Use for visible lasers on a rifle?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Use for visible lasers on a rifle?

Posted: 9/2/2017 2:37:05 PM EDT

I can understand on pistols and ir lasers for use with night vision but I don't get the red and green laser use on rifles.

Thanks

Posted: 9/2/2017 5:14:45 PM EDT

[#1]

Point?

Do you have one?

Posted: 9/2/2017 8:24:48 PM EDT

[#2]

No I don't but would consider getting one, if someone would explain a practical use?

Posted: 9/3/2017 7:28:55 AM EDT

[#3]

I have one, mostly for grins. I use it for my home defense setup. I change my furniture depending on what planned activity i.e. hunting, plinking, home defense.

Posted: 9/3/2017 12:55:38 PM EDT

[#4]

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No I don't but would consider getting one, if someone would explain a practical use?

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LOL... really?

Because the laser puts a dot on the POA/POI.

Can you figure it out from there?

Posted: 9/3/2017 8:08:26 PM EDT

[#5]

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LOL... really?

Because the laser puts a dot on the POA/POI.

Can you figure it out from there?

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Duh I understand that but the beam works both ways and I've never seen anyone use one even though they are sold. That's what red dots are for..Fast shooting with both eyes open.

I can understand why the military uses ir lasers with head mounted night vision.

Posted: 9/3/2017 10:57:53 PM EDT

[#6]

Great for night time critters. Have killed dozens of dillos and skunks, a few opossums, using mostly a red laser and a handful with green. Get it dialed in and put the dot on the target. No aiming required in the conventional sense. Illuminate and fire. Have a green on an AR (.223/5.56) and on a M&P 15-22. Red is on Ruger 10/22.

Posted: 9/3/2017 11:36:27 PM EDT

[#7]

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Great for night time critters. Have killed dozens of dillos and skunks, a few opossums, using mostly a red laser and a handful with green. Get it dialed in and put the dot on the target. No aiming required in the conventional sense. Illuminate and fire. Have a green on an AR (.223/5.56) and on a M&P 15-22. Red is on Ruger 10/22.

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What brand green laser?

Posted: 9/4/2017 8:39:18 AM EDT

[#8]

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What brand green laser?

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One of the green lasers is integrated to a red dot (TruGlo). Actually a good optic but is big and bulky. The other is a small Crimson Trace CMR-206 mounted to the bottom side of hand guard. I have a third green laser that's tiny. However I'm not pleased with it's design and its output is somewhere between <1mW and 1mW. It too is a TruGlo.

Posted: 9/4/2017 10:42:16 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I can understand on pistols and ir lasers for use with night vision but I don't get the red and green laser use on rifles.

Thanks

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As you get older your eyes may not be able to see iron sights, but on the other hand a red dot would be much faster vs a laser. The are also useful if your wearing a gas mask and for desolation.

Posted: 9/4/2017 11:19:43 PM EDT

[#10]

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As you get older your eyes may not be able to see iron sights, but on the other hand a red dot would be much faster vs a laser. The are also useful if your wearing a gas mask and for desolation.

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Ok. Good point.

Posted: 9/4/2017 11:54:08 PM EDT

[#11]

They're really only practical if you wear a gas mask or something that won't let you get a proper cheek weld to look through your main optic. Also shooting from an unconventional position like under a truck or something. Otherwise it's wasted space.

Posted: 9/6/2017 10:26:11 PM EDT

[#12]

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They're really only practical if you wear a gas mask or something that won't let you get a proper cheek weld to look through your main optic. Also shooting from an unconventional position like under a truck or something. Otherwise it's wasted space.

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Was going to post this but I was beat to it.

i have a laser but have only used the visible setting for sighting in the ir laser.

also I have read the visible laser being used as an intimidation tool by LEO

Posted: 9/7/2017 2:06:35 PM EDT

[#13]

I think Lasers were popular before RDS's became mainstream. An RDS does what a laser does (putting dot on target) without any interference of dust/etc in the air.
Lasers are still popular on handguns because micro-RDS/reflex sights are not popular on them (yet). Eventually electronic sights will get so good/small that even pistols will be wear them (just as most use them on rifles now).

15 years from now we'll all be joking and laughing saying "remember when we used to use lasers that actually put the dot on the target?!".

Posted: 9/7/2017 10:03:13 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
I think Lasers were popular before RDS's became mainstream. An RDS does what a laser does (putting dot on target) without any interference of dust/etc in the air.
Lasers are still popular on handguns because micro-RDS/reflex sights are not popular on them (yet). Eventually electronic sights will get so good/small that even pistols will be wear them (just as most use them on rifles now).

15 years from now we'll all be joking and laughing saying "remember when we used to use lasers that actually put the dot on the target?!".

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Not really. One example is positioning the weapon around an object, without sighting the conventional way. Illuminate the target; hit the target. Red dot don't do that.

Posted: 9/7/2017 10:37:59 PM EDT

[#15]

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Not really. One example is positioning the weapon around an object, without sighting the conventional way. Illuminate the target; hit the target. Red dot don't do that.

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Hmm. Good point. I guess there IS an advantage (for lasers) if shooting from unconventional positions (where normal sight picture is not possible). I hadn't thought about that.

Posted: 9/8/2017 12:20:50 AM EDT

[#16]

I like it on my 9mm AR style rifle.

Posted: 9/8/2017 12:26:42 AM EDT

[#17]

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Hmm. Good point. I guess there IS an advantage (for lasers) if shooting from unconventional positions (where normal sight picture is not possible). I hadn't thought about that.

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Another advantage is that scopes and red dots are usually sighted at 100 yds. That means for close quarters they can be off by 4" or more depending on your setup. Also for close quarters, you may not be able to focus depending on your scope. Adding a laser improves the POA/POI for CWB. I like to mount mine close the barrel so there's minimal parallax issues at close range.

Posted: 9/8/2017 2:07:34 PM EDT

[#18]

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Another advantage is that scopes and red dots are usually sighted at 100 yds. That means for close quarters they can be off by 4" or more depending on your setup. Also for close quarters, you may not be able to focus depending on your scope. Adding a laser improves the POA/POI for CWB. I like to mount mine close the barrel so there's minimal parallax issues at close range.

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Which is why I zero at 50/200 because your dot is no more than +/- 1.5" up or down out to @ 220 yards and everything thing else further are hold overs.

Posted: 9/8/2017 7:10:34 PM EDT

[#19]

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Which is why I zero at 50/200 because your dot is no more than +/- 1.5" up or down out to @ 220 yards and everything thing else further are hold overs.

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I thought you were supposed to sight in at 50 yards. That what I've been doing.

Posted: 9/8/2017 7:14:47 PM EDT

[#20]

I assume that green is a better choice over red for lasers?

Posted: 9/8/2017 7:48:37 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:

Another advantage is that scopes and red dots are usually sighted at 100 yds. That means for close quarters they can be off by 4" or more depending on your setup. Also for close quarters, you may not be able to focus depending on your scope. Adding a laser improves the POA/POI for CWB. I like to mount mine close the barrel so there's minimal parallax issues at close range.

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Uhh...no. Standard AR sights are 2.6" above bore, so until your round is beyond its far zero range, it should be less than the offset at the muzzle. Unless you're using something like a 25m zero (which still wouldn't cause problems until 50+m)

Visible lasers are for gas mask use, or some very uncommon firing positions.

Posted: 9/8/2017 11:50:06 PM EDT

[#22]

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I assume that green is a better choice over red for lasers?

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Green* is susceptible to failure in cold temperatures (below 40F) and can consume batteries up to a rate 2x red. I wouldn't consider purchasing a visible laser for daylight use. There are exceptions but they're not the rule. Typically red / green are useful in low-light / no-light conditions (with or without flashlight / other light source (flood lights, etc).

Red has extended battery life with everything being equal. Red is easier on the eyes which can be a consideration. Regardless, make sure either color is rated at a full 5mW, confirmed from the manufacturer.

* Two diode types: DPSS is sensitive to cold temps. Direct Diode is much, much less sensitive and more stable.

I would recommend a good quality red at a confirmed 5mW peak power output rating.

Posted: 9/15/2017 10:26:49 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think Lasers were popular before RDS's became mainstream. An RDS does what a laser does (putting dot on target) without any interference of dust/etc in the air.
Lasers are still popular on handguns because micro-RDS/reflex sights are not popular on them (yet). Eventually electronic sights will get so good/small that even pistols will be wear them (just as most use them on rifles now).

15 years from now we'll all be joking and laughing saying "remember when we used to use lasers that actually put the dot on the target?!".

View Quote

I put a green laser on my Deltapoint Pro equipped Glock 17 for duty use. Why? Because inside 10 yards red dots on pistols are slower to aquire a sight picture, but more accurate. The laser gives me close in speed that is faster and more accurate than irons at night or indoors. And smallness is what you DONT want in a pistol RDS... you want as large a window as possible so you don't lose the dot. Your whole post sounds like someone who has not used a RDS on a handgun, with or without a laser. In 15 years, I may have a RDS on all my handguns, but I will also have a green laser on every handgun with a RDS.

I have a red CTC on a P226R and green CTC on two other handguns. The red is not easier on the eyes, the green is easier to see though. I will never buy another red laser again if I have a choice. Native green laser diodes have operating temp down to zero degrees F. This is not 1999. 32 F is not the lower limit. Green lasers are not frequency doubled unless you buy junk.

I'm not a fan of green lasers on a rifle unless it's part of your IR laser. For use with Sim guns/mask... OK, I guess. Gas mask... OK, I can see that. Thats about it. Other officers say it's to intimidate perps. I think an officer pointing a loaded AR15 at someone and screaming to drop the weapon or get on the ground or they will shoot you is intimidating enough. If not, Id rather go with flashes and loud noises coming from my rifle to get a violent armed felon on the ground than green laser dots.

Posted: 9/16/2017 5:31:52 PM EDT

[#24]

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Uhh...no. Standard AR sights are 2.6" above bore, so until your round is beyond its far zero range, it should be less than the offset at the muzzle. Unless you're using something like a 25m zero (which still wouldn't cause problems until 50+m)

Visible lasers are for gas mask use, or some very uncommon firing positions.

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Once again, I said "they can be off by 4" or more depending on your setup". Obviously not all setups are the same. U can easily be over 4" with an AR with carry handle mounted optics or some bullpups with high mount rings.

Posted: 9/16/2017 5:41:19 PM EDT

[#25]

I have a Streamlight light/green laser on a G17 for HD.

I plan on using it for an upcoming PCC night shoot on my MPX.
The MPX has a Vortex Razor red dot on it but I anticipate alot of odd shooting positions at this match and the laser will definitely be a plus.

I find green easier for my eye to pick up quickly over red. Especially in daylight.

Posted: 10/7/2017 1:55:45 PM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
No I don't but would consider getting one, if someone would explain a practical use?

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I dont intend to sound like a jerk but if you are trying to find a reason to buy gear to attach to your rifle, I would just forget buying that item and loading up you rifle with stuff of dubious value. Instead I would put the money toward a higher end item of known value (like a better optic) or something like additional mags, ammo, and range fees

Posted: 10/7/2017 2:06:27 PM EDT

[#27]

In three words:

Rapid target acquisition.

Posted: 10/7/2017 9:01:48 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:
In three words:

Rapid target acquisition.

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Outside of unusual firing positions ( as what was mentioned) wouldn't a red dot or holographic sight accomplish that?

Posted: 10/7/2017 9:03:52 PM EDT

[#29]

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Quoted:

I dont intend to sound like a jerk but if you are trying to find a reason to buy gear to attach to your rifle, I would just forget buying that item and loading up you rifle with stuff of dubious value. Instead I would put the money toward a higher end item of known value (like a better optic) or something like additional mags, ammo, and range fees

View Quote

I have no intention of getting one. Was just curious, no offense taken and you did not come off as being a jerk at all.

Posted: 10/8/2017 12:14:42 AM EDT

[#30]

it is nice to let your fire team know where the hell your shooting if you even don't have tracers.

Posted: 10/8/2017 12:29:38 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I can understand on pistols and ir lasers for use with night vision but I don't get the red and green laser use on rifles.

Thanks

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That's dumb.

Posted: 10/8/2017 1:07:57 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think Lasers were popular before RDS's became mainstream. An RDS does what a laser does (putting dot on target) without any interference of dust/etc in the air.
Lasers are still popular on handguns because micro-RDS/reflex sights are not popular on them (yet). Eventually electronic sights will get so good/small that even pistols will be wear them (just as most use them on rifles now).

15 years from now we'll all be joking and laughing saying "remember when we used to use lasers that actually put the dot on the target?!".

View Quote

"15 years from now we'll all be joking and laughing saying "remember when we used to use lasers that actually put the dot on the target?!"

"Now, thanks to the NRA ---We can't even own guns!"

Posted: 10/8/2017 7:46:15 PM EDT

[#33]

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That's dumb.

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Not really. Red dots do what visible lasers used to do and then some. It was a legitimate question and was answered.

Now I'm better edumacated on the subject.

Posted: 10/13/2017 7:46:07 AM EDT

[#34]

use visible laser to zero the slaved IR laser in the day time.

Posted: 10/13/2017 4:28:01 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
They're really only practical if you wear a gas mask or something that won't let you get a proper cheek weld to look through your main optic. Also shooting from an unconventional position like under a truck or something. Otherwise it's wasted space.

View Quote

I agree with the quote, especially in military or law enforcement applications. There are also times when some might work in teams, and being able to recognize what your buddy is aiming at without him audibly telling you can be advantageous.

That being said, for the average citizen with no need for a gas mask or heavy helmet may not find lasers all that suitable. Once they spend the equivalent time and money building up skill and considering their needs, lasers tend to come back up in a different light. So it's great OP that your mind is open enough to ask for input on their use.

Posted: 10/13/2017 4:28:33 PM EDT

[#36]

Sorry to cut my post in half, but I'm limited on my characters...

One thing I haven't seen posted is the use of lasers as a training tool, not just in the shooting role. An inexpensive visible laser attached to your pistol, rifle, or shotgun and show you the real effect of your trigger squeeze and handling points on your POI downrange. There's nothing more sobering than pulling the trigger on a dry gun and seeing your dot turn into a long line or a circle, instead of remaining as a steady bead. It helps to illustrate a point to both novice and expert shooters.

That is one of the principles behind some modern training products like the SIRT pistol and SIRT bolt, though those products can be expensive for those that aren't training consistently. However, a $20ish airsoft laser that won't be used to zero or fire live rounds can help accomplish the above.

The same idea can be applied to close range, sightless fire. A lot of people train for unsighted fire from compressed positions in the CCW or HD role, but don't always comprehend the path of the bullet or shot cloud before and after passing through a target. Using a laser at close range can help you accustom yourself to your go-to angles and establish more safe positions with your long guns, which are tricky enough to employ at close range.

Posted: 10/14/2017 5:28:35 PM EDT

[#37]

I can see the value of slaved lasers. IR lasers have much greater value than visible.

Posted: 10/20/2017 4:25:24 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Sorry to cut my post in half, but I'm limited on my characters...

One thing I haven't seen posted is the use of lasers as a training tool, not just in the shooting role. An inexpensive visible laser attached to your pistol, rifle, or shotgun and show you the real effect of your trigger squeeze and handling points on your POI downrange. There's nothing more sobering than pulling the trigger on a dry gun and seeing your dot turn into a long line or a circle, instead of remaining as a steady bead. It helps to illustrate a point to both novice and expert shooters.

That is one of the principles behind some modern training products like the SIRT pistol and SIRT bolt, though those products can be expensive for those that aren't training consistently. However, a $20ish airsoft laser that won't be used to zero or fire live rounds can help accomplish the above.

The same idea can be applied to close range, sightless fire. A lot of people train for unsighted fire from compressed positions in the CCW or HD role, but don't always comprehend the path of the bullet or shot cloud before and after passing through a target. Using a laser at close range can help you accustom yourself to your go-to angles and establish more safe positions with your long guns, which are tricky enough to employ at close range.

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That was very informative. Thank you Sir.

Posted: 10/21/2017 2:00:55 PM EDT

[#39]

I actually found a use for a green laser flashlight combo.

I ordered one for a Sub 2000 carbine; that I can't justify spending as much, if not more than the rifle costs; in order to use a red dot on it.

Posted: 10/22/2017 11:01:53 PM EDT

[#40]

Visible lasers can have some applications in some settings, but they are often fairly narrow, and don't necessarily apply directly to most civilian use, because many of them apply to offensive operations and/or non-permissive environments.

In addition to use with gas masks, visible lasers can be used as a compliance tool or "EOF" tool, which is to say that it can be used to illicit cooperation from persons who are not necessarily "confirmed hostile," but may be "in the way" of your activities. In most civilian contexts, this would not be terribly helpful as most jurisdictions would consider it unlawful brandishing, but it can be very helpful, e.g., to keep civilians away from a unit's movement without having to fire shots or even have to use verbal commands while moving to an objective.

Also, in mixed light environments/NV operations, it can be useful use the visible laser when transitioning from NVGs to visible light rapidly while moving from room to room/area to area.

This list is not, of course, all inclusive, but again, the range of applications is fairly narrow for defensive civilian use.

Despite what it may "feel" like to many, the reality is that for the majority of shooters, using a visible laser is actually slower and requires much more training to use effectively than a good RDS. Many shooters when put against the clock will find an RDS much faster than trying to place a visible laser on a target and engage. Not to sound like an ass about it--but generally speaking, for most people, the visible laser will rarely be much more than a novelty (or a zeroing aid for IR lasers), while for the most part, those to whom many of these scenarios might apply are already issued a laser aiming module with a visible laser function.

~Augee

Posted: 10/22/2017 11:17:19 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
Outside of unusual firing positions ( as what was mentioned) wouldn't a red dot or holographic sight accomplish that?

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View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
In three words:

Rapid target acquisition.

Outside of unusual firing positions ( as what was mentioned) wouldn't a red dot or holographic sight accomplish that?

I didn't say anything about red dots or holographics. Lasers DO facilitate rapid target acquisition, but they are not the ONLY way
to achieve rapid targeting.

However, a decent laser is cheaper than a decent red dot or holographic.

I personally don't have or really want a red dot or holographic sight, though. I like scopes. But I like shooting long distances.

One thing I have is a combination of a night vision scope and a visible and IR aiming laser which are all co-witnessed to each other,
along with the day scope, and everything is on throw lever mounts that return well to zero. I can throw any of these items on the
rifle at any time and know that they'll all aim to point of impact at my zero distance of 100 yards.

I'm still looking for better aiming lasers. I have a bright green one (maybe a bit TOO bright, possibly) but it's not great. Where it points
bounces all over the place from recoil. So that has no place on my rifle, too bad because it's small and bright. It's visible for several
hundred yards in full daylight.