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Posted: 12/7/2018 11:59:43 AM EDT
[#1]
100y here...
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Posted: 12/7/2018 1:00:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases. you're a Beowulf x user arent you? 
50 yards for my RDS and lasers, 100(or required zero) for anything that requires it to work with offsets/reticles |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 1:22:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are multiple charts done by multiple people like this all over the net. 100 yard is best. No question. Why? You’re never high. You’re either dead on (at 100) or low. Extremely helpful if you don’t know your targets distance. Eliminates having to guess low because you might be shooting high. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Where on Earth did you find this. I can tell you without any reservation that my 25 yd zero is certainly not 11" high at 300 yds, in fact it's dead center at 300 yds. 100 yard is best. No question. Why? You’re never high. You’re either dead on (at 100) or low. Extremely helpful if you don’t know your targets distance. Eliminates having to guess low because you might be shooting high. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 1:24:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I get that it’s closer, and it’s tempting, but for me I’d rather rule out as many variables as I can. If the guy is at 235 yards you’re not going to know if you’re shooting and missing high or low with a 50 YZ. With 100 you at least know all hits are low. But this is more of an internet argument thread where we all get to try and look smart. For 99% of the time, with civilians, it won’t matter  . It’s all way past most plausible self defense scenarios.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Same with a 50 yard zero, except you have a farther MPBR by a pretty good margin. With 100 you at least know all hits are low. But this is more of an internet argument thread where we all get to try and look smart. For 99% of the time, with civilians, it won’t matter . It’s all way past most plausible self defense scenarios. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 1:32:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you're a Beowulf x user arent you? |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Remember when you are close in with a 50m zero height over bore still matters when you are close in.
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Posted: 12/7/2018 2:54:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember when you are close in with a 50m zero height over bore still matters when you are close in. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 2:57:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I zero every rifle I own at 200 yards. I'm a veteran of over 200 high power rifle tournaments and that's considered short range. I know my clicks of elevation and windage because of 35 years of practice. Your zero is an entirely personal decision. Inside your home you don't even need sights, point and shoot. A 200 yard zero (5.56mm) is approximately 1.5 to 1.75" high at 100. Almost dead on at 50 yards. Inside your home you'll be 2" low because the bullet hasn't traveled far enough to make up the difference from the offset of the sights. Most scopes or red dots are centered around 2.7" higher than the bore. Some are higher, some are lower. 2.7" is average for iron sights. You will never miss inside your home no matter how you zero your rifle. When I say 50 yard zero, I mean 50/200. My HD rifles are 50 zeros. My Match rifle is 200, but I confirm 50. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 4:17:28 PM EDT
[#9]
I zero at 100 yards and practice holdovers.
My current favorite drill is to set up a target with 1 notecard and 1 piece of printer paper on it, then run a 2nd target 100 yards (or more) out. Shoot either the notecard or paper from point blank to 25 yards, then transition to the 100 yard target. Mix up the distances and target size each time. Up close you will do well just shouldering the rifle and a check weld |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 4:20:09 PM EDT
[#10]
I choose a 50 yard zero on my red dot equipped 5.56 rifles.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 4:23:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember when you are close in with a 50m zero height over bore still matters when you are close in. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 5:06:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s going to matter no matter what zero you use. |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 5:42:45 PM EDT
[#13]
OP if the stick is just for home defense and you will NOT have to ever engage a treat outside of 25 yards zero at 25 and keep it indoors. Don't forget front sight off set to barrel distance which this will change with different optics, risers and mounts. If you need a good to go indoor/outdoor zero IMHE a 50 zero is good to go. You still have front sight off set to barrel concerns to keep in mind. I hope this helps bro.
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Posted: 12/7/2018 6:17:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can tell you without any reservation that I posted it as a rough guide. If your zero is dead on at 300 with a 25 yard zero it's probably because you have a different sight standoff, probably 2" instead of the 3" on the chart. A 1.5" standoff with a 25 yard zero would be 5" low. A 2.6" as many use for ironsight calculations would be 6.9" high at 300. Did you have a specific point you wanted to make? |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 6:41:17 PM EDT
[#15]
You posted this on reddit already, bro. Did you expect to get something different from the usual 3 camps of 25, 50, & 100 yard zero?
Oh, but i guess you got a response with MPBR here. No matter what zero you choose (from the three that are always mentioned) you will shoot (hopefully) at center mass. And there is little difference between the zeros in the distance you will be shooting at, in HD situations. You gon’ post in m4 forum, too? Lol |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 7:15:11 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm zero'd at 50' for my HD gun. It's the farthest I'm likely to ever engage someone at in my suburban property, and close enough to hit as nearly POA across the possible ranges that I don't have to worry about hold-over or similar.
Larry |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 9:36:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rough? More like wrong. A 25yd/m zero is not going to be 11" high at 300, it is basically a 300 yd zero. Is that specific enough for you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can tell you without any reservation that I posted it as a rough guide. If your zero is dead on at 300 with a 25 yard zero it's probably because you have a different sight standoff, probably 2" instead of the 3" on the chart. A 1.5" standoff with a 25 yard zero would be 5" low. A 2.6" as many use for ironsight calculations would be 6.9" high at 300. Did you have a specific point you wanted to make? |
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Posted: 12/7/2018 10:21:00 PM EDT
[#18]
I zero at 200 and confirm at all other distances.
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Posted: 12/8/2018 1:34:01 AM EDT
[#19]
An Eotech with a 50/200 yard zero will give you your 7 yard zero at the bottom of the circle.
It works well for me |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 1:58:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, I get that it's closer, and it's tempting, but for me I'd rather rule out as many variables as I can. If the guy is at 235 yards you're not going to know if you're shooting and missing high or low with a 50 YZ. With 100 you at least know all hits are low. But this is more of an internet argument thread where we all get to try and look smart. For 99% of the time, with civilians, it won't matter . It's all way past most plausible self defense scenarios. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 2:10:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the guy is at 235 yds, it's not really a home defense scenario. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 2:21:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the guy is at 235 yds, it's not really a home defense scenario. I think it is silly to limit your rifle arbitrarily. Even if the senario is unlikely, even more so than needing your rifle in the first place, being ready for it still improves your general marksmanship level. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 2:42:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he is going Roof Korean. I think it is silly to limit your rifle arbitrarily. Even if the senario is unlikely, even more so than needing your rifle in the first place, being ready for it still improves your general marksmanship level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If the guy is at 235 yds, it's not really a home defense scenario. I think it is silly to limit your rifle arbitrarily. Even if the senario is unlikely, even more so than needing your rifle in the first place, being ready for it still improves your general marksmanship level. I’d understand the argument if you were attempting to hit a playing card. It makes zero sense when applied to something the size of a human torso. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 3:32:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With a 50y zero, your POI is never going to be so high over POA that you miss a man size target. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Same with a 50 yard zero, except you have a farther MPBR by a pretty good margin. With 100 you at least know all hits are low. But this is more of an internet argument thread where we all get to try and look smart. For 99% of the time, with civilians, it won’t matter . It’s all way past most plausible self defense scenarios.100 yard zero isn't just "always low past a certain point", it's low enough to add enough holdover to make it more difficult to hit smaller or partially obscured targets. 235 yards isn't a typical HD or SD distance at all, but hamstringing the capability of a rifle that is so accurate and easy to shoot is silly. People are not going to notice a damn bit of difference in POI between 50 and 100 yd zeroes at typical HD distances, and you're going to be hitting low with both at residential indoor ranges. If I'm not practicing on close-in steel, I'm usually shooting at various distances out to a few hundred yards, with targets set at distances that aren't known until I laser them. Hitting smaller plates with a red dot (as opposed to something with mil or MOA reticle) with a 100 yard zero would be annoying as fuck. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 6:25:47 AM EDT
[#25]
I thought I was going crazy for a minute. I clicked this thread, intending to read whatever comments followed my post from earlier today...but I couldn’t find my post anywhere. Finally figured out there are two of these threads running at the same time
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MPBR (Maximum point blank range) zero. Min/max for your AR. Reflex shooting FTW The MPBR zero, at least on paper, seemed like a better mousetrap. Applying it seems to have confirmed that theory. Instead of picking a “canned” zero, it’s allowed me to stretch the point and shoot performance I desire. I started with a baseline of 6” for my target size (i.e. no more than 3” of deviation between POA and POI). With my particular rifle and load, it gets me out to 275 yards with no holds. It equates to a near zero of 40 yard and a far zero of 235 yards. With a center of mass POA, it’ll still yield hits out to just past 350. Holding a little high (neck area) will get me all the way to 400. Hard to argue with that ease of performance. To the actual question, potential HD distances (for me) aren’t really even a consideration when selecting a zero. Pick one and know your hold at “me to you” distances. Even then, it’d require some sort of hostage situation for the offset to really matter; which is pretty unlikely for a civilian/HD scenario. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 6:37:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote History100 yard is clearly the best here, as they are all about 3 inches low at cqb, but 100 is pretty much dead after that
No sense zeroing at indoor ranges because you don't have time or need to aim at 10 feet |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 7:04:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even adopting your mindset, a 50y zero is at max 1.5”-2” above POA. You’re not going to be “missing high” shooting at a human sized target at any range using that zero unless you’re an incredibly bad shot, in which case different zeroing methods aren’t going to help you. I’d understand the argument if you were attempting to hit a playing card. It makes zero sense when applied to something the size of a human torso. I think 50 and 100 yards are both good zeroes. I just personally with 100. I agree with what you said, hold over and unders don't matter for most targets. |
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Posted: 12/8/2018 7:59:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases. You must be shooting Tinkerbell if you aim at the chest and hit the neck.
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Posted: 12/8/2018 8:09:57 AM EDT
[#29]
50 or 25 is fine for HD. Keep in mind during HD don't take the time to hit a button.
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Posted: 12/8/2018 9:22:47 AM EDT
[#30]
I use 3 different zeros depending on the optic type:
Non magnified optics and iron sights get zeroed at 50yd. Low power variable optics (anything with a 1xish, may or may not have an exposed elevation turret) get zeroed at 200yd (max of .5 mil high at 100yd, or ~1.75"). Near zero generally works out to 40-50yd depending on ammo. High power optics all zero at 100 because I'm going to be dialing them as the situation warrants anyway. I agree with those that say zero doesnt matter at HD distances -- you aren't picking the buttons off your attackers shirt and even if you did, unless you are cranking on 5 mils of elevation to get a 10yd zero you need to deal with height over bore as your biggest factor in accuracy at close range. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 11:22:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 12/9/2018 11:55:40 AM EDT
[#32]
300m
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Posted: 12/9/2018 11:55:50 AM EDT
[#33]
My dedicated, purpose built specifically for HD, 10.3" AR 'firearm' is zeroed at 50yds and confirmed POI at 25yds and less.
Edited as I screwed up the numbers. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 12:15:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 50 yard zero and can say with absolute certainty this is not the case. Sight stand-off alone means POI is lower than POA at across the room distance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 1:01:39 PM EDT
[#35]
What a silly question !
Be sure and draw a fine bead at 15 ft. 
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Posted: 12/9/2018 1:15:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MPBR (Maximum point blank range) zero. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 7:39:50 PM EDT
[#37]
While there are good things about 36 yd zero out to 300, typical HD I would say 50/200. Either or since they are so close in reality. It will keep you within 1.7” + or - out to about 225. Let’s say with a 25 yard zero it turns in to a situation outside. Unlikely I know but just for an example, you could be real high at 100 unless you really understand and practice holdunder. I personally despise any type of holdunder. It just goes against my constitution.
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Posted: 12/9/2018 10:38:14 PM EDT
[#38]
I do 100m on everything. It’s the best overall General Purpose zero
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Posted: 12/9/2018 11:18:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases. |
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Posted: 12/9/2018 11:40:24 PM EDT
[#40]
50yd for irons and dots has worked well for my purposes.
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Posted: 12/10/2018 1:32:12 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is 100% wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do people understand what a 50 yard zero would do vs a 100 yard zero? A 50 yard zero will put you above the point of aim in most houses. So if you aim at the chest, you'll hit a little above that around the neck or potentially over the shoulders missing the person completely. A 100 yard zero will hit below the chest in nearly all home defense situation. Personally I think it should go below your point of aim because it's a sure bet it won't go over the person's shoulder, potentially hitting others. I vote for a 100 yards zero unless someone can explain why a 50 yard zero would be better when the round would fly above the point of aim in nearly all cases.  a 50 yard zero will put you 1.2” below POA @ 25 yards,
0 @ 50, 0.87” above @75, 1.38” above @ 100, 1.53” above at 125 and it works down from there to about 200. The thickness of a 2x4 above or below POA all the way out to 220. That’s it. I think some of you are looking at MOA instead of actual inches at short range. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:39:20 PM EDT
[#42]
i do 50 yd for 5.56
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Posted: 12/10/2018 5:42:50 PM EDT
[#43]
All
the way |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 8:39:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
50 yards is the correct answer. |
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Posted: 12/10/2018 9:19:13 PM EDT
[#45]
I use 100y zero. There’s never a shot that you need to hold low
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Posted: 12/11/2018 12:13:25 AM EDT
[#46]
I hope we all agree a 25 yard zero is not the best.
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Posted: 12/13/2018 6:22:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
50 yards is the correct answer. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 6:49:21 PM EDT
[#48]
For close distance the difference between a 50 and 100 yard zero is around a tenth of an inch at likely home defense distances (5-10 yards).
I once considered zeroing my AR for the likely home defense distance as I'm highly unlikely to need to hit someone at even 50 yards, but due to the sight height above bore being at least 2.65" and often 3" or higher, it's not sensible. A 7 yard zero is great for inside a house, but by 20 yards you're 5 inches high and growing fast, about 4 inches higher every 10 yards, which is completely unacceptable and dangerous. Use a normal zero. There are sights with very close range options, EOTech says you can use the bottom of the circle for the 7 yard aiming point while the center dot is zeroed at 50 yards. What's more, with a normal zero you can take your gun to competition and won't have to rezero. That gives you a lot more useful practice. |
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Posted: 12/16/2018 12:21:53 AM EDT
[#49]
Actual home defense? Honestly.....Its just not going to matter. The inch or 2 high or low from your POI/POA isnt going to be an issue in a true home defense situation. For me I do a 50 yard zero but again for home defense where your farthest shot will probably be 50 feet.....Just know POA isnt POI, and that this would only become a problem in a hostage situation where the guy is hiding behind one of your family.
My opinion. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 4:57:10 PM EDT
[#50]
 Vigilance Elite - Spec Ops Dude's Favorite Combat Rifle Zero |
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