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Posted: 10/15/2003 8:56:08 PM EDT
Not sure what forum this goes best in, but I'll stick it here. Sorry if its been asked before, but I didn't see it in any searches.

Anywho, with the Sunset potentially coming, I'm considering picking up a real non-pinned telestock before everyone decides to jack up prices to take advantage of us poor AR nuts. Question is, since the ban hasn't gone away yet, am I allowed to possess the stock in combination with having a postban AR? (not talking installing here...I'll have a little party the day the ban goes away to do that)

I recall there's an issue with having M16 parts and owning an AR15; is this the same with the stock? I imagine them cooking up some "intent to produce an illegal assault weapon" or something. I have no desire to spend a couple years in a federal pounding-in-the-ass prison to save a couple bucks. Thoughts? Is this a "buy it and give it to a friend to hold on to" situation? Or even a "wait and see" event?
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 3:22:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2003 3:22:40 PM EDT by techbrute]
It's one of those things, "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." If they decide to cook up an "intent" charge on you, what will it cost you to fight it in time, money, and reputation? If the ban sunsets, you'll see prices dropping, not going up. People will be able to choose any type of stock they want. I'm hoping that Magpul stocks come down in price once their market opens up. Even at current prices, I'd buy one for every one of my AR, but I only have one preban.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 9:15:07 AM EDT
I asked the same question in the rifles, uppers, etc. forum. Troy said owning a telestock would probably be okay, but not a "pre-ban" upper. I think maybe just after the ban sunsets, prices on the stocks may go up, as everyone runs out to slap one on their "post-ban." They will probably settle down to normal after a while, and then go down as they increase production.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 9:48:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By techbrute: If the ban sunsets, you'll see prices dropping, not going up. People will be able to choose any type of stock they want.
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I am going to have to respectfully disagree. Simple supply and demand. The demand will go through the roof in Sept. and so will the prices. Having a couple of boxes of parts pre or post is not illegal. Just as long as those parts will not make the rifle go bang more than once per trigger pull. Jan. 1st. I plan on buying everything for my new rifles to be put together in Sept.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 12:01:00 PM EDT
IIRC, what Troy said was that it was his opinion that telestocks, barrels, etc. were OK while a preban upper was not. The reasoning was that it takes specialized tools to install the telestock on the lower and the barrel on the upper, i.e. wrenches and so forth, whereas anyone could swap out an upper within a few seconds. (Troy, if I mistated what you meant, please correct me) That reasoning seems reasonable, but you need to ask two questions: 1. How bad do you need a telestock on Sept. 1st, 2004 and 2. Is it worth risking a court case. I too would love to have a telestock ready for Sept. 1, 2004 (I think we should just start calling it "Gun freedom day or something!) but judged that I would rather err on the side of safety and NOT buy one even if it means a for a few months after Sept. I wouldn't want to be the chump who is in court for two years over a silly $60 telestock while the rest of you are out there installing them legally [;)]
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 5:57:36 PM EDT
Well, you all can work on putting colapsable stocks, I'm planning on putting together a "true" AR pistol. But forget the 7.5" barrel...I'd go 10". And the good thing is, w/ a true AR pistol, I can put 9mm kit on it [:D]. Oh well...I can dream. I just hope it does sun set and I can put one together.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:32:50 PM EDT
Everyone will have to make their own decision on this. Personally, I would pay the extra $20 they may cost later to avoid the opportunity for anyone to use a poor intrepretation of the law against you. However, for someone who wants to prep for post-ban times, the risk is negligble. Look at the SEBR forum about Armalite's Post-Post ban rifle program -- they'll be sending out flash hiders and information kits to registered owners in advance of the sunset if expiration is imminent, so you can pop it on 9/14 if you're so inclined. If Armalite doesn't see liability in this, I don't see it either. They'll even sell telestocks 'in advance' when the time is right! if the gov is out to get you, they will. If they don't find something wrong with your guns, they'll find something. Did you mailorder anything last year? I'm sure you claimed your local sales tax on your year end and paid the state, right? You don't want to evade taxes. You don't own more poker chips than you need, do you? Or 50 decks of cards? Conspiracy to operate an illegal gambling establishment is not good. (God forbid you have even a legal slot machine in your game room). I'm sure if one chose to stock preban parts in anticipation of a ban sunset and didn't give the gov a reason to check in on them, it'd likely be a negligible risk. However, some interpretations of the law indicate that the ownership of 1 post ban AR (complete) and one pre ban AR (complete) gives the gov the opportunity to claim you are possession the pieces to assemble an illegal configuration. I myself am squeaky clean. I am 100% postban and satisfied for now. If you want to eliminate all risk of a violation, this is the only 100% risk free position to take. Like driving over the speed limit, you must gauge your sense of the level of risk and the benefits of ownership and make your own decision. -Dan PS -- Even in MI, I was considering buying a FAB10 so I could get a preban styled rifle for fun. I decided not to because of the cost (A $300 receiver?), but I know owning both would create that miniscule risk I mentioned. Like you, if the ban stays, I'll have to make a decision. Likewise, when I finally purchase a M16 under my C&R (the legal route in MI), I'll have to decide wether or not to shake loose all my semi-auto rifles for the same reason...I'd technically have all the parts to assemble an illegal config. I know a guy with 5 uppers for his M16. 7.5"ers, 9mm, 22lr, 10.5"er, etc. He only has one receiver. He understands the risk and made his choice, and uses them only in legal configs. Right or wrong, it's his decision.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:25:34 PM EDT
Wow, I had given up my topic for dead. Thanks for the replies everyone. As usual AR15.com proves itself to have the best gun forums around. Probably going to do what I see suggested, wait until prices normalize (if they do anything crazy) and then mess with it. Think I'll start collecting parts to put together an A2-style lower for now. Then get that "terrible" "attractive to criminals" pre-ban upper on/about Gun Freedom Day and make me a nice rifle. Random note, but you notice how those studies always say assault-style weapons are attractive to criminals? If you showed me (a hypothetical thug) a picture of, oh say, a Marlin .44 lever action and an AR-15, what do you think I will find more attractive (as a thug)? (I like Marlin .44s, don't get me wrong.) Doesn't mean crap about whether or not I (the thug) could afford an AR-15. I bet those studies are real scientific like that.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:36:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Findsman: Wow, I had given up my topic for dead. Thanks for the replies everyone. As usual AR15.com proves itself to have the best gun forums around.
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Dead? None of the posts are more than a day apart. I have to agree that this is a very helpful forum. If I don't ask a question myself, someone else will usually bring it up.
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