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Posted: 12/5/2005 7:35:16 PM EDT
I see laser units fairly often in photos in Iraq. The PEQ something something...

Exactly what applications are they used for? What are their common uses? Are they mainly for aiming or some other function? IR and Vis.

Mine are mainly used to entertain my cat...
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 8:25:50 PM EDT
The Peq-2(ir laser and illum), Paq-4(IR laser), peq-5(vis laser)...
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 9:26:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 11:41:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2005 11:41:50 PM EDT by MisterSuzuki]

Originally Posted By Victor:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
I see laser units fairly often in photos in Iraq. The PEQ something something...

Exactly what applications are they used for? What are their common uses? Are they mainly for aiming or some other function? IR and Vis.

Mine are mainly used to entertain my cat...



Most times you're seeing the PEQ-2A from Insight Tech AND other high power IR lasers.....There are several uses for them; from the foot shoulder using it for precise bullet aiming, illumination, directing fire and from a commander directing a GBU down from 35,000 feet! Hope this helps!

Vic



Not that I"d like to try....but what sort of eye damage can a laser shot do to it?

Say....if you see a Tango....and shine a laser into his face, and nail the eye........???
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 7:57:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 7:58:44 AM EDT by Zarathustra1]
Just curious.

I sensed that the consensus about lasers on here is that they were gimmicks. The usual quote is that a guy knows a guy that knows a few SWAT guys who swear by lasers, but other than that they are gimmicks.

Do you mean they are used for aiming when clearing a house? Or do you mean 100yd shots in the open?

I am mainly talking about visible lasers. I can understand the pointing and spot-illumination uses of an IR laser easily.

I guess I just never understood actually aiming with a laser though, unless you are shooting from the hip. In a cramped CQB situation it makes more sense, but anytime you are looking through irons or an optic to sight in on a target, what would be the point of a laser be? You already have the target lined up in the sights, so why is a laser needed unless you are firing from the hip or w/o the sights?



Link Posted: 12/6/2005 9:00:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 9:04:55 AM EDT by mfingar]


Say....if you see a Tango....and shine a laser into his face, and nail the eye........???



If he was close enough, you could blind him (on high-power). Class 3b IR lasers are pretty bad news for eyes.


I sensed that the consensus about lasers on here is that they were gimmicks


When shooting handguns indoors with laser sights at 0-50 ft., the results are amazing.



PEQ2-A onthe left and PAQ-4C on the right.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 9:15:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 9:16:36 AM EDT by Zarathustra1]
I'm not bashing the use of lasers at all.

I'm just curious how they are used.

Great pics as usual.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:35:44 AM EDT
Lasers are used by the military to own the night. Nearly all of the lasers you see 'over there' are Infra-Red (IR), and visible only through the use of night vision goggles. Of course, Hadji don't have NODs, so he can't tell when you are aiming at him, much less see you in the dark.

Also, they are mighty fine for designating targets to other nice folks that have night vision goggles, such as Apache helicopter pilots. That way, they know exactly where the folks that need attention are.

Visible lasers are pretty much gay, and without merit on the two-way range.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:41:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 10:41:52 AM EDT by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By eodinert:
Lasers are used by the military to own the night. Nearly all of the lasers you see 'over there' are Infra-Red (IR), and visible only through the use of night vision goggles. Of course, Hadji don't have NODs, so he can't tell when you are aiming at him, much less see you in the dark.

Also, they are mighty fine for designating targets to other nice folks that have night vision goggles, such as Apache helicopter pilots. That way, they know exactly where the folks that need attention are.

Visible lasers are pretty much gay, and without merit on the two-way range.



OK, that is what I had thought.

I completely understand the use of IR lasers. I didn't know what the uses of Vis lasers were.

That makes perfect sense, thanks.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:45:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MisterSuzuki:
Not that I"d like to try....but what sort of eye damage can a laser shot do to it?



MSNBC article
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 3:39:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 3:42:39 PM EDT by Firelotus]
My OTAL reflected the other night and my eye is fine (haven't noticed any change is sight or reading), caught that sucker and turned away immediatley


Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:19:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 4:20:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 7:48:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:42:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
Lasers are used by the military to own the night. Nearly all of the lasers you see 'over there' are Infra-Red (IR), and visible only through the use of night vision goggles. Of course, Hadji don't have NODs, so he can't tell when you are aiming at him, much less see you in the dark.

Also, they are mighty fine for designating targets to other nice folks that have night vision goggles, such as Apache helicopter pilots. That way, they know exactly where the folks that need attention are.

Visible lasers are pretty much gay, and without merit on the two-way range.



That is funny. Just spoke with a SEAL out of team 10 the other night and he said that the Crimson Trace lasers are a a VERY useful tool.



C4




I think people with the opinion that "lasers are gimmicks" simply haven't tried a quality device..

In case you all didn't know, a $35 Gunshow special is a gimmicky POS...

Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:10:04 PM EDT


Yummy. They look brand new.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:02:56 PM EDT
Hadji does have NVGs, just not as new as ours. Just my .02
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 8:57:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 8:58:47 PM EDT by jlemmy]

Originally Posted By mfingar:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By eodinert:
Lasers are used by the military to own the night. Nearly all of the lasers you see 'over there' are Infra-Red (IR), and visible only through the use of night vision goggles. Of course, Hadji don't have NODs, so he can't tell when you are aiming at him, much less see you in the dark.

Also, they are mighty fine for designating targets to other nice folks that have night vision goggles, such as Apache helicopter pilots. That way, they know exactly where the folks that need attention are.

Visible lasers are pretty much gay, and without merit on the two-way range.



That is funny. Just spoke with a SEAL out of team 10 the other night and he said that the Crimson Trace lasers are a a VERY useful tool.



C4




I think people with the opinion that "lasers are gimmicks" simply haven't tried a quality device..

In case you all didn't know, a $35 Gunshow special is a gimmicky POS...




I couldn't agree more . I have been running a laser devices ar-2a on my m4gery for home defense and wouldn't dream of taking it off . With it you can fire with precision and speed without shouldering the rifle or without fumbling with optics . Plus I want it to be as easy as possible for my wife to defend herself if I'm not around . You do need to however, like you said , spend the money on a good one and don't knock it till you tried it !


Link Posted: 12/9/2005 4:45:23 AM EDT
I swear I read that early in the war GIs were using viz lasers to scare the crap out of haji.
I agree that that little red dot on your chest or head would scare the piss out of me.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:25:57 AM EDT
Interesting conversation on what is going on, I can tell you that the IR lasers are a big part of our owning the night. The ability to coordinate fires with the commanders pointers bring a level of control that we did not have in Vietnam. The individual soldier has as many have already stated either a PEQ 4 or 2 and PVS 7 or 14 NVD's this capability is a crucial one to night operations. Another interesting point of use is the ability of the laser to illuminate at range. Victor supplied me with one of his Torches and I am going to send him some pictures that he can post of the devise in use. The Nighthunter lights with their IR filter go even further and bring in the illumination level to engage multiple targets. As far as lasers and eye damage it is a very real concern for anyone using them. We have a LIF that blocks the frequency from our NVD's and it is manditory to use them. When you think that IR lasers are now in use in power levels above the 3 watt level even a spit second look into one that powerful would do irreversable damage. The Soviets even used the range finder lasers to damage the eyesight of Afghanistan warriors back in the 70's Our lasers are more in the 50mW-100mW range with some going to 500mW. Anyone of these is capable of doing serious damage to the retina. Be very careful and always use a LIF. The pictures posted twice in this link show the one laser mounted with the switch down and with no room to move it to on. In this position you are only capable of using the wire pressure switch and we always like to have a back up way to energize the laser so there is a special mount included with that laser that allows you full movement of the switch. We are very thankful for the technology that gives us the ability own the night. I wish you all a blessed Christmas and New Year and know very surely that the ARMY is not Broken!

The Army Owns the Night
GOD bless America
Very Respectfully,
David, South West Asia
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:11:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 8:14:25 AM EDT by Victor]
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:37:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ARMY30YEARSPLUS:
The pictures posted twice in this link show the one laser mounted with the switch down and with no room to move it to on. In this position you are only capable of using the wire pressure switch and we always like to have a back up way to energize the laser so there is a special mount included with that laser that allows you full movement of the switch.




Great input, as always.

Using my DremelFu, I carefully milled-out my KAC cover to accomodate the switch movement
(looks like a shadow, under the switch). Works like a charm.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:05:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mfingar:
I think people with the opinion that "lasers are gimmicks" simply haven't tried a quality device..

In case you all didn't know, a $35 Gunshow special is a gimmicky POS...



Personally, I threw down the $450 for an OTAL. It hangs out in the safe mostly, waiting for me to find an IR LED for it.

Lasers are tools, not gimmicks. There are just very few good reasons to use a visible lasers where people shoot back.


Originally Posted By This-Guy:
Hadji does have NVGs, just not as new as ours. Just my .02



In my tour in northern Iraq in OIF 1, I didn't see any hadji's with NVDs. I know they are out there, they take them from our damaged vehicles after they ambush us. I'm sure there are Russian and Chinese devices out there as well, in addition to Sony Night Shot video cameras.

Even if they used them, it would just allow them to see us kill them better. I have not heard of them using IR lasers combined with night vision to have effective fire in low light. I really don't think they concern themselves much with effective fire.

Actually, now that I think about it, I do recall recovering a Gen 1 scope on a stanag/G3 mount.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:08:34 AM EDT
Wow did I miss that detail, nice job. One more point I wanted to make in reference to this topic is in regards to the Crimson Trace wrap-around grip that we have on a number of our M9 pistols. It does scare the enemy something you don't initially think will happen but these guys are being ruled by fear anyway so it makes sense that putting a visible dot on them gives them the willies. Come to think of it gives me the willies too. I much prefer to work at night since owning it makes all the difference in how a high risk situation develops. I hope to have some pictures soon for all of you which i will send to Victor.

The Army Owns the Night
GOD bless America
Very Respectfully,
David South West Asia
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:18:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:
Just curious.

I sensed that the consensus about lasers on here is that they were gimmicks. The usual quote is that a guy knows a guy that knows a few SWAT guys who swear by lasers, but other than that they are gimmicks.

Do you mean they are used for aiming when clearing a house? Or do you mean 100yd shots in the open?

I am mainly talking about visible lasers. I can understand the pointing and spot-illumination uses of an IR laser easily.

I guess I just never understood actually aiming with a laser though, unless you are shooting from the hip. In a cramped CQB situation it makes more sense, but anytime you are looking through irons or an optic to sight in on a target, what would be the point of a laser be? You already have the target lined up in the sights, so why is a laser needed unless you are firing from the hip or w/o the sights?






I think mainly it comes down to how you use the laser and how you set it up. I don't believe that setting a laser to a spesific POI is a good thing because then it's only "on" at that spesific distance.

I run an M6 on my AR so I have the vis laser. It sits something like 2.5-3 inches to the 3 oclock(I don't remember off the top of my head the exact distance). It's "sighted" so that if I put the laser on a bullseye the bullet will strike 2.5-3 inches left of the dot. It will hit there regardless of the distance(not taking into account wind drift and such at longer ranges). I hope I explained that well enough but I probably didn't.

Lasers can be great tools if they are used right.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 4:48:16 PM EDT
The visible laers are also very important for handgun use if you carry a shield for an entry team.
In addition, if you have to work in mopp gear, firing a rifle can be pretty difficult to do, they help out a great deal there.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:41:56 AM EDT
There is a reason why the next generation fo illuminators are 3 diode set-ups with a IR pointer, illuminator AND a visible light green laser.

Simon
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 11:11:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SimonTan:
There is a reason why the next generation fo illuminators are 3 diode set-ups with a IR pointer, illuminator AND a visible light green laser.

Simon



What is the name of some of this second generation stuff? Sounds like a nice piece of kit.

bp
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