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Posted: 8/24/2003 7:16:02 PM EDT
Kinda...

After bump firing one mag today my Surefire M500 quit working. The shock apparently killed the MN10 Lamp.

I thought the M500, being designed as a weapon light, could take a 30 round burst. Good thing I still had the MN 11 to use as a spare until I can find a good source for a replacement MN10.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 7:36:47 PM EDT
Weapon lights are designed to better protect the bulb, but nothing is 100%. All you can do is try to reduce the chances of failure as much as possible. Getting a weapons light is one very good way of doing that. No gaurantee, but much, much better.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:08:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 12:54:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: Contact SF! They will most likely replace it for free... C4
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Yup. Good guys to deal with. A word of advice: To prolong the happy life of my Surefire bulbs I always take them out of the weapon when at the range/bumpfiring. Save it for when it's really needed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 2:01:34 PM EDT
Taking out the lamp module's a good way to prolong lamp ife. But, I'm not thrilled w/ the idea of the lamp going after 1 30 round mag. How many rounds went through that rifle w/ the M500 mounted before that 1 mag? 1 mag isn't a lot. That lamp goes at the wrong time and "oh boy". Were you using the lamp before and after that 1 mag? How sure are you that it was just 1 mag that killed it? Thanks for the update. S2
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 2:18:55 PM EDT
I killed my first P60 after about 1500-2000 rds.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:30:41 PM EDT
The Lamp dies that quickly? Doh.....
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 5:42:32 PM EDT
It could be just its time to go regardless what you may be doing at the time...[XX(]
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 6:33:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Weapon lights are designed to better protect the bulb, but nothing is 100%. All you can do is try to reduce the chances of failure as much as possible. Getting a weapons light is one very good way of doing that. No gaurantee, but much, much better.
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I have used some cheap lights in the past. Mini-mag, Tac Star, Streamlight M3. But i find myself replacing more Surefire bulbs (Lamps) than anything else. My two Streamlight M3's have never needed a bulb replacement, and one of them is mounted on an M1A Scout! The other goes from My 870 to my M4 as needed. I'm taking a carbine course at gunsite this spring. I was planning to use the M500 equipped rifle at the course. But now I'm rethinking that. I may go with the M3 instead.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 7:27:18 PM EDT
IF the Surefire bulb will break, any will. Its all a matter of chances. Its a fragile bulb being subject to the rigors of a rifle. You experience is much different than my own. In two Classic 660 systems, an M500 for more than 2 years, a M900 for two years now (both with a turbo conversion and without), and a M972SU for about a year, I've not had to replace a single bulb due to failure. Ironically, I dont follow the very good advice given about taking the bulb out during practice. The bulbs have stayed put through every FDCC match, half a dozen classes and countless trips to the range. Which include full auto tourture testing on no less than 3 occasions on the M900 and one of the Classic 660 series, on more than a dozen mags. As much luck as I have had with the bulbs, I know they're just bulbs and breakage is a problem. Despite your seemingly bad luck with these bulbs, overall, the Surefire bulbs are built stronger and better equipped to handle recoil. Especially when used in a shock isolated weapons system. I think if you take the class with the M3 you'll wind up wishing you had the more powerful, easier to use and more ergonomic M500. But thats just me [;)] And no matter if your light always fails or has never failed... two is one, one is none. I always carry a backup [:D]
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 12:05:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IronBalaclava: I killed my first P60 after about 1500-2000 rds.
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What type of light were you using the P60 bulb in?
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 12:07:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan: I have used some cheap lights in the past. Mini-mag, Tac Star, Streamlight M3. But i find myself replacing more Surefire bulbs (Lamps) than anything else. My two Streamlight M3's have never needed a bulb replacement, and one of them is mounted on an M1A Scout! The other goes from My 870 to my M4 as needed. I'm taking a carbine course at gunsite this spring. I was planning to use the M500 equipped rifle at the course. But now I'm rethinking that. I may go with the M3 instead.
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Maybe the M500 that you have is defective? Is this the light you keep changing bulbs on? Do you have any other SF lights? If this is your only one and it keeps breaking bulbs, maybe it is a defective housing. You should probably send it in for a diagnostic.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 8:10:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By knightone:
Originally Posted By IronBalaclava: I killed my first P60 after about 1500-2000 rds.
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What type of light were you using the P60 bulb in?
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Standard 660 weapons mounted light on BushyM4a3. I've got 2 more 600 series weapons lights on other firearms. Had one blow out on the dedicated housing on my Mossy 590 as well. No biggie.
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 10:54:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/26/2003 11:01:26 PM EDT by CavVet]
[:(] I have a fairly new setup with a M500A & low round count thru it. [b]1)[/b]Is this a bulb failure itself? [b]2)[/b]Is this isolated or are others having this problem? Edited to add- I would not keep anything on my rifle I had to remove to train with. If it cant hold up to range time, it should be in my junk box. IMHO, The bulbs are not cheap, and should be able to be left in during moderate training.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:44:02 AM EDT
What about a personal/combat light like the G2Z mounted on an AR (semi auto only). Surefire said that this could cause internal damage to the light. Is this BS to sell a more expensive light? Are the lamps the same between these lights & the weapons lights?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 3:58:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 4:22:17 PM EDT by 186KPS]
I believe the subject of how long a WeaponLight lamp should last, and why we recommend not weapon-mounting handhelds, has been discussed here before, but here goes: If your lamp failed after one magazine it is defective. Call SureFire customer service at 800-828-8809, they will have some questions to verify the situation, then they will give you a return merchandise number and a ship-to address for the lamp. They need to receive the old lamp first to verify that it is in fact defective, if it is they will send you a replacement. The tungsten filament on an incandescent lamp is the weakest link in any manufacturer’s light. Tungsten has certain properties that make it difficult to draw into wire consistently. Every so often you will get a lamp that has a weak filament. That is the nature of tungsten and also one of the reasons we recommend using a shock-isolated system for weapon-mounted applications. Taking your lamp/bezel off during daylight training will of course extend the life of your lamp. You don't have to take it off, but you can. Can you mount a handheld to a M4? Yes, but you will not get the same lifespan from your lamp as you would with a shock-isolated system. Two lower priced SureFire WeaponLights (shock-isolated of course) to consider include the 660 Classic Universal system that comes with a barrel mount and a momentary tape switch ($312 MSRP), or the M951C Millennium Universal system that mounts to a Picatinny rail, is waterproof, MilSpec hard anodized, and has a momentary/click-on/click-off pushbutton switch ($286). As far as SureFire lamps breaking before those of other manufacturer's.... well I'm biased of course (I work for SureFire), but that is contrary to what I have experienced during my extensive use of our products and those from other manufacturers. I am posting below the text of an e-mail from a customer; his experience is typical of most of the feedback we get: "Howdy, I’m on a Special Forces team over in Okinawa Japan. A few months ago we received M900A series WeaponLights for our M-4s and have been using them off and on since, but (until two days ago) we have not really had a chance to see how they would hold up to heavy shooting. Here is where the lights really proved themselves. We had a flat range for two days and had approximately 2,800 rounds of 5.56 per man. We did a lot of team drills, ambushes and the like that involve very fast and full-auto shooting. Many times our guns heated up to the point that even the M900A's handles were very hot to the touch. I thought for certain that two days of such shock, heavy firing and tremendous heat buildup would have some adverse effect on our lights. I am very happy to say that the lights worked great! They were not loose at all after almost 3000 rounds, much of it on full auto. The operation was fine and the main and LED bulbs were stable and bright as ever. That light is built like a tank and nuke-proof for sure. Thanks for building such a great light SureFire! In my line of work – it really brings peace of mind knowing that, no matter what the conditions are; you can depend on your equipment. -- D.K. 1st Special Forces Group, Okinawa Japan"
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 3:21:09 PM EDT
M951C Millennium Universal system that mounts to a Picatinny rail, is waterproof, MilSpec hard anodized, and has a momentary/click-on/click-off pushbutton switch ($286).
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That's 8 G2's. Fobus mount, American Spirit Arms sling/rail mount. Take the light off for shooting @ range, put light on for home intruder duty! my $.02
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:43:21 AM EDT
eliminating recoil should help. So everyone thisis your excuse to get that AAC buffer and KAC sound suppressor!! the buffer reduces recoil by about 40% and the suppressor by about 60% so you should have very little recoil when you get through. (notice 40% and 60% don't add up to 100% when you are talking about two seperate systems used in conjunction there is a slight difference in efficiency when used together but you will end up with about 80%-85% of recoil eliminated. surely easier on the bulbs. [b]I understand that line about the tungsten wires being difficult to draw and all but does that mean that surefire can't measure when it is in the nominal range and when it is not? Rejecting the bad wire? Just because the wire is not perfect doesn't mean you HAVE to put it in a bulb and sell it to someone.[/b]
Link Posted: 9/18/2003 8:30:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2003 8:32:53 PM EDT by diverdown]
What?! A Surefire failed?! That simply cannot be! Was that before, or after it walked on water? You probably didn't pay enough for it. You [b][i]MUST[/i][/b] have gotten it on sale. Next time, just pay your $2,000,000.00-for-the-privilege like the rest of us and you should be fine.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 10:09:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2003 10:10:02 AM EDT by danonly]
Originally Posted By new-arguy: [b][size=3]two is one, one is none. I always carry a backup [/b][/size=3][:D]
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Word.
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