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Posted: 10/25/2003 7:47:45 PM EDT
I'm going to sell my post ban HK91 and join the AR15 world.

I want this version AR15:

M4A1
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4a1.jpg

Bushmaster Has this which is close enough:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/bush_PCWA2X%2014M4MY.bmp
But it costs nearly $800, or should I just build using This upper

http://www.model1sales.com/images/m4uppersub.gif

and this lower

http://www.carricozarmory.com/images/stingercar.jpg

Building would be a little under $100 cheaper. Also, do any other companies sell m4A1 rifles in that style?
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 8:26:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2003 8:29:39 PM EDT by watertower]
It appears that you are fairly new to AR15.com, welcome. Hopefully you've been reading a lot. I spent about a month reading posts before I bought anything, I should have waited longer. There are many companies that make what you are looking for. Check the Industry page for links. As for the build versus buy debate, I bought a stripped lower and a kit and put mine together. As I said before, I should have read more, I would have gone a different route with the kit. If you do decide to build one, you should be able to save much more than $100. If you like tinkering with guns, putting a kit together is a lot of fun and you learn about the workings of the rifle, at least the lower. From what I've seen and heard you can't go wrong buying a Bushmaster. It's all personal preference. Good luck and keep us informed. Scott Thought I should add a couple things. Rock River Arms isn't listed on the industry page. They have a reputation for making great rifles. Also, if you build, read everything you can about the different kit vendors before you buy. There are many posts about the various companies, J&T, Model 1, M&A...
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 9:44:26 PM EDT
Welcome to the board Variable. You might want to check out the Equipment Exchange. The prices listed are pretty much indicative of prices you would encounter elswhere, and you can compare price of build v buy. Also consider the source of the parts, as with everything else, cheap usually means exactly that. If your just going to mix and match upper and lower, I don't think you will save that much over a complete rifle. I own Bushys as well as Colts, and Eagles, so I will vouch for the quality of any of those.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 1:54:46 AM EDT
Building would be a little under $100 cheaper. Also, do any other companies sell m4A1 rifles in that style?
View Quote
Colt sells one, they call it the M4 carbine: [img]http://www.colt.com/CMCI/images/MTM4_BIG.jpg[/img] The Colt model number is MT6400C. I've had mine for about two months and I love it [:)]
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 7:57:09 AM EDT
You pose the question, "build or buy, which is better"... I say buying a complete gun is "Better", because it will carry the full warranrty of the company (Bushmaster) and it will have a higher re-sale value than a "parts kit gun" Also, if at all possible, try one of those fixed/phony adjustable stocks. To me, they are very uncomfortable to shoot with. YMMV. Too bad you have to sell the HK to get the AR...
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:30:58 AM EDT
Between your 2 choices, I'd get the Bushy for the extra $100 because it has the chrome-lined barrel.My 2nd AR was a RRA stripped lower that I bought for $100 and RRA chrome-lined M4 upper that I bought for $465 with RRA Enhanced bolt.Then I put a complete Cav Arms C1 stock on it that I paid $55 for and then ordered a DPMS lower parts kit from Brownells for $45 with my trade discount.$665 + the $25 transfer fee for the lower.[url]www.adcofirearms.com[/url] seems to have better prices on RRA rifles/uppers/lowers than I paid and you can built your own AR on their website.It's worth checking into.As stated before, stay clear of cheap parts especially the cheap lower parts made with stamped parts.Stick with DPMS(minimum), RRA or preferably BM or Colt if you plan on ever using the rifle to save your life.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:56:22 AM EDT
I actually dont need to sell the HK91, but 7.62 NATO is just overkill for my purposes. Too much recoil, rifle is heavy, cant carry as much ammo, and I dont consider 7.62 x 51 to be a real viable HD cartridge because it's maybe too powerful. 5.56 is more than enough for my purposes. I also dont want to support more than 2 calibers at this time. I noticed the colt last night, and it is exactly what I'm looking for, but the price tag is steep. I'm trying to keep total price as near as possible to $700 and only by mixing and matching parts can I get to that price point. So far Model 1 is the main kit company I'm considering for the upper. People on this board have had mostly positive experiances with them. The lower I'm still debating...Mega seems to make a good lower, but so does Rock River...too many options in the AR15 world
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 1:54:33 PM EDT
You may want to look at cdnninvestments.com for Bushmasters. I had a hard copy of their catalog awhile back and they listed Bushmasters cheaper than I have seen anywhere else. Just a thought if you decide to buy a complete rifle. Scott
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 3:21:16 PM EDT
Variable, My suggestion would be to buy a complete rifle like the Colt 6400c or the Bushmaster for your first AR. Then you could spend some more time researching and hunting for the exact parts you want for you second AR. Oh wait, I forgot to tell you...you can't own just one [:D] You see, they are addicting and so one will never be enough. Neither will 7. Buy you first one complete and build you next one. You'll have fun, get a sense of accomplishment, learn a ton and add another black rifle in the process. HTH - Marc
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 8:12:05 AM EDT
Get a copy of the shotgun news the COLT MT6400C can be had for $899.00 and it is a COLT with COLT resale value .the MT 6400c has all the googies 5150 barrel ,chrome lined barrel and chamber real M4 feed ramps and the best out of the box AR you can buy look at the EE on this sight the used COLTS always sell for more .I have 5 colts and 2 RRA 2 armalites and 2 BUSHMASTERS ,they are all good but the cost of the COLT is not that much more .
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 10:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/27/2003 10:59:49 AM EDT by Variablebinary]
I found the Bushmaster M4 Carbine W/Mini Y-Comp A2 for $779. Best price I've seen thus far. [img]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/bush_PCWA2X%2014M4MY.bmp[/img] Unless anyone objects or can recommend something better, odds are this is what I will trade my HK91 for. I'll miss the .308. I'm still open to suggestions though... Owning a true blue colt would be awesome, but the extra hundred bucks is a lot for a working class stiff like myself. that is extra mags and ammo as well...
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 1:05:35 PM EDT
Cant go wrong with a BUSHMASTER check AIM or CDNN for price .
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 2:49:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Variablebinary: I found the Bushmaster M4 Carbine W/Mini Y-Comp A2 for $779. Best price I've seen thus far. [url]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/bush_PCWA2X%2014M4MY.bmp[/url] Unless anyone objects or can recommend something better, odds are this is what I will trade my HK91 for. I'll miss the .308. I'm still open to suggestions though... Owning a true blue colt would be awesome, but the extra hundred bucks is a lot for a working class stiff like myself. that is extra mags and ammo as well...
View Quote
Good choice.You'll only cry once [^]
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 8:49:07 AM EDT
i would humbly suggest thinkg about getting a complete kit instead of buying a complete lower and a complete upper. model 1 sells the post ban m4gery kit for $485 then you can buy an Eagle Arms stripped lower for $85 and youve got a complete m4gery for less than $600. [flame retardant] there IS of course the chrome lined issue but to me if you clean, its not an issue [flame retardant] (thats all i have to say about that) i would always recomend building over just buying a complete rifle, theres no better way to get to know your gun... and building can become a rewarding hobby in itself.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 8:34:44 PM EDT
With fine taste like yours, Better: The Factory Bushy, especially since it's your first and only. However, there is a lot of enjoyment, pride, and satisfaction to building your own. Get the Bushy, then think about building the next one (yes, there will be more, resistance is futile!). I have multi thousand dollar rigs, but the one I enjoy shooting the most is my sub $500 homebuilt!
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 12:26:00 AM EDT
I'm tempted to build, but I wont know what the hell I'm doing which is why I'm leaning toward the brain dead route and just buying. Is it rocket science or am I being paranoid about rifle building. I keep having visions of a KB and me having to get fingers reattached... Three noob questions about building: 1. Are chrome lined barrels totally important that I need to get it. 2. Are there ever any instances of an upper not fitting a lower by either being too tight or loose? 3. Can uppers by companies like J&T, Model 1, and M&A be as trusted and reliable as an upper by RRA, Bushmaster, DPMS or Olympic Arms?
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 4:33:37 AM EDT
dude, im a friggin retard, but i built an ar15 in less than an hour and it went together without a hitch. i bought a usmc manual, some punches and a brass hammer, and printed the dierctions on the homepage here and thats all i needed. my rifle has had ONE malfunction out of about 1300 rds and that was ammo related. to answer your questions: 1) thats a matter of opinion really. IMHO, no. you dont. just clean your gun after each use. 2) never heard of an upper being TOO tight or TOO loose, but a little loose or a little tight can happen. although tight is a good thing. [;)] loose could be fixed w/ a tensioning pin. 3) i got an RRA upper but most here who have uppers form these Co.'s say good things about them. i think most would agree that J&T is the best. i built my first and only AR and since then i have not bought a ready built gun.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 9:32:46 AM EDT
Ok if you want the BUSHMASTER than CDNN is running the BUSHMASTER 16 INCH M4 a2 for $749.99
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 9:11:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/29/2003 9:14:02 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By Variablebinary: I'm going to sell my post ban HK91 and join the AR15 world. I want this version AR15: M4A1 [url]http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4a1.jpg[/url] Bushmaster Has this which is close enough: [url]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/bush_PCWA2X%2014M4MY.bmp[/url] But it costs nearly $800, or should I just build using This upper [url]http://www.model1sales.com/images/m4uppersub.gif[/url] and this lower [url]http://www.carricozarmory.com/images/stingercar.jpg[/url] Building would be a little under $100 cheaper. Also, do any other companies sell m4A1 rifles in that style?
View Quote
Depends whether you want the warranty or the build experience. I did both and will build my next one. Don't sell your HK91 if it is a true H&K, just save your pennies and add the AR to your collection. You will regret selling at some later point, as they are no longer importing Heckler & Koch HK91s, only clones like Century's examples will be available. The HK91 is a fine rifle.
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