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Posted: 7/16/2003 4:51:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 7:54:00 AM EDT by Limey506]
New guy here. I'm thinking about building a rifle, but can't seem to find the answer to a question. I did a search of the archives, and looked at various articles on this site, but it didn't turn up anything that directly answered my concern...and I don't want to assume anything and do anything illegal. Here's my question:

***** Edited question after re-reading for sake of clarity...I was too confusing in my original post.*****

In building a rifle, can you put pre-ban parts on a post-ban lower as long as it complies with the law regarding post-ban rifles?

If anyone can answer (emailing me privately would be fine @ currahee506pir@aol.com), I would really appreciate it. While the logical answer would seem to be "yes, as long as it complies with the maximum allowed features," we're dealing with the Government, and logic very rarely has anything to do with them.

Thanks in advance,

Chris W.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:54:23 AM EDT
no, you can not mix and match post ban / pre ban. get a post ban lower, you must build a post ban rifle. get a pre ban lower, you can build a pre ban rifle. putting a pre ban upper on a post pan lower is a NO NO. you could put a post ban upper on a pre ban lower, but why would you????? anyway, hope this helps. feel free to ask any questions, and as always, do a search just to be sure. take care. coltcarbine
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:14:09 AM EDT
Yes, you can mix 'em up. Confused yet? You can put a pre-ban upper on a post-ban lower IF you cut off the bayonette lug and permanently affix a muzzle break. You cannot put a working collapsible stock on a post-ban lower. You can use pre-ban magazines with post-ban lowers.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:21:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 6:26:27 AM EDT by Limey506]
You can put a pre-ban upper on a post-ban lower IF you cut off the bayonette lug and permanently affix a muzzle break.
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Confused? Are you kidding? My head is spinning trying to find the answer. [banghead] I was planning on using a post-ban barrel or doing just that (cutting off the bayonet lug, etc). My main concern was the upper. It seems everything deals with the "lowers" when referring to pre- vs. post-ban...no mention of [u]stripped[/u] uppers. Thanks to you and Coltcarbine for your responses. Regards, Chris W.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:27:03 AM EDT
There is no difference between uppers; the only part of an AR that is considered the firearm is the lower (i.e., the only serial number is on the lower). Barrels are also the same - no pre/post designation, no serial number. The presence of a bayo lug, threading, and a flash suppressor make a barrel a "pre-ban"; remove these items and you have a "post-ban". Confusing, I know!
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:33:19 AM EDT
Unless you buy a lower that was assembled into a complete pre-ban rifle, you cannot build a pre-ban rifle on it now. Do not pay the premium for a pre-ban lower that has never been assembled into a complete rifle as that is a sucker's sale. It does not matter when the lower was manufactured, if it was not assembled into a complete rifle before the ban went into affect, you cannot make a pre-ban on it now. The ONLY exception is if you can prove with receipts that you had all the parts for making a complete rifle before the ban became law, and only now are getting around to putting it together, and that is impossible to do since you are just now buying the lower. To stay completely legal without any question, just build a post-ban rifle and work your butt off to get your legislatures to not support the renewal of the ban in 2004. If you build a pre-ban now are you going to go to jail? No, there is no division of the ATFE that checks out every AR-15 seen in public to assure that it is completely legal, but if something happens that brings the rifle to the attention of the police, theft, shooting, any other violation that might draw attention, even mistaken identity, then you are in a world of hurt. Not worth the risk in my book. Just get to work on getting the bill killed, then you can do what you want. Do you "need" a FS and bayo lug, most do not, but I know I will be the first to put them on when the bill sunsets. I know I want my rifles to look the way they were intended to look, not like some neutered want-a-be. Besides, need has nothing to do with the errosion of our Second Amendment rights.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:35:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 7:36:12 AM EDT by SteveinAz]
...It seems everything deals with the "lowers" when referring to pre- vs. post-ban...
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You hit the nail on the head. The lower [i]does[/i] determine whether the rifle is post-ban or pre-ban. Pre-ban lower=do what you like w/the rifle Post-ban lower=can only have 2 "evil" features: 1. Flash suppressor (not a compensator) 2. Bayonet lug 3. [b]Removable magazine[/b] 4. [b]Pistol grip[/b] 5. Collapsable stock 6. Can't remember 7. Can't remember
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:41:54 AM EDT
Guys, Thanks to all for the advice, guidance and help. I think I wasn't totally clear in my original posting, or my subject might be mis-leading. My original question was about a pre-ban upper (upper ONLY...NO barrel, sights, lugs, flash supressors, etc.) on a post-ban lower with all other parts being post-ban, and what would that constitute in terms of a legal or illegal firearm. My assumption/logical answer seems to be holding true. Thanks again, Chris W.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:52:52 AM EDT
Limey, You can use whatever stripped upper your heart desires! If you want to be real cool, try to get one with the M4 feedramps. Georgia Precision is selling some very nice uppers with engraved RAS markings, which the military boys use and make you very cool (alas, no M4 feedramps, but Kurt's Kustom Firearms can add them for you): [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=26058&w=myTopicPop[/url] (I built a rifle using this upper, and it is the bomb.) -FC
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 5:06:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteveinAz: Post-ban lower=can only have 2 "evil" features: 1. Flash suppressor (not a compensator) 2. Bayonet lug 3. [b]Removable magazine[/b] 4. [b]Pistol grip[/b] 5. Collapsable stock 6. Can't remember 7. Can't remember
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No - the law reads "semi auto with the ability to accept a detachable magazine and more than ONE feature" is an AW. The feature list is: 1) pistol grip 2) bayonet lug 3) flash suppressor or threaded muzzle designed to accomodate a flash suppressor 4) folding or collapsing stock 5) grenade launcher A regular post ban AR is semi-auto, with the ability to accept a detachable magazines, and has ONE of the listed features (the pistol grip), so it's a legal non-AW. If you wanted the threaded muzzle/flash suppressor on a post ban, you could either remove the pistol grip (swap one feature for another), or remove it from consideration as an AW by making it unable to accept a detachable magazine or not semi-auto. A brand-new AR with no detachable magazine can legally have a telestock AND a pistol grip AND a bayonet lug AND a threaded muzzle/flash suppressor AND a grenade launcher, since without a detachable magazine it does not fall under the AW ban at all.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 8:58:54 AM EDT
Why are companies offering the AR15/clones in a pre ban style still when the post ban are made?.Ie no flash suppresor or bayonette lug?.If it is illegal to have it on a weapon after the cut off date?
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 9:56:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bellin101: Why are companies offering the AR15/clones in a pre ban style still when the post ban are made?.
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They're not selling new complete rifles in banned configuration. However, uppers with banned features and collapsable stocks are available as replacement parts for those AW's that are exempt from the ban.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:48:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Circuits: A brand-new AR with no detachable magazine can legally have a telestock AND a pistol grip AND a bayonet lug AND a threaded muzzle/flash suppressor AND a grenade launcher, since without a detachable magazine it does not fall under the AW ban at all.
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Circuits, I really respect your knowledge in this area and I need some clarification on this statement. As you pointed out the wording is: "a semiautomatic rifle that has [b]an ability to accept a detachable magazine[/b] and has at least 2 of - " If it has the ability to accept, doesn't it fall within the definition regardless of the lack of or presence of the actual detachable magazine? Wouldn't this be similar to how a lug that any known bayonet can be attached to is considered a bayonet lug regardless if there is such a bayonet present?
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