33:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 11:18:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By modog:

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By cbrjc24:
I served in the US military in recent engagements



yippeee



Napoleon's kitchen mule participated in a hundred campaigns.



And sadly, that's probably more service than either of you two have given...
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