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Posted: 8/25/2003 9:29:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 10:24:40 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
This is my first AR. I have an RRA buffer 6-position buffer tube. I screw it on per the instructions. As the buffer tube comes in contact with the buffer retainer it pushes it down slightly. Is this a problem? Do I need to file off a little bit of my buffer tube? Thank you.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:32:21 AM EDT
As long as the retainer still retains! It should certainly not contact the wider part of the retainer. As the force from the buffer is in axis with the barrel, how does it "push it down slightly"?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:38:49 AM EDT
Well the retainer's retaining point is sloped, it's not a perfect 90 degree angle, so as the buffer is screwed on it pushes it down slightly until it's finally in contact with the post in a perpendicular fasion and won't screw in anymore. However, this does push the retainer down in to it's hole a couple/three millimeters. Is this a problem?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 9:47:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 9:49:10 AM EDT by fizassist]
Originally Posted By Boomholzer: As long as the retainer still retains! It should certainly not contact the wider part of the retainer.
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Yep, it should keep the retainer in place but not get stuck against the narrow pin of the retainer.
As the force from the buffer is in axis with the barrel, how does it "push it down slightly"?
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Since the retainer is slightly tapered at the base of the narrow part (acting as a wedge), the buffer tube will push the retainer down ever so slightly as it is screwed in. At least this is the case on my lowers. Edited to add: ya beat me to it, wyv3rn. [:)]
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 10:23:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 10:24:25 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Here it is with the buffer not screwed in all the way: [img]http://www.mti-security.com/up1.jpg[/img] Here it is with the buffer screwed in all the way: [img]http://www.mti-security.com/down1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.mti-security.com/down2.jpg[/img] Notice the extra space as the retainer has been pushed down a bit.
Yep, it should keep the retainer in place but not get stuck against the narrow pin of the retainer.
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What do you mean? You mean the retainer should not get stuck against the buffer and not go down? I don't quite understand.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:24:44 AM EDT
Looking at the PICs it appears that you are missing the receiver end plate. That fits between the buffer tube and the lower and acts to hold in the take down retainer and spring. Some aftermarket ones are fitted with a sling slot. If this part is missing, this is what is causing your problem.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:29:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 11:32:04 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By TAC40: Looking at the PICs it appears that you are missing the receiver end plate. That fits between the buffer tube and the lower and acts to hold in the take down retainer and spring. Some aftermarket ones are fitted with a sling slot.
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No, the plate is there. It's the ring on the buffer tube, between the receiver and the buffer tube locking ring.
If this part is missing, this is what is causing your problem.
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Do I have a problem? Are you confirming that this (buffer tube against buffer retainer) is infact a problem or is this perfectly ok and normal?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:36:55 AM EDT
Can you push the retainer in to remove the buffer without re-loosening the buffer tube? Is is jammed tight? If the buffer tube is bottoming on the retainer and not the backside, that is bad. In other words, if the retainer was not there, could you tighten it more?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:46:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 11:48:07 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By Boomholzer: Can you push the retainer in to remove the buffer without re-loosening the buffer tube? Is is jammed tight?
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It's pretty tight, there's a lot more resistance to it going down.
If the buffer tube is bottoming on the retainer and not the backside, that is bad. In other words, if the retainer was not there, could you tighten it more?
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_Maybe_ 1 more turn. I thought this was fine though? I've seen pics of other people's AR-15's with the threads sticking out behind their locking rings. I thought this is what the locking ring was for?
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:47:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 11:48:44 AM EDT by TAC40]
You are right, it is there, my bad. But take a look at the lower photo about 11 oclock on the buffer tube. Is that a notch for the stop to fit into? Never seen one before but if all the parts are there it might be an explanation. Edited to correct myself. NEVER MIND Damn, I just got to start wearing my glasses when I look at things. Check this link to make sure you got all the parts. [url]http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=CS-M4P[/url]
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:56:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TAC40: You are right, it is there, my bad. But take a look at the lower photo about 11 oclock on the buffer tube. Is that a notch for the stop to fit into? Never seen one before but if all the parts are there it might be an explanation.
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There is a small raised portion on the end of the buffer tube that goes for about 1/3 of it. This is the bottom of the buffer tube, you can see the raised part in it's entirety in picture #1 when the buffer is cocked at a 90 degree angle from the receiver.
Check this link to make sure you got all the parts. [url]http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=CS-M4P[/url]
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I have exactly all those parts, thank you though.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:59:12 AM EDT
In other words, if the retainer was not there, could you tighten it more?
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I just tried this, it takes 2 full turns. However, the retainer hole is completely covered up (maybe a sliver showing at most). And the buffer is locked pretty tight into the receiver even without the locking ring. I still don't think this is abnormal, all the buffer tubes I've seen have like 2" of threading it seems.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 12:40:50 PM EDT
Thanks for the help guys. I just solved my problem... took a dremel to the buffer tube and just shaved a little bit off the edge. [:D]
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 3:45:15 PM EDT
Copied this from the TM on installation of an M-4 Stock and bufer Tube. Look on page 3-81 of TM9-1005-391-23 You can find it here [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/books/[/url] 6A. Lubricate threads of lower receiver (5.1) and lower receiver extension (5.2) with molybdenum disulfide grease (item 19, app D) before reassembly. 6B. Pre-position the spring (5.3) and buffer retainer (5.4) into the retaining hole of the lower receiver (5.1). Screw the locking nut (5.5) onto the lower receiver extension (5.1) with the three notches on the locking ring (5.5) facing forward. 6C. Align the receiver end plate (5.6) onto the lower receiver extension (5.2) with the lug of the receiver end plate (5.6) facing forward. 6D. Pre-position the takedown pin (5.7), detent (5 8), and spring (5.9) in lower receiver assembly (5.1). 6E. Push down on the buffer retainer (5.4) and spring (5.3) and at the same time, screw the lower receiver extension (5.2) in until it retains the buffer retainer (5 4) in position. 6F. Align the lug of the receiver end plate (5.6) into the rear of the lower receiver (5.1). Screw the locking nut (5.5) forward until it contacts the receiver end plate (5.6). 6G. Using the special tool (Item 12, app C) tighten the locking nut (5.5) until snug. 6H. Using the special tool (item 12, app C), and torque wrench, torque locking nut (5.5) to 40 ±2 inch pounds. 6J. Stake the receiver end plate (5.6) in 2 places across from the notches in the locking nut (5.5).
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:06:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 4:08:56 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
I followed these instructions more or less. I'm not about to go posting my problems on the board if I didn't atleast follow directions. The problem really has to do with parts from different vendors just not fitting. So some minor fitting was required. My guess is it is the FAB-10 receiver I am forced to use has the buffer retainer hole drilled just a little further back toward the rear of the rifle than it should be. Maybe 1mm or so.
6A. Lubricate threads of lower receiver (5.1) and lower receiver extension (5.2) with molybdenum disulfide grease (item 19, app D) before reassembly.
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CLP works fine. If I need/want to use something heavier I'll use TW-25B.
6B. Pre-position the spring (5.3) and buffer retainer (5.4) into the retaining hole of the lower receiver (5.1). Screw the locking nut (5.5) onto the lower receiver extension (5.1) with the three notches on the locking ring (5.5) facing forward.
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Did that except I put the notches outward, I like the tiny notches outward and the wrench notches on the inside. Less likely to snag anything on those wrench notches when they are inside. Doesn't affect anything, I've seen many people do it.
6C. Align the receiver end plate (5.6) onto the lower receiver extension (5.2) with the lug of the receiver end plate (5.6) facing forward. 6D. Pre-position the takedown pin (5.7), detent (5 8), and spring (5.9) in lower receiver assembly (5.1). 6E. Push down on the buffer retainer (5.4) and spring (5.3) and at the same time, screw the lower receiver extension (5.2) in until it retains the buffer retainer (5 4) in position. 6F. Align the lug of the receiver end plate (5.6) into the rear of the lower receiver (5.1). Screw the locking nut (5.5) forward until it contacts the receiver end plate (5.6). 6G. Using the special tool (Item 12, app C) tighten the locking nut (5.5) until snug.
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Did all that.
6H. Using the special tool (item 12, app C), and torque wrench, torque locking nut (5.5) to 40 ±2 inch pounds. 6J. Stake the receiver end plate (5.6) in 2 places across from the notches in the locking nut (5.5).
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Sorry, don't have a torque wrench I can use with my buttstock tool. It's plenty tight but not too tight. And I'm certainly not going to stake it into place. It's not going anywhere, trust me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:50:36 PM EDT
"Sorry, don't have a torque wrench I can use with my buttstock tool. It's plenty tight but not too tight. And I'm certainly not going to stake it into place. It's not going anywhere, trust me." Dont sweat it. 40 inch pounds is 3 1/4 foot pounds. That is hand tight and just a bit depending on the size of the fastener.
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