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Posted: 8/12/2003 2:44:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 2:44:54 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]
I'm trying to clean up the mess I made HERE.

I lightly sanded the roughed-up area of the barrel with the sander drum of a dremel. The metal is clean, degreased and shiney.

I apply BC Super Blue, and it has absolutely no effect. The metal shows no sign of blueing.

What am I doing wrong?
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 2:56:26 PM EDT
Bluing products won't work if your barrel is stainless steel. Check with DPMS to see if you got a SS or CrMd steel barrel. If steel, what are you degreasing with? I start off with spray on brake cleaner (leaves no residue), then clean the area with alcohol, and finally wipe down everything with acetone. I do it this way to remove all rust inhibitors including silicone, which can stop the bluing process. Oh yeah, do this in a well ventilated area or outside, and for heavens sake don't smoke while using this cleaning method. After the acetone then apply the bluing product IAW the instructions.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:03:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TAC40: Bluing products won't work if your barrel is stainless steel. Check with DPMS to see if you got a SS or CrMd steel barrel.
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I'm certain its chromolly, not stainless.
If steel, what are you degreasing with? I start off with spray on brake cleaner (leaves no residue), then clean the area with alcohol, and finally wipe down everything with acetone.
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Hmm, I used alcohol. I'll try various nasty stuff, including the acetone, etc. I don't happen to have any brake cleaner, but the thing is very clean and dry already. I'll have at it. [b]and the adventure continues...[/b]
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:35:58 PM EDT
Try shaking the solution up good first. I had a bottle of stuff that acted like water until I shook it up. Apparently some active substance settled out of it.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:55:20 AM EDT
I went back and cleaned the affected part of the barrel with orange cleaner, acetone and alcohol/ammonia (my own concoction.) Then it occurred to me that since I've already sanded this down to bare shiny metal, how can there be any grease or other substance in the way? But I tried again, no success, no black, still shiny silver. So I tried shaking the bottle for a minute. Tried again, no success, no black, still shiny silver. I went to the DPMS Web site and found the barrel, and it clearly states that its made of 4140 steel. I stuck a nail in the SuperBlue solution. The nail turned black in seconds. [b]WHAT AM I DOING WRONG? I'm beginning to think this project is jinxed.[/b]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:31:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 6:35:53 AM EDT by Carbine_Man]
I just got off the phone with DPMS. He said the barrel IS made of 4140. I'm thinking that if it was stainless, they'd advertise it as a feature. He had no idea why the B-C Super Blue doesn't work. He suggested trying another brand. The back of the Super Blue says:
An extra strength concentrated blueing solution for touch-ups as well as complete reblueing. [red]Designed for blueing mirror polished steel parts that contain nickel and chrome alloys.[/red] Super Blue Liquid Gun Blue is the darkest blue and penetrates the hardest steel instantly.
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So I don't know what to make of it. The DPMS guy also said they'd refinish the barrel in teflon for $30 + shipping. It would take a month. I dunno. Maybe the Rustoleum is the way to go. [b](GROAN)[/b]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:44:27 AM EDT
You have impregnated/coated the portion of the barrel you polished with the abrasive from the Dremel drum. That would probably be either aluminum oxide or silicon (sand, which glass is made of), neither of which will 'blue' Try cleaning this area with steel wool and solvent. Then, using a clean piece of steel wool, wet it with bluing compound and rub it into the polished area. You might need to rub agressively at first, then lighten up on the pressure as the blue begins to take. Let us know if this cures the problem. Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:47:43 AM EDT
You could use some molyresin. It will stick to about everything, and it is used on some military stuff now link: http://www.molyresin.com/
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 7:19:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rimfire50: You have impregnated/coated the portion of the barrel you polished with the abrasive from the Dremel drum. That would probably be either aluminum oxide or silicon (sand, which glass is made of), neither of which will 'blue' Try cleaning this area with steel wool and solvent. Then, using a clean piece of steel wool, wet it with bluing compound and rub it into the polished area. You might need to rub agressively at first, then lighten up on the pressure as the blue begins to take. Let us know if this cures the problem. Good luck!
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[b]Nope![/b] Tried the steel wool, rubbed and scrubbed, pressed hard, maintained a bright optimistic outlook, thought happy thoughts, rubbed and scrubbed, held my head tilted to the right just so... nothing. The dinged-up spot is getting to be a very attractive shiny silver, smoothed up nicely. And the steel wool was nice and black. [size=5][b][center]AAAAAaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhh!!!![/center][/b][/size=5]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 9:00:16 AM EDT
Wow, you really have a crank yanker there!! The only other thing I can think of would be to warm it up, which will open the pores in the metal and help the blue solution get a 'bite' on the metal. I would be ready to try a different blue solution, but you have said yours worked well on a test piece (nail).
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:38:50 AM EDT
Well, I went and got some Rustoleum High Heat spray paint. I have done a lot of model type painting in the past (I used to be into high power rocketry) and I think I can do this and get a good even coat. I'll post a pic of the results. Thanks for all the advice.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:56:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Carbine_Man: I used to be into high power rocketry
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I guess we can all call you a "rocket scientist".
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:35:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 6:36:06 PM EDT by TAC40]
Just to verify if your barrel is stainless or 4140, take a magnet and see if it sticks to the barrel. Just make sure it is not near anything else like a compensator/suppressor, sight tower, and such. Magnet will stick strongly to 4140 but barely if at all to stainless. I would almost put money on the fact that you have a stainless barrel.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 2:56:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 2:57:37 AM EDT by Carbine_Man]
Originally Posted By TAC40: Just to verify if your barrel is stainless or 4140, take a magnet and see if it sticks to the barrel. Just make sure it is not near anything else like a compensator/suppressor, sight tower, and such. Magnet will stick strongly to 4140 but barely if at all to stainless. I would almost put money on the fact that you have a stainless barrel.
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[b]BZzzzt![/b] Wrong answer! Thanks for playing! I tried the magnet just now and it sticks to the barrel just like it sticks to the sight post. I painted it last night with the Rustoleum High Heat. It came out great! You can't tell that it's painted unless you know where to look (just a 3 inch section of barrel under the handguards.) It blends in very well and is a nice even coating. It filled-in somewhat the gouges, so that they're barely visible. The paint dries very fast and you can recoat in a few minutes, so I did five light coats. No runs, and it blends well at the edges. - C_M
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 10:28:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 10:29:56 AM EDT by philsAR]
Originally Posted By Carbine_Man: Tried the steel wool, rubbed and scrubbed, pressed hard, maintained a bright optimistic outlook, thought happy thoughts, rubbed and scrubbed, held my head tilted to the right just so... nothing. The dinged-up spot is getting to be a very attractive shiny silver, smoothed up nicely. And the steel wool was nice and black. [size=5][b][center]AAAAAaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhh!!!![/center][/b][/size=5]
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Man, you forgot to stick your tongue out while rubbing with steel wool. I find that if I stick it out the right side it always helps a great deal. [banghead]
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 6:55:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2003 6:56:57 PM EDT by Carbine_Man]
Well, I just found out the hard way that Rustoleum High Heat is NOT impervious to oils, specifically penetrating oil. I sprayed 3-in-1 penetrating oil on the upper to get ready for tomorrow's removal attempt, and all the nice paint job wiped right off the barrel! One step forward, two steps backward. [banghead] I'm going to forget about refinishing now, until I can figure out how bad the damage to the upper and barrel is. After that I may send it to a refinisher to be done right.
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:20:03 PM EDT
Hello I've seen youv'e been having a rough time. My suggestion would be to contact brownells they have gunsmiths on hand that are excellent and will point you in the right direction when you are ready. I have used a couple of there bake on moly coats for finishing rifles that really turned out good.(basically you just spray it and throw it in the oven, and it is very resistant to solvents.) Any way hopefully things will work out for you.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 1:07:12 AM EDT
The thing about stainless steels being nonmagnetic is a myth. Stainless steels can be magnetic, and often are. It depends on the alloy and also on how the part was made; high stress (cold working) can induce magnetism in stainless steels, such as rolling threads on a bolt or pulling a rifling mandrel through a barrel. Usually the steel needs to be made specifically with nonmagnetism as a characteristic, otherwise, it will be magnetic or have residual magnetism. A refrigerator magnet sticks very strongly to both my SOG AirSOG (440A) and my Spyderco Endura (ATS-55) and neither were worked much at all (mostly grinding and sanding with knifemaking). The easiest way to find out whether your barrel is stainless or not (regardless of what the company that built it says, they could have simply made a mistake) is to see what the original finish is. If it's parkerized, it's definitely NOT stainless. If it's blue blue, it's most likely carbon steel. If it's a black blue, or any sort of spray and bake finish, it could be either carbon or stainless. Since your bluing solution obviously works - on the nail and on the steel wool - I'd say you have got yourself a stainless barrel. Was the original finish also Teflon (what they want to refinish it with)?
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 7:03:27 AM EDT
Talk about some bad luck. CM I would agree with the DPMS guy and try another bluing Manufacture or use an epoxy based paint. The epoxy based paint is heat resistant and chemcial resistant (once cured). I actually had a gun reblued by a gunsmith (hot tank not a cold blue) and there was a small section near the crown of the barrel that wouldn't take the the bluing. I just figured it was either contaminated prior to bluing or the metal was a little stressed there. Good luck
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:41:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2003 11:42:56 PM EDT by b0ne]
Carbine_Man... Go ahead and IM me your address and I will ship you my bottle of Oxpho-Blue Gel. I prefer the liquid because I like to dip my parts, so I haven't been using the gel. Someone might as well get some use out if it, if not me. If it works, great. Throw out that bottle of crap that Birchwood-Casey calls "cold blue". If it doesn't work, well, you got a stainless barrel!
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 3:50:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the offer but I already "fixed" it. [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=167308&page=1]CLICK HERE.[/url]
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