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Posted: 1/31/2018 11:33:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: False choice, anyone here can clearly both a) not accept that and b) make all the comments they want. In any event, the OP is having trouble justifying the added expense of high-priced BUISs. As such, a discussion on whether or not that expense is a necessary one at all is clearly within bounds. The Danial Defense fixed front is a great sight, and can be had on sale or with a discount code for about $50. Every once in a while I see them in the $40-ish range on the EE. For the rear, poly magpuls are prolly the cheapest rear I would run, but I like the Magpul Pro LRs much more. $70-90, but they are really nice sights. These (metal) options give me the confidence that they are sufficiently durable to function as backup sights....and they aren't $200 combined either. I do feel the OPs frustration with this. It's annoying that you can get a nice BCG, which has MUCH higher materials/machining costs, for less than the price of a nice rear sight.  It's regular old economics, of course, everyone (that wants an AR) has to have a BCG...but just a sliver of that population invests in nice back up sights. Massive scale advantage for the BCG. Still, it's annoying. I pretty much never feel like I got a 'good value' when I buy backup sights. Not like I do when I buy a rail or stock or grip or whatever. Muzzle devices are similar to the sights in a lot of ways. "what do you mean a 1" Battlecomp costs $150?!"Is critical thinking being replaced by selective listening??
You do you. I'll keep doing me. And me thinks from actual experience that a BUIS is needed on my guns. Are you paying for his stuff? Alright then |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 1:42:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:lol, false. That is not what the OP wrote. Is critical thinking being replaced by selective listening??
You do you. I'll keep doing me. And me thinks from actual experience that a BUIS is needed on my guns. Are you paying for his stuff? Alright then Quote HistoryQuoted:lol, false. That is not what the OP wrote. Is critical thinking being replaced by selective listening??
You do you. I'll keep doing me. And me thinks from actual experience that a BUIS is needed on my guns. Are you paying for his stuff? Alright then ...I'm definitely suffering some sticker shock. Seems the least expensive for something better than Airsoft quality is around $60, and from there, it goes straight to $200+. Seems excessive, or am I just been a tight wad? In any event, I'm not paying for his stuff...but the OP is CLEARLY questioning the value proposition. He isn't just saying "I want BUIS, recommend some cheap ones," at least, that's not what he's typing. If that is what he's trying to say, his thread title is highly questionable. Without being a mind reader, I'm going to take his comments at face value. In any event, there isn't a lack of tech, examples of sub-$200 BUIS that have, in my experience, worked well were mentioned. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 1:47:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is exactly what the OP wrote. Also, reference the title of the thread. What in this thread has been so out of bounds again? Nice tactical retreat to the "you do you" position though, after very clearly telling other people exactly what they should be saying and believing (ref. 'accept this or stfu'). In any event, I'm not paying for his stuff...but the OP is CLEARLY questioning the value proposition. He isn't just saying "I want BUIS, recommend some cheap ones," at least, that's not what he's typing. If that is what he's trying to say, his thread title is highly questionable. Without being a mind reader, I'm going to take his comments at face value. In any event, there isn't a lack of tech, examples of sub-$200 BUIS that have, in my experience, worked well were mentioned. You don't need a tl;dr to figure out the rest. You're making this harder than it really needs to be. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 8:52:29 AM EDT
[#4]
USed Magpul MBUS on EE or Ruger Rapid Deploy poly sights on Ebay
They are BACK UP sights, don't over think it and don't over spend. Or, just carry a spare battery or two with you and don't have any back up sights. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 9:24:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...Or, just carry a spare battery or two with you and don't have any back up sights. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 10:25:20 AM EDT
[#6]
I look at back up sights the same as motorcycle helmets , they are the cheapest insurance you will ever buy .
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Posted: 2/1/2018 11:46:30 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm a jerk know it all, but I like to help people when I can.
You don't need a buis, especially when me only has a million dollars in the bank.. I mean who, I mean me needs that kind of added expense. Not they. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Guys! I wasn't trying to start a shitstorm, the question was simply WHY are they so expensive, especially compared to the other parts of these Lego rifles. Hell, I just recently bought a new upper, about $200 sans BCG, or about the same as a lot of sight sets. Just struck me as weird.
My thanks for all the responses. The no BUIS philosophy got me thinking, not unreasonable in my circumstances as my AR is pretty much a range toy. I have a PA RDS on it now, that works well enough that a man size target out to 200 yards, maybe more, is going to have a really bad day. If I HAD to use it for HD, point shooting would be more than adequate, no sights needed. Plus, with the exception of my old Marlin lever action, all my other rifles are scope only, no back-ups. And if this new upper proves to be as accurate as I'm hoping, the red dot will go back on the old upper and this one will get a scope, so again, no BUIS needed. All that said, these things don't look right without back-ups, but, at least in my case, they really aren't a necessity. So again, my thanks to all. Later. Dave |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 1:22:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:You were saying it's not needed. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 6:06:16 PM EDT
[#10]
I wonder, what is the cost of a single trip to the range (gasoline, mileage, etc) only to find your optic is dead?
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Posted: 2/1/2018 6:23:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder, what is the cost of a single trip to the range (gasoline, mileage, etc) only to find your optic is dead? |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 8:56:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder, what is the cost of a single trip to the range (gasoline, mileage, etc) only to find your optic is dead? Or, spend the $100 on the flip sights on a quality optic instead. Or, bring some extra batteries. Not saying back up sights aren’t useful, but you won’t spontaneously combust if they aren’t on your range gun. People shouldn’t think they NEED them, but they aren’t bad to have. Personally, I don’t have room on my gun with PEQ and pressure pad for flip ups. Some of my personal guns have them, but I’m pretty confident in my AP R1. And many special operations types I’ve talked to aren’t even using them anymore. Combat grade optics are just as if not more durable than flip up iron/poly sights |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 9:38:11 PM EDT
[#13]
My rifles need them.
Any person who thinks otherwise what we shouldn't or should need doesn't know a thing at all about individual personal experiences or subjectives. We all shoot our rifles. Some more than others while some less than what they're leading us to believe. That's one disconnect that people have here, thinking that they're the only person qualified to tell us things. I've got 29 years of shooting the M16 and AR15. I do know what I need and what I don't need. That still doesn't prove a thing that I will know what's best for everyone else. That's the other disconnect people have here. So many years of doing this doesn't add up to telling others what they should or should not have on their guns. Money. Some have it while some do not. It's their money and we have no place telling others how to spend it on their guns unless they ask. Another disconnect. I own 12 AR's. Probably too small a number for some while too much for the minimalist. I'm not buying 12 ACOG's or 12 Aimpoints. It's okay to get a Vortex Sparc AR or a Strike Eagle on some of them while some do have an ACOG or an Aimpoint of some kind. And they all have BUIS's on them. My rifles need them. Yours may not but you also need to stay in your lane. Not even negotiable. |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 12:00:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4 miles |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 12:01:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What’s the cost of checking red dot prior to going? Or, spend the $100 on the flip sights on a quality optic instead. Or, bring some extra batteries. Not saying back up sights aren’t useful, but you won’t spontaneously combust if they aren’t on your range gun. People shouldn’t think they NEED them, but they aren’t bad to have. Personally, I don’t have room on my gun with PEQ and pressure pad for flip ups. Some of my personal guns have them, but I’m pretty confident in my AP R1. And many special operations types I’ve talked to aren’t even using them anymore. Combat grade optics are just as if not more durable than flip up iron/poly sights The sights (plural) that failed me were "ruggedized", "combat-tested", "issued to out troops",... It was the red dot hardware that failed, not just the batteries (although that happened, too). With this latest RDS failure, all my rifles now have BUIS. Sucky though they may be, the sights were free (NOS, unused parts in my parts box). |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 12:29:05 AM EDT
[#16]
I don't know why they're so expensive, but I won't not have them on a gun.
MBUS will do you nicely. My Troy and DD fixed ones are good too. Nothing wrong with a fixed front and rear with a RDS. |
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Posted: 2/2/2018 12:54:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know why they're so expensive, but I won't not have them on a gun. MBUS will do you nicely. My Troy and DD fixed ones are good too. Nothing wrong with a fixed front and rear with a RDS. As to the expense question......... I don't know. It seems like a good bit of parts for AR's/etc are way more expensive than they should be. That goes for BUIS, so many optic mounts, certain charging handles, etc. |
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Posted: 2/3/2018 7:06:38 AM EDT
[#18]
I run a FSB and DD fixed rear on my patrol rifle. They're always up just in case my optic fails. I've made it my personal rule that when I qualify with my patrol rifle, to use irons only. Hell, 90% of my rifle quals in the army was with irons. I laughed when dudes couldn't get expert with an ACOG. Right now I'm running a UH1 and it's been good to go thus far. I may switch back to my Micro T-1. Either way, if my shit goes down, I've got fixed sights ready to go.
If you want fixed, go DD. KAC or Troy for folding. Buy once, cry once. You'll be thankful that your shit works when you need it most. |
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Posted: 2/5/2018 9:19:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They cost what the market will bear. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 12:18:26 AM EDT
[#20]
I used to put BUIS on all my rifles and would have been displeased without them. Now that I am more familiar with ACOGs and Aimpoints and various mounting options I trust them enough that I don't worry about BUIS.
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Posted: 2/6/2018 4:20:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Definitely wanted flip-ups, but had about convinced myself I could do with out in my situation, especially after failing at trying to order the MBUS set with the PSA deal. For some reason, the site kept running me around in circles, demanded that I customize my order, but didn't give me any customization options
 . For some reason, I decided to check in at PSA again this morning, still had the same deal going, and this time it went through. So I have a set on the way, whether I need them or not. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Later.
Dave |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 8:35:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just as an observation, I'd wager to say that BUIS are the one rifle accessory that has the highest adoption and lowest use rate in the AR world. I put a set of offsets on my 3-gun rifle just to save a second here or there on magnification transitions. Otherwise I have no use for them. Most of us would be better off putting that money towards a higher quality primary optic. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 8:35:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I recently had a reticle come loose (I go to look through it and reticle was atc45 degrees and shakes around like it's loose). It was on an optics only AR that I had built for hunting. I thought " man, that would suck to happen on a guided hunt I'd payed good money for" so now I just put A.R.M.S. 71l buis on it today. I also just put a gg&g MAD BUIS on another m4 that previacly only had an optic. No scense ending a hunting trip early because the optic fails. The cheapest acceptable buis I found are utg. They aren't great, but they seem to be servicable. Springfield uses a utg rear buis on the saint. They're $20. I have that sight and the matching from on one gun that I only use optics on. I also have a utg fixed from sight (lmt clone) on one rifle that is irons only. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 8:37:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever had your batteries die, before during or after a match? Preventative maintenance really helps avoid this but I thought I'd ask. Is replacing them part of your pre-match prep? Personally, I am so sensitized to red dot failures because of my EOTech experiences, I don't trust any of them ...
but my Aimpoint just keeps cranking along  .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
been driving since 1986. Had 2 flats total. been in 1 accident. Never deployed a airbag. never had to use my BUIS because my optic broke. Been shooting AR's 25 years. Always take 2 identical rifles to every match... Thats way cheaper than a $80 MBUS set.  Personally, I am so sensitized to red dot failures because of my EOTech experiences, I don't trust any of them ...
but my Aimpoint just keeps cranking along .I guess if I did take my red dot equipped gun to a match I might go ahead and throw in a new battery if it had been a while. Current battery has only been in a month or two. |
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Posted: 2/12/2018 3:33:47 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get all-metal TROY BUIS for right around $100. I have TROY and YHM. IMO, both are quite good. |
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Posted: 2/17/2018 11:58:00 PM EDT
[#26]
For cheap BUIS, I’ve had great results from both the Magpul MBUS and the Fab Defense flip ups.
The Magpuls are spring loaded and lock upright while the Fab Defense are a friction lock. Both work well. I do prefer the Fab Defense front sight’s thumb wheel adjuster over the Magpul which just uses friction on the sight post, although the Magpul can be swapped with aftermarket posts. I also run a Troy DOA rear flip up. Costs more, but it’s a nice metal sight that folds flatter than the poly rear flip ups. I ran one of the older UTG GI type metal rear flip up, after a few trips it would fold under recoil. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 12:00:09 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 2/18/2018 12:18:27 AM EDT
[#28]
the OP hasnt posted in a week, but if anyone needs a MBUS, PSA has the sets for about 50 bucks right now.
code mbusset takes 43 off of the price. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:30:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryHas anyone verified that these are not fakes? That's a damn good price!
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Posted: 2/18/2018 11:53:45 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone verified that these are not fakes? That's a damn good price! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 2/18/2018 2:43:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote Historydang, hell of a price. Had to order! thanks for posting this. 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:19:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
dang, hell of a price. Had to order! thanks for posting this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:27:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
USMC KAC sights are stolen gov't property. That's why you will see tons on eBay with few folks touching them compared to other KAC sights. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:35:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you suggesting that this vendor is selling stolen property? https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC_Marked_KAC_Micro_Rear_Sights__verification_they_are_all_Gov_Property__/381-227893/ Why would these sights sell for half of what other KAC rear sights sell for? |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:47:20 AM EDT
[#35]
These are decent.
Aero for $99 shipped |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:49:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not knowingly. But straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC_Marked_KAC_Micro_Rear_Sights__verification_they_are_all_Gov_Property__/381-227893/ Why would these sights sell for half of what other KAC rear sights sell for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are you suggesting that this vendor is selling stolen property? https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC_Marked_KAC_Micro_Rear_Sights__verification_they_are_all_Gov_Property__/381-227893/ Why would these sights sell for half of what other KAC rear sights sell for? |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:49:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not knowingly. But straight from the horse's mouth: https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC_Marked_KAC_Micro_Rear_Sights__verification_they_are_all_Gov_Property__/381-227893/ Why would these sights sell for half of what other KAC rear sights sell for? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are you suggesting that this vendor is selling stolen property? https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC_Marked_KAC_Micro_Rear_Sights__verification_they_are_all_Gov_Property__/381-227893/ Why would these sights sell for half of what other KAC rear sights sell for? |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 12:10:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It says they are used. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It says they are used. Quoted:
You know if this was a eBay vendor or someone one the EE with a couple, I could believe that but I doubt a vendor would get enough of these to list and them be stolen. Listen, I don't really care what you guys do. You can probably buy these all day and never get a knock at the door. But when KB and Trey are calling them stolen, I think I would listen. 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 3:08:19 PM EDT
[#39]
This is why I don't jump on these deals or trades when they look to be stolen USGI property.
I once bought 10 Matechs for $10 each and had no shame because the seller was DRMO. Got a few ACOG's that way too. But it was legal and legit. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:00:26 PM EDT
[#40]
contact ar15.com HQ and have the vendor banned if they are doing something unethical/illegal.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 7:02:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
contact ar15.com HQ and have the vendor banned if they are doing something unethical/illegal. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 7:27:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you know if you are concern about a product, reach out to the vendor and get any clarification you need. THEN... if it turns out to be shady contact the site owners. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
contact ar15.com HQ and have the vendor banned if they are doing something unethical/illegal. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 7:43:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
doing that right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
contact ar15.com HQ and have the vendor banned if they are doing something unethical/illegal. 
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Posted: 2/21/2018 6:17:24 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
contact ar15.com HQ and have the vendor banned if they are doing something unethical/illegal. Sometimes the military has surplus sales when they no longer use certain items. These were acquired through a surplus sale |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 7:44:32 PM EDT
[#45]
sounds legit to me.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 7:46:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sounds legit to me. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:33:01 PM EDT
[#47]
because it's faster than taking them yourself and then uploading/hosting? I dunno, but that'd be my guess. It's prolly a low profit margin item. Putting in extra work on it might not be worth their time.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 12:59:39 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
been driving since 1986. Had 2 flats total. been in 1 accident. Never deployed a airbag. never had to use my BUIS because my optic broke. Been shooting AR's 25 years. Always take 2 identical rifles to every match... Thats way cheaper than a $80 MBUS set. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:13:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This man has a clue. 
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Posted: 2/23/2018 10:20:40 AM EDT
[#50]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/USMC-Rear-Sights-Verdict-/381-287161/?r=-1&page=1&anc=3300221#i3300221
I don't think it can get much clearer than this. |
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