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Posted: 5/13/2003 6:24:39 PM EDT
I finally got my paperwork back from the judge...so now I offically have a blank lower registered as a pistol....my intent is to build a single shot pistol....my question is...do I need a buffer tube if it's single shot?????
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:38:16 PM EDT
If you want it to be a bolt action, no. If you want an auto-unloader, yes. try this link: http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/sbr-aow-pistol.html may help
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:47:15 PM EDT
Hey, wait a minute...you got a rifle lower converted to a rifle lower? What was the process? I may have to do this...see my other post on "AOW from rifle lower build." You may want to do an AOW build. You can keep it semi auto, use a flash suppressor, high capacity clips, bayonet lug, v-8 engine and anything else politically incorrect you want. It seems Brady Boy neglected to address the AOW, thank goodness. Im building 2. One AR, one shotgun. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 5:06:29 AM EDT
Pardon my stupidity.....but when you say auto-loader...do you mean semi-auto...remember I want this thing to be single shot....I'm removing the gas tube.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 5:07:47 AM EDT
sorry I meant to say auto-unloader....and I'm not sure what that means.....
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 7:41:13 AM EDT
If you remove the gas tube, its single shot. If you have the gas tube in, and the buffer on/in, the follower insert you put in the AR to feed single rounds will activate the bolt stop every time, making it an auto unloader. It kicks out the spent shell for you, and opens the bolt. you then put a new round on the empty feed ramp, and hit the bolt release. A very fast operating single shot. How did you get your lower legally declared as a pistol?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 10:57:07 AM EDT
thanks for the answers.....as far as registering it.....I bought a blank lower and told my FFL that I wanted to register it as a pistol...he then gave me a bill of sale to submit to the state...it went to the judge and a month later my permit was modified ....so now I can "carry" a Panther Arms in 223 cal.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:16:07 AM EDT
user426, Are you using a DPMS single shot lower? I live in Western New York and have a Carbon 15 pistol, you should see peoples faces when I show them my new "pistol", especially when they see it being shot! What caliber are you using?
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 1:14:36 PM EDT
Nope....I am using a DPMS lower but it's a regular run of the mill lower....I removed the gas tube to make it single shot...in .223
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 5:36:16 PM EDT
this guy has about 5 approaches to a legal post ban pistol. Check em out! I like the one about welding the magazine so you can have a semiauto 10 rounder. :) http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/sbr-aow-pistol.html
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 6:17:11 PM EDT
yeah....I saw that.....but I may still want to use my ciener conversion....
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:49:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/16/2003 10:55:38 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Originally Posted By user426: yeah....I saw that.....but I may still want to use my ciener conversion....
View Quote
DANGER LURKS HERE! If you build an AR-15 without a gas tube AND you suddenly add a Ciener 22 conversion kit you now STILL have a semi-automatic pistol with too many evil features and it would be ILLEGAL! You can do a pistol as per the links on my website that you have seen BUT remember that the non-semi route means that it can NOT be semiauto even with a conversion kit! If you want a semi-auto (ie Ciener Conversion) then you need to consider the AOW or SBR routes! I also see some confusion about my "Auto-Unloader" concept. What I am refering to is a semi-automatic upper mounted on a lower that is a SINGLE SHOT lower with no magazine and no way to add one. You load a round, press the mag release, fire and the cartridge is ejected, you then manually load a new round and repeat.... You are manually loading BUT the gun is helping you AUTO-UNLOAD the spent case hence an autounloader!
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 8:33:26 PM EDT
Hey yo Quarterbore! I was quoting your stuff incorrectly, I apologize. I am having my class 3 SOT here declare my new Mega Lower a healthy baby AOW and put in a DPMS lower parts kit this week. (Had to give him some work for doing the "making" paperwork) Going with the 7 1/2 inch barrel with a compensator on a threaded barrel to accept a registered silencer at a later date. Flat top with a red-dot or HUD, with a laser/flashlight on the gas block for backup. Figure both electronics wont fail at the same time, and if they do...I will just bore aim and pray! One question though, should I go with a 7.62 x 49 in this short of a barrel for better stopping power? Or depend on the wobbly tumbly 2000 fps keyholing 223?
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 10:06:20 AM EDT
I am about to do the same thing. Going to get a lower and use it for a pistol. Register it has an AOW.
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 3:47:18 PM EDT
Thanks.....I must of had a flashback....no Ciener....
Link Posted: 5/18/2003 5:20:33 PM EDT
OK...tried out the pistol today....worked great single shot....so my question is.... since I don't need the pistol buffer in single shot...what do I use to cover the rear of the upper????thanks for all your help and comments....
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 6:07:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 6:43:27 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Originally Posted By user426: so my question is.... since I don't need the pistol buffer in single shot...what do I use to cover the rear of the upper????thanks for all your help and comments....
View Quote
What upper and Bolt/Carrier are you using? With a normal AR-15 upper, you need the pistol buffer to help retain the bolt/carrier plus it closes the carrier for you making this a straight pull bolt gun... If you use an OA-96 style pistol, then how did you remove the gast tube as this is a piston system? In that case, yes you can buy a PLUG from "budam" here on the forums. Now, with a ciener kit, this wouldn't be an issue and I think one of those plusgs would work BUT I have already warned that this has legal issues. Good Luck!
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 12:45:18 PM EDT
I want to build a semi-auto AR15 pistol. I already have the registered lower. (It was a new stripped lower bought from a dealer who papered it on the 4473 as a pistol and has an invoice from the manufacturer indicating this lower had never been built into a rifle). I bought it with a pistol permit and had it registered as such.) Anyway, my intention is to fix a 30 round mag in the mag well by replacing the mag release button with a nut. Blind pinning and then soldering the mag in place. I wanted some redundency just in case there was any question. The mag would be loaded by opening the upper and using strippers or loading individually. I bought a pistol buffer but while looking at it, it occured to me that the the pistol buffer goes into the bolt which would prevent the upper from being opened readily for loading. Therefore, instead of a pistol buffer, I will use a CAR buffer/tube that is modified to prevent the use of a stock. What think all, am I good to go?
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 2:55:58 PM EDT
Quarterbore....thanks....I finally now understand the whole thing....and I'm happy with a single shot.....for now.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 8:41:43 PM EDT
My state does not allow AOW or SBR. Has anyone considered building one of these sub-50oz pistols so that other features can be maintained? The web page mentioned in question seems to indicate you can buy a new lower, register it as a pistol, and then you'll have the magazine outside of the grip, but as long as you: * Don't thread the barrel * Don't put on a shroud * Keep it under 50oz You can build legally. Is this correct? How hard would it be to come in under 50oz do you think? -Dan
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:40:40 PM EDT
one idea i had was to use a dmps singleshot lower with a ares beltfed upper .i'm not sure of the atf's stance on beltfeds vs. magazine fed at this time so it could posibly be a loophole.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 10:11:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1redneck: one idea i had was to use a dmps singleshot lower with a ares beltfed upper .i'm not sure of the atf's stance on beltfeds vs. magazine fed at this time so it could posibly be a loophole.
View Quote
A BELTFED PISTOL? Man and they laughed at me when I wanted to build an AR-10 pistol!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:24:40 AM EDT
Dang! Beltfed seems the shiznit! "Where the heck did he get that machine gun?!?!" they would say, when you are firing seemingly countinuously from behind cover with a pistol and a box of SAW belts. Muuuuahahahahahahhaaaaaa!
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 1:22:12 AM EDT
Well I did it back before the bans. Used a BM rec bought as such, never on a rifle. Used a 22kit and pluged the end with a john deere hydrolic hose cap....no laws broken back then.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 10:15:28 AM EDT
So has anyone built one with a fixed mag, or as a bolt action recenty? This is one of those things that would be very handy in either configuration.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:35:49 PM EDT
You can always wait for Bushmaster to start producing their pistol. They aquired the holdings of the former Professional Ordnance company.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 12:39:33 PM EDT
I am building one... Mine is a 300 Fireball (300/221 or 300 Whisper Clone) and you can see details on the barrel here: [url]http://jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=44&t=140065&w=searchPop[/url] When I get the barrel back, I plan to first assemble this on a flattop upper receiver and a KAC FF RAS to try it out. The RAS will allow me to mount a bipod or other attachements if I want to get stupid. This pistol is being built on a BRAND NEW stripped Bushmaster lower receiver that I bought new stripped and I had the paperwork done as a RECEIVER so it was clear that it was NOT a rifle. After I try this out and get comfortable with the cartridge, I will then mill the left side of the upper receiver and mount a bolt handle... unless I decide to try something like an ASA side charging upper receivers..... And yes, I do plan to hunt deer with this as here in PA we can not hunt with a semi-auto but with no gas port or gas tube this is no semi-auto and it never was nor can t be without a hell of a lot of work! QB
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 5:27:30 PM EDT
Mine is a single shot bolt action.....correct me if I'm wrong.....if you fix the mag in place...you then have to break the AR open to load it....and with the pistol buffer in place that would create a problem...since the bufer spring fits into the bolt carrier.....am I wrong????
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