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Posted: 4/7/2006 5:41:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 6:25:19 AM EDT by comp1911]
I have come up with a slind designed for use with the new LaRue QD point and a single point QD adapter. I have the materials to make up a few prototypes and am wondering if there is any interest in such a beast.

I'm no high speed guy just a 30yo engineer messing around so I'm just looking for some input.

The prototype I have made up is out of 1" webbing using one adjuster, one buckle and two Uncle Mikes QD swivels.

I'll have some pics up this weekend.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:06:47 PM EDT
tag for the pics.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 1:06:03 AM EDT
You mean for the New Larue QD point and the *ahem* *old* LMT MRP CQB QD point.

I used an IDF sling with Uncle Mike's QD along with an M93B stock for awhile, loved the configuration, but the sling was far from perfect for that setup. SO put me down as interested.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:54:22 AM EDT
comp1911,



I'm interested in one.....and I believe the intereste will grow as more and more of the new LaRue rail get on the market.


A couple of suggestions: Use 1 1/4" webbing or 1 1/2" webbing (the standard today being 1 1/4"). The 1 1/2" webbing may be a little more labor intensive as the standard Uncle Mike's QD's that most people are using are 1 1/4".

A general rule of thumb, the wider the sling the more comfortable it is (when not wearing armor) and the better it sits / lays (when wearing armor / gear).

Another option would be to add a fastex buckle toward the front QD sling swivel, in case the end user needed to get out of the sling quickly (ie. maritime related ops, vehilce ops, etc)

Good luck!!!



Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:32:38 AM EDT
comp,



Just a few more ideas.......In most cases "One size does not fit all".......Everyone likes something different.

That being said, there are numerous ways to use the new LaRue QD rail. Obviously the front part of the sling will have the Uncle Mikes QD sling swivel........But there are several different configurations that guys may want to mount the rear of the sling. Some guys will mount the rear of the sling to the rear of the buttstock and others will want to mount the rear portion of the sling to a single point sling plate (between the lower receiver and the castle nut on the buffer tube).

For those guys that want to mount the rear of the sling on the buttstock, two different configurations come to mind. The first being a Uncle Mikes QD sling swivel (to connect to the QD point on a VLTOR stock) the second is for use on a standard carbine stock. All that would be needed for a CAR stock is another piece of nylon webbing with a tri-glide on one end, this piece of nylon webbing would secure the rear part of the sling to the stock......Here is a pic of what I'm trying to describe:




Other guys may want to connect the rear portion to a single point sling plate. There are 2 options here. Using a HK style snap hook or using the nylon webbing and a tri-glide buckle.

HK hook


Nylon webbing and tri-glide:


The rear of the nylon webbing and tri-glide would connect like the sling in this pic, the front would obviously have the Uncle Mike's QD:


Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:21:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 6:24:56 AM EDT by comp1911]

Originally Posted By USMC03:
comp,



Just a few more ideas.......In most cases "One size does not fit all".......Everyone likes something different.

That being said, there are numerous ways to use the new LaRue QD rail. Obviously the front part of the sling will have the Uncle Mikes QD sling swivel........But there are several different configurations that guys may want to mount the rear of the sling. Some guys will mount the rear of the sling to the rear of the buttstock and others will want to mount the rear portion of the sling to a single point sling plate (between the lower receiver and the castle nut on the buffer tube).

For those guys that want to mount the rear of the sling on the buttstock, two different configurations come to mind. The first being a Uncle Mikes QD sling swivel (to connect to the QD point on a VLTOR stock) the second is for use on a standard carbine stock. All that would be needed for a CAR stock is another piece of nylon webbing with a tri-glide on one end, this piece of nylon webbing would secure the rear part of the sling to the stock......Here is a pic of what I'm trying to describe:

www.usmilitarysurplus.com/surpluscatalog/images/cqbar15sling.gif


Other guys may want to connect the rear portion to a single point sling plate. There are 2 options here. Using a HK style snap hook or using the nylon webbing and a tri-glide buckle.

HK hook
yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/YHM-9756.jpg

Nylon webbing and tri-glide:
www.islandtactical.com/rsrs-z/GGG1072.jpg

The rear of the nylon webbing and tri-glide would connect like the sling in this pic, the front would obviously have the Uncle Mike's QD:
thewilderness.com/catalog/images/spoint_dk.gif




Roger that.

I went with 1" because the ITW webbing parts I found were 1" but I also have a sample made with 1 1/2 without the proper adjuster just a slider to adjust the length.

I too was thinking the rear attachment would need to be able to fit the different configurations you mentioned. That would not be an issue, just need to source the right parts.

At this point I will be able to make up about 7 1" slings with the material I have on hand. I agree with the 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 being better, I'll probably go 1 1/4, I just need to source the parts. Yes, the buckle is just behind the front QD connection.

1" prototype



1.5 Proto without adjuster.


Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:23:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 10:23:33 AM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:26:58 AM EDT
I think you're on the right track here. I tried a normal 3 point but didn't like it because it while it controls the weapon well it controlled the weapon so much that it was in the way. So I switched to a single point and it doesn't get in the way at all which is great, but it also means I pretty much have to hold the weapon in my hands all the time otherwise it flops all around.

In the class I took a few weeks ago, a couple of the instructors pushed 2 point slings as a good alternative so I've been playing around with different options. What I settled on is almost exactly what you've got except that I'm still using the HK hook at the rear. It doesn't get in the way like a 3-point but when I let it hang it is kept under control better than a single point.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:39:36 AM EDT
yeah, what they both said...
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 11:20:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 11:21:23 AM EDT
Thanks for the comments guys. I'll work on getting some samples built and availale for purchase. I'll keep this thread posted.

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 5:20:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JTrusty:
I think DSG Arms made the most improvement to the two point platform when he approached
Ashley from Blue Force Gear and had a custom two point sling made that utilized a 'firing
extension'. This showed real innovation and solved the 'having your cake and eating it too'
syndrome. Now the two point sling could maintain the weapon at the ready position, and with
the flick of a thumb extend the length to provide enough slack to deploy the weapon on the
strong side.

I haven't had much time to work out my DSG Arms 2-point, but in addition to the above, the buckle allow you a little more slack to get out of the sling.

comp1911-
One thing to think of is how accessible the release buckle is while you're wearing it.

Another thought is maybe adding a short loop of heavy bungee cord at some point. Not the entire length, since that seems to make the whole thing bounce around, but maybe a 2-3" loop to allow the sling too give a bit.

Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:41:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 12:45:22 AM EDT by bobfried]
JTrusty - This was my setup for the MRP with the M93B.



As you can see it addresses the length issue of a 2 point sling. Unfortunately it was not the right solution, I think my main draw back was having the rear point mounted way at the back of the buttstock, which made the weapon unbalanced.



I now have a similar setup with a QD point at the rear of the reciever and it balances quite nicely. Unfortunately the IDF sling is lacking when it comes to retention of the extra slack material and does not come with the QD which necessitates hooking them onto Unc Mike's QD swivels.

But there is still the problem on length depending on how the weapon is slung. I am right handed and when I sling it under my left arm behind the shoulder it gives it an almost single point sling feel, always at the ready and in stationary or engaging positions. When I sling it under my right arm it feels more like a traditional 2 point sling and what I would be slinging for things such as patrols. But each requires a slightly different length to work with, too little and it binds up the weapon, too much slack and it makes mag changes a bit slower and more likely to catch on things. Also the matter of comfort needs to be address as when it is slung under left shoulder and hung on the weak side (single point sling style) the sling cuts into the right side of my neck and creates discomfort.

So there's my input, hope someone comes up with an elegant and practical (cheap) solution.

*Oh and to show the severity of my BRD, those are two completely different rifles that I own *
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:32:46 AM EDT
A friend of mine (an Army guy with lightning bolts and sword on his shoulder patch) uses what I think is the most cobbled together two-point sling, but it works for him.

He uses some spare 1-inch webbing and the adjustable part of a ruck-sack strap. It gives quite a bit of adjustability – keeping tight to the chest when you’re bending over to work and allowing for quick adjustment to a length that you’re able to deploy and maneuver the weapon.

He sold me on the two-point concept and I thought about the DSG Israeli type sling. I’m going to try to convert a Wilderness three-point to a two-point.

Just some additional ideas.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:46:27 AM EDT
Good thread.

Yes, I didn't think I created some newest and greatest Tacticool sling but I didn't find anything out there that was like it. In fact the 1.5" proto is made from a 3 point Tactical Taylor that I butcherd.

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:09:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:46:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:19:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:21:00 AM EDT by JTrusty]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:48:37 AM EDT
Well I was foolish enough to buy a DD rail mount push bottun QD swivel mount and mount it in the same spot as the LaRue. I just don't like any single point I've played with yet and thought the "new" 2-point method might work well.

I just can't find a sling that I like with the two points. I've got the IDF Sayaret sling as well as a BFG SOC-C contractor's pack and I've butchered a few of those parts...

I use the velcro and buckle on the Sayeret after removing one of the plastic hooks (which can be done without any damage or irreversible modifications.) It's just ok so far. The "extra" amount of sling that can be released doesn't seem to be enough to swing the rifle around to the other shoulder and is kind of a pain to fasten all back together.

The BFG sling is just too long to attach at the rear of my handguards and the buttstock.

Here is the DD pushbutton QD mount:

Link Posted: 4/10/2006 9:36:24 AM EDT
tag for later reading
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:07:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Well I was foolish enough to buy a DD rail mount push bottun QD swivel mount and mount it in the same spot as the LaRue. I just don't like any single point I've played with yet and thought the "new" 2-point method might work well.

I just can't find a sling that I like with the two points. I've got the IDF Sayaret sling as well as a BFG SOC-C contractor's pack and I've butchered a few of those parts...

I use the velcro and buckle on the Sayeret after removing one of the plastic hooks (which can be done without any damage or irreversible modifications.) It's just ok so far. The "extra" amount of sling that can be released doesn't seem to be enough to swing the rifle around to the other shoulder and is kind of a pain to fasten all back together.

The BFG sling is just too long to attach at the rear of my handguards and the buttstock.

Here is the DD pushbutton QD mount:

suicidehz.zoto.com/img/original/0c556945aa37de6bb41d1ce659f4c072-.jpg



I had a MI QD mount on a old style LaRue set up like that as well.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:11:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 11:12:19 AM EDT by comp1911]

Originally Posted By JTrusty:

comp1911 - The best advice I can give you, regardless what you choose to do with your new
two point is to test, test & test some more! If you plan to offer these to the public it is your
responsibility to offer a product that will not place your customer in harms way. Once you get
your first dozen assembled, give them out to trained professionals who can properly test the
product for weakness in components, assembly etc...

Keep us updated on your progress.



Thanks for the words. At this point I think the few samples I make up with be 1" and come with triglides on the ends w/o the QD. Then they can be adapted to what ever mounting arrangement you want to run. It also eliminates two areas of sewing and a lot of cost associated with the QD swivels. I also have the concern of trusting the QD but we shall see.

I just need to determine a length of webbing to make them, get some thread and we should have some samples for you guys to try.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 12:47:25 PM EDT by militarymoron]
i dealt with the problem of needing a 'long and short' two point sling at the same time for cross-shoulder transitions while experimenting with this setup back in 2003:
www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.access.html#mmsm

but ever since i switched to a simple strap from the weak side shoulder to my rifle, i haven't used any slings.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:57:24 AM EDT
I did this a while back and liked it. I didn't have the right sling to make it work with the swivel at the rear of the rail so I cheated and pushed it forward to get the sling length right.





Now what we need is a new LaRue product.



We need to take the best of the KAC mount, the fact that it is light and replaces the receiver end plate,





With the best of the TD PR4 mount, Namely the third position at the rear....



And you'd have the perfect part to use in conjunction with the new LaRue rail. And it would be nice to get the thing under the $80 cost of the KAC part....


I'm still playing with the two point thing. I think it has a lot of merit.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:33:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
I did this a while back and liked it. I didn't have the right sling to make it work with the swivel at the rear of the rail so I cheated and pushed it forward to get the sling length right.

coloradoshooting.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/tdpr4/a_p4_2pnt_short.sized.jpg



Now what we need is a new LaRue product.



We need to take the best of the KAC mount, the fact that it is light and replaces the receiver end plate,

coloradoshooting.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/tdpr4/KACM4StkSlingMt.jpg



With the best of the TD PR4 mount, Namely the third position at the rear....

coloradoshooting.org/ipw-web/gallery/albums/tdpr4/a_p4_lt_cnt_closed.sized.jpg

And you'd have the perfect part to use in conjunction with the new LaRue rail. And it would be nice to get the thing under the $80 cost of the KAC part....


I'm still playing with the two point thing. I think it has a lot of merit.



But haven't we determined we don't like to mount at the "LaRue" point on the fore-end and at the sling plate at the same time? It's almost as sloppy for retention purposes as a single point sling.

MM- I've always been a little intrigued by your setup ever since I saw it 2 or so years ago. At that time, I hadn't really played around with slings and didn't know enough about what I wanted to try it. Besides that, your left-handedness in the pictures really screws me up

Comp1911- Get crackin' on these things! I'm about ready to cut my BFG sling up even more to make it work and I'd really rather not!
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:03:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:

Comp1911- Get crackin' on these things! I'm about ready to cut my BFG sling up even more to make it work and I'd really rather not!



I cut the 1" webbing last night, I should have them together by the end of the week.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:16:27 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:11:14 PM EDT
Yea.... like all things AR, its always a work in progress....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:01:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Now what we need is a new LaRue product.

We need to take the best of the KAC mount, the fact that it is light and replaces the receiver end plate,

With the best of the TD PR4 mount, Namely the third position at the rear....

And you'd have the perfect part to use in conjunction with the new LaRue rail. And it would be nice to get the thing under the $80 cost of the KAC part....

I like how you think...

My main beef with the TD mount is how bulky it is. The KAC is nice, but lacks the rear point of the TD. I'd like something as you described for a single point even.
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