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Posted: 7/20/2003 1:57:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 1:58:16 AM EDT by hycheng]
My fellow Caliban,
From this website :
www.awatters.com/m1a/calegal.html

It seems to suggest California will not consider a rifle to be assault weapon with detachable magazine if the magazine requires a tool to remove. This leads me to wonder if one can open up the FAB 10 magazine well and put a 10 round mag on the lower with the same hex lock the fab 10 lower currently uses. It still sucks but at least I don't have to shotgun the upper. Aestheically it also looks better.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 2:06:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 2:09:11 AM EDT by Dano523]
If that was the case, then why not just change out the mag catch button to a non spring loaded button that would require a wrench to loosen the catch. This would allow you to use a standard AR receiver($90). All you would need to do is pull the catch spring, drill the threads out of the button, and install a nut.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 2:15:31 AM EDT
I was under the impression CA DOJ close the loop hole on original AR parts. i.e. You can't change a banned AR receiver into legal by modifing parts that can be readily replaced with the original. The only way to get around is to start with a legal lower which is FAB 10.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:59:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 6:40:02 PM EDT by Quarterbore]
Sounds to me like you CA owners need to work with an AR-15 manufacturer so that they will provide you with a lower that does what you need from the factory... I hear there are at "least" 10 people in California that like guns so perhaps a company would like your money? Personally, I think this would be a better option then messing up a FAB-10 as what you describe does nothing more for you then the FAB-10 itself... Good Luck!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 2:35:01 PM EDT
A.) the FAB's do not have ten round magazines. They have a cut off magazine top ( usually marked leo) that holds 10 rounds. There is no bottom to the magazine, and could not just be "switched" out. B.) It was the addition of the rivet at the front of the mag well, as well as the allen screw, that caused the CA-AG to have to accept the design. Though I have removed the rivet on some to refinish the lower, replace the mag follower, ect.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 5:49:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By notack: A.) the FAB's do not have ten round magazines. They have a cut off magazine top ( usually marked leo) that holds 10 rounds. There is no bottom to the magazine, and could not just be "switched" out. B.) It was the addition of the rivet at the front of the mag well, as well as the allen screw, that caused the CA-AG to have to accept the design. Though I have removed the rivet on some to refinish the lower, replace the mag follower, ect.
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Notack, From B), it sounds like even if you need to use an allen screw to remove the mag thus meeting the "need to remove with a tool" criteria, DOJ will still not approve the lower unless you have the rivet. Am I correct ? What I was trying to ask is it possible to open up the sealed lower mag well (by removing the bottom) in the FAB 10, put a full length 10 round mag into it and attach it with the allen screw and may be event he rivet. Will it get DOJ approve then ? This will opens up great possibilities of adapting the FAB 10 for 9mm or event the not so future 6.8mm round.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:34:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: Sounds to me like you CA owners need to work with an AR-15 manufacturer so that they will provide you with a lower that does what you need from the factory... I here there are at "least" 10 people in California that like guns so perhaps a company would like your money?
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They would like our money, but not the crap the state would give them.. plus they would need to get more insurance, and jump through a lot of hoops. If we had a pool of 100 (1,000??) or more Californians who would buy one, and would also put down a deposit for one, I'm sure we could get the ball rolling a lot faster... I'm considering just cutting down a 30 round magazine and attaching it to the bottom of my sealed magwell.. same effect, without having to destroy the lower, should it fail, and also removes the possibility that the DOJ would consider the altered FAB-10 an "AR clone," which is a BIG no-no. -Lee
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:30:14 PM EDT
I actually exchanged a couple of email with the guy who runs www.awatters.com/m1a/calegal.html He explained that he was going to take a banned lower and install a real fixed 10 round mag in it, however it would require the use of a "tool" to remove it. He said he was going to start working on the prototype this summer and submit it to the DOJ. I'm in the process right now of finishing two 80% lowers using the same design. I plan to have my prototype ready for the DOJ by Thanksgiving if all goes well. Keep ya fingers crossed Kalibans, we might find a way out of this FAB-10 thing just yet.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 12:41:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Two2Three: He explained that he was going to take a banned lower and install a real fixed 10 round mag in it, however it would require the use of a "tool" to remove it.
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That won't work, read the law. I think it was mentioned earlier, but just in case it wasnt (I'm too lazy to check) AR15s are banned by name, as are their clones. The law continues to state that taking a banned firearm and altering it to disable the "evil" features is still illegal. Think about it like this: If you buy a finished AR15 lower, it will forever be an AR15 lower, regardless of your modifications, and therefore always illegal here. The only way I can find around it (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take a 0% or 80% lower and machine it yourself with the modifications built into it (how the FAB-10 gets around the rules - because it is not a modified finished lower, it is a specialty machined lower) then call it something other than an AR-15.. -Lee
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:46:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By leelaw: The only way I can find around it (correct me if I'm wrong) is to take a 0% or 80% lower and machine it yourself with the modifications built into it (how the FAB-10 gets around the rules - because it is not a modified finished lower, it is a specialty machined lower) then call it something other than an AR-15.. -Lee
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Or save some step and start with a FAB 10. Its not a banned weapon. All you need to do is open up the mag well. Most of the holes are drilled already. I think of the FAB 10 as a 95% lower :-D
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:14:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By hycheng: I think of the FAB 10 as a 95% lower :-D
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A $300 95% lower!!!
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 9:40:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By notack:
Originally Posted By hycheng: I think of the FAB 10 as a 95% lower :-D
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A $300 95% lower!!!
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Without needing a $400 jig to work on.
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