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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
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Posted: 9/7/2017 3:22:13 PM EDT
This looks like a great scope, other than the push button illumination, but I can't find ANY reviews of it (just the non-HD version).
Does anyone know if it's RED-DOT bright in daylight?
Anyone seen a review?  I see nothing on YouTube except ShotShow stuff.
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 2:16:27 AM EDT
[#1]
I ordered one and promptly returned it. It's not daylight bright (although the reticle is bold enough that it probably doesn't really matter), it has more fisheye at 1x than the cheaper Steiner P4xi or a Vortex Razor HD II, and that push-button brightness adjustment method is just... bad. That being said, the glass was very clear at 6x, and the throw lever design seems pretty solid. Honestly, I think if they made it so that the illumination was only for the center dot (and either not illuminate or remove the semi-circle portion of the reticle), it probably would be daylight bright.
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 10:00:15 AM EDT
[#2]
I can deal with the button ONLY because of the auto-shut-off is an ice feature.
This is the first I'd heard of fisheye. The VX-6 1-6 was supposed to be great and about as close to 1X as anything, so I'd hoped this would be the same or better.
I'm actually going to compare it to a P4xi and keep the "winner".

VX-6HD pros:
6X
Lightweight
Bigger eyebox
(I MAY can get reticle changed to red firedot BDC for $200....this assumes red firedot IS red-dot bright).

P4xi pros:
Better illumination and illum-knob.
--
Glass and 1X are gonna seal the deal.
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 11:20:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Looking forward to your thoughts as this is an optic I'm very interested in  (mostly because of the awesomely low weight)

I've been looking for reviews since it was announced and am really surprised that there are NONE yet
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 12:28:05 PM EDT
[#4]
I'll get something posted. I'll do a head to head (however unfair) between the P4xi and the VX-6HD.
The only other LPVOs I've owned are the MTAC, TAC-30, TR-24, and Accupower 1-4.
My biggest question will be how does the CMR2 reticle do up-close compared to the red-dot bright P4xi (since 95% of my shooting is done inside 100Y).
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 2:23:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Thank you! That is precisely what I have been looking for.

Most of my experience is with a red dot and tac light so I am very interested to see how this compares. Particularly at night if possible.
Link Posted: 9/8/2017 10:14:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This is the first I'd heard of fisheye.
View Quote
Fisheye probably wasn't the right word. What I mean is that there was noticeable distortion.
Link Posted: 9/9/2017 6:46:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'll get something posted. I'll do a head to head (however unfair) between the P4xi and the VX-6HD.
The only other LPVOs I've owned are the MTAC, TAC-30, TR-24, and Accupower 1-4.
My biggest question will be how does the CMR2 reticle do up-close compared to the red-dot bright P4xi (since 95% of my shooting is done inside 100Y).
View Quote
Shooting 200 yds and under, all you need is a good day light visible dot. Unless a match director puts out REAL small targets at 100-200 yds, anything over 3-4x gets you lost you need more field of vision over magnification.

If you set up with a 200 yd. zero all you need to do is put the dot on the target. I never use my reticale on my Razor until I am past 300 yds. I just learned where to place the dot.
Link Posted: 9/9/2017 3:40:47 PM EDT
[#8]
I have 2 of them in the non hd version
Like them a lot
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 3:26:10 PM EDT
[#9]
double.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 3:27:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Alright, I have my STEINER P4xi 1-4 in an Aero-precision mount (20.5 ounces) and the Leupy VX-6HD 1-6 in a GG&G FLT bolt-on (18.9 ounces).

To put it bluntly, I'm having a hard time deciding which to keep. It could be a coin toss.
Two things make it tough for me:
1) I'm not a huge glass snob, so at this level of quality, I'm having a hard time figuring out which is really best (I have a friend who's spent more time with scopes, and I'm wondering if he'll detect a difference).
2) I'm also messing with the placement to see if I can determine a clear winner in eye-box...the Leupold SEEMS to be winning, but I'm not 100% sure yet (both are non-QD, so it's hard to compare--need to borrow another AR).

In the head-to-head comparison, they're basically a tie:

STEINER P4xi 1-4 ($463):  20.5 ounces
mounted in an AeroPrecision UltraLight extended mount.

PROS--what everyone says...great glass; great reticle for up close and still good for ranging at distance; it's the best "red dot" bright daylight visible dot I've seen (I know a few >$1600 ones are as good).
CONS--a little heavier than the Leupy (my mounts make up for this), 2X smaller, and the eyebox seems like it's a hair smaller at 1X (though I'm still messing with the placement of the scope); brightness knob is mushy, but easy enough to work (I'd worry a bit about overturning it back to an "off" position).

LEUPOLD VX-6HD 1-6 ($1219):  18.9 ounces mounted in a GG&G FLT bolt-on (non-QD mount -- these were tested as insanely solid; I think of it as a poor-man's Geisselle).

PROS--seems like equally good glass; great reticle for ranging at distance and good close-up; very lightweight (like 13.5 ounces); extra 2X is really nice for recognizing stuff past 300 yards.
CONS--reticle does wash out about 66% in bright daylight looking at a dark target (but glass is so clear you can actually see the black reticle ON the darkness); eyebox isn't quite as forgiving as what I'm used to with Accupoint 1-4 and MTAC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF both were worth the same amount of money, I'd put them on the EE together and sell which sold first. I can totally live very happily with either.
My DREAM scope would be the LEUPY with ONLY the center dot lit up JUST like the STEINER dot (same size and brightness).

In reality, you can "tube" shoot anyone at in-house distances of less than 12Y just by centering them in the scope, so Home Defense is a almost a tie between the bright STEINER and the larger segmented circle reticle of the Leupold (the overall 3Y-50Y edge has to go to the bright Steiner IMO, but the Leupy is closer to what I'm used to with the Accupower and MTAC).
The hash-marks on the Leupold are much easier to see but they don't seem bigger, so it's a lot easier to get on the 600Y hash-mark (I was putting the 600 mark almost on the bottom of my target, and ringing a 12"x18" steel at 540 yards--the Leupy was much faster and had fewer fast follow-up misses due to the reticle and the extra 2X).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which to keep???
My thinking is that I'd only lose $30 on the STEINER, but I'd probably lose $100-$150 on the LEUPOLD, so I should sell the former and keep the latter. But another part of me says take the hit, sell the LEUPY, and spend the extra money on bills and ammo.  

ETA:  
Since there's NO real data on the VX-6HD online, I called Leupold. I was told the exit pupil was 24mm to 6mm. I told them that this was true in theory, but impossible in reality. He's going to get back with me after talking to an engineer.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:05:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Unless you need the bright illumination of the P4Xi, I'd keep the Leupold.  I've been shooting with it a lot recently and like it more and more.  I do wish the illumination was brighter and the reticle lines weren't as thick though but appreciate the weight savings.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:06:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Alright, I have my STEINER P4xi 1-4 in an Aero-precision mount (20.5 ounces) and the Leupy VX-6HD 1-6 in a GG&G FLT bolt-on (18.9 ounces).

To put it bluntly, I'm having a hard time deciding which to keep. It could be a coin toss.
Two things make it tough for me:
1) I'm not a huge glass snob, so at this level of quality, I'm having a hard time figuring out which is really best (I have a friend who's spent more time with scopes, and I'm wondering if he'll detect a difference).
2) I'm also messing with the placement to see if I can determine a clear winner in eye-box...the Leupold SEEMS to be winning, but I'm not 100% sure yet (both are non-QD, so it's hard to compare--need to borrow another AR).

In the head-to-head comparison, they're basically a tie:

STEINER P4xi 1-4 ($463):  20.5 ounces
mounted in an AeroPrecision UltraLight extended mount.

PROS--what everyone says...great glass; great reticle for up close and still good for ranging at distance; it's the best "red dot" bright daylight visible dot I've seen (I know a few >$1600 ones are as good).
CONS--a little heavier than the Leupy (my mounts make up for this), 2X smaller, and the eyebox seems like it's a hair smaller at 1X (though I'm still messing with the placement of the scope); brightness knob is mushy, but easy enough to work (I'd worry a bit about overturning it back to an "off" position).

LEUPOLD VX-6HD 1-6 ($1219):  18.9 ounces mounted in a GG&G FLT bolt-on (non-QD mount -- these were tested as insanely solid; I think of it as a poor-man's Geisselle).

PROS--seems like equally good glass; great reticle for ranging at distance and good close-up; very lightweight (like 13.5 ounces); extra 2X is really nice for recognizing stuff past 300 yards.
CONS--reticle does wash out about 66% in bright daylight looking at a dark target (but glass is so clear you can actually see the black reticle ON the darkness); eyebox isn't quite as forgiving as what I'm used to with Accupoint 1-4 and MTAC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF both were worth the same amount of money, I'd put them on the EE together and sell which sold first. I can totally live very happily with either.
My DREAM scope would be the LEUPY with ONLY the center dot lit up JUST like the STEINER dot (same size and brightness).

In reality, you can "tube" shoot anyone at in-house distances of less than 12Y just by centering them in the scope, so Home Defense is a almost a tie between the bright STEINER and the larger segmented circle reticle of the Leupold (the overall 3Y-50Y edge has to go to the bright Steiner IMO, but the Leupy is closer to what I'm used to with the Accupower and MTAC).
The hash-marks on the Leupold are much easier to see but they don't seem bigger, so it's a lot easier to get on the 600Y hash-mark (I was putting the 600 mark almost on the bottom of my target, and ringing a 12"x18" steel at 540 yards--the Leupy was much faster and had fewer fast follow-up misses due to the reticle and the extra 2X).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which to keep???
My thinking is that I'd only lose $30 on the STEINER, but I'd probably lose $100-$150 on the LEUPOLD, so I should sell the former and keep the latter. But another part of me says take the hit, sell the LEUPY, and spend the extra money on bills and ammo.  
View Quote
There's a VX6 HD on the EE that just won't sell. IMO people are of the opinion that the Leupolds just aren't worth that price. I read a comparison from a shooter that has used both and he said there was pretty much no difference between the VX6 and VX6 HD glass. The original VX6 could be had for $800-900 new so if the person who compared the two is correct this is just a money grab for Leopold. 
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 4:41:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Are you sure about a VX-6HD on the EE?  I just did a search (leupold, vx6, and vx-6) and couldn't find a single one--or I would have bought it (assuming he wanted less than $1200). All I see are Mark 6s.

I have a friend who is a glass snob. He's the guy I want to compare the P4xi to the Leupy.
He's got the old VX6, a US Optics 1-4, a higher power Nightforce (?), and a Kahles 1-6.

He's looked through my VX6HD. I thought they looked similar at 50-100Y, but mine was better at 1X (his had more fisheye-magnification when scanning bushes-and-leafy-limbs-coming-towards-you inside of 5 yards).

He thinks the VX-6HD glass is better at the edges and the color is brighter--that it would perform better in low light (we only shot until about 6pm)....I didn't see any difference in brightness and both edges looked fine to me. But he got his for $900, and there's definitely not a $300 difference in the glass. The only other differences we noticed was that his reticle washed out a bit more (could be an older battery issue) and that my turrets were "more advanced" (not sure if they're better since this doesn't matter to me--I'm never going to adjust them!!!).

NOTE:  I couldn't see a difference between the VX-6HD and Kahles 1-6 except in the thinness of the "circle" around the glass; he says the Kahles' superior glass is definitely noticeable.
But I'm starting to think it's like wine, and there's diminishing returns after $1000 with scopes (with wine I've heard differences are tiny after like $30).
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 5:03:15 PM EDT
[#14]
SUPERSET72:   based on your insanely great videos online (as SupersetCA), your endorsement of the Leupold is some high-praise.
Also, I think you have the green firedot VX-6, which did have thicker lines compared to the CMR2's lines.
I like the GG&G mount because I know it's bomb-proof, but I may put it in the AP mount and have a 16.6 ounce set-up.  
:)
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 8:09:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Unless you need the bright illumination of the P4Xi, I'd keep the Leupold.  I've been shooting with it a lot recently and like it more and more.  I do wish the illumination was brighter and the reticle lines weren't as thick though but appreciate the weight savings.
View Quote
Please unretire your video productions.  Carry on. LOL
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 8:11:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Which reticle did you go with? CMR2?

Leupold VX-6HD 1-6x24 MultiGun 171555
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 10:09:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Yeah, mine is the 171555 with CMR2 reticle.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 10:10:33 PM EDT
[#18]
I also just want to say that the supersetCA youtube videos are phenomenal.  They are they reason I decided to give the LPVO a try (went accupoint 1-6).
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 3:58:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Much appreciated, fellas. Hope you guys enjoy your scopes!
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 4:18:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I ordered one and promptly returned it. It's not daylight bright (although the reticle is bold enough that it probably doesn't really matter), it has more fisheye at 1x than the cheaper Steiner P4xi or a Vortex Razor HD II, and that push-button brightness adjustment method is just... bad. That being said, the glass was very clear at 6x, and the throw lever design seems pretty solid. Honestly, I think if they made it so that the illumination was only for the center dot (and either not illuminate or remove the semi-circle portion of the reticle), it probably would be daylight bright.
View Quote
You know they do make a VX6HD 1-6×24 just like you describe don't you? And it is daylight bright like Steiner.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 8:42:39 PM EDT
[#21]
If you're talking about the green firedot, the dot is ALMOST daylight visible but not quite when in brightness and looking into a dark area.
It also has thicker lines/hashmarks/stadia.

I might consider a red firedot with the same BDC as this model.
Link Posted: 9/21/2017 12:53:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You know they do make a VX6HD 1-6×24 just like you describe don't you? And it is daylight bright like Steiner.
View Quote
Yes, but I prefer a red dot over a green dot, and the BDC doesn't match up with my ammo. The main reason I was interested in the CMR2 version was that the BDC matched up (at least theoretically/according to Strelok+) within 5 yards out to the 600 yard stadia.
Link Posted: 9/23/2017 2:59:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah, mine is the 171555 with CMR2 reticle.
View Quote
Where did you purchase it? It is OOS everywhere I have looked.
Link Posted: 9/28/2017 7:48:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Gun Pro Deals had it for a good price.
Link Posted: 10/15/2017 9:48:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are you sure about a VX-6HD on the EE?  I just did a search (leupold, vx6, and vx-6) and couldn't find a single one--or I would have bought it (assuming he wanted less than $1200). All I see are Mark 6s.
View Quote
I believe he was referring to my listing.  It's still for sale if interested.  I sent you an email with link but here it is if others are interested:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/FS-updated-listing-New-Leupold-VX-6-1-6-HD-FireDot-G-BDC-with-new-Aero-Ultralight-Mount/23-1666848/

Jason
Link Posted: 11/8/2017 10:50:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Since there's NO real data on the VX-6HD online, I called Leupold. I was told the exit pupil was 24mm to 6mm. I told them that this was true in theory, but impossible in reality. He's going to get back with me after talking to an engineer.
View Quote
Can you expand on this? I'm just getting into variable optics and I'm having some trouble finding information on the engineering of glass.

Thanks!
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