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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2013 9:55:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: pezboytate]
I thought it would be nice to have a visualization of different zeros for comparison. I have seen trajectories and a few images of where to aim but I think having a lot of them together would be better for comparison.
The X is center mass, the red dot is where you need to aim to hit center of mass, and the black dot is where you would hit if you did aim at center mass. A 25m/25y zero is comparable to the 300m zero. A 50m/50y zero is comparable to the 200m zero. A 75m/75y zero would be in between the 100m and 150m zero. These are all with the target the same size:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileThese are all with the reticle the same size:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileTrijicon reticles:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileElcan reticles:  Attached File Attached FileVortex reticles:  Attached File Attached File Attached FileACSS reticles:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileUS Army Qualification Holds:  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileIf anyone sees any errors, please let me know. I will make a few more later so if there are any requests let me know. I can do different size targets, more ranges, different rounds, different zeros, etc. Dustin |
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Posted: 5/29/2013 11:46:38 AM EDT
[#1]
That is good info, thanks for posting it.
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Posted: 5/29/2013 11:52:55 AM EDT
[#2]
I prefer a 200yd zero on anything with magnification, it puts me the closest to POA consistently from zero to ~250 without any adjustment.
I usually zero red dots/holographics at 100yd, but my CQ 2/3gun SBR is zeroed around 50yd. |
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Posted: 5/29/2013 12:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Andr0id]
[#3]
I would love to see the XM193 50yd/200m zero recommended by Eotech.
I guess that may be the 200m you already posted. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2013 12:32:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Andr0id:
I would love to see the XM193 50yd/200m zero recommended by Eotech. I guess that may be the 200m you already posted. I want to do them all with the EoTech 65 MOA reticle as well for scale. The M193 will be slightly different, especially out of a longer barrel. I want to confirm the hold over/under before making a shooter's perspective as well. |
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Posted: 5/29/2013 12:38:51 PM EDT
[#5]
tag to view later/ not on my phone
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Posted: 5/29/2013 1:53:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Nice post! That gives a great visual. Which zero do you prefer for a non magnified optic, like my 4moa Aimpoint?
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2013 2:17:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pezboytate]
[#7]
Originally Posted By dash13:
Nice post! That gives a great visual. Which zero do you prefer for a non magnified optic, like my 4moa Aimpoint? All have their advantages and disadvantages. For iron sights I prefer a 300m or 200m zero and for red dots I prefer a 200m or 100m zero. All of my magnified optics have BDC so there really isn't a zero but I leave them at 200m or 300m. For close quarters and the ability to make head shots or shots through small windows a 100m or 200m zero is best. For the ability to make hits out to 400+m a 300m zero is best but you give up accuracy up close. Another consideration is that with the 200m and 300m zero you have hold unders up close and hold overs far out which can be hard to quickly remember. With a 100m zero there are only hold overs. This is why iron sights are better with a 200m or 300m zero since the sights cover the target with hold overs. If you are using adjustable irons or a BDC optic zero for elevation at the farthest range possible and then change to 100m or 200m after. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/29/2013 2:47:33 PM EDT
[#8]
For a magnified scope, I zero at 100 and use the ranging lines on the reticle for my holdovers. For original iron sights, 25M/300M. For 1X red-dot and BUIS, 50M/200M. The 50/200 is the most useful zero for 1X and BUIS as you can see by your nice graphic. It's a flat trajectory with good hits out to 250 without holdover. Considering you will be using M193, don't be surprised if your groups with a 4 MOA dot are big, making it difficult to find the center of the groups for the purpose of adjusting the sights. You might consider a 1:7 barrel for the heavier loads, M855 and up to 77gr. A barrel for M193 should be 1:9 and it will be good for 62gr M855 too.
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Posted: 5/29/2013 6:31:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
[#9]
....
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Posted: 5/29/2013 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Very nice.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2013 2:35:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Updated
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Posted: 5/31/2013 7:45:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Just out of curiosity, how did you create these graphics? They are great! I like the ones where you keep the dot the same and change the size of the target. This is a concept that seems to be lost on a lot of people. You can estimate range by comparing the sight to the target.
For sights/scopes with external adjustments I prefer to know the number of clicks for each range. For quicker shooting it is good however to also know what part of the sight to align with what part of the target. Look up the terms "maximum point blank range" or "battle sight zero" for a good discussion of where to put you zero when there is no time to adjust between shots. For better ballistics info, you could put your data into a ballistics calculator. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2013 10:42:46 PM EDT
[#13]
I used a drafting program that is very accurate. I found what 1 MOA was at 100m and used ratios to put the proper size dot with the proper size target. The only part I had to estimate was the thickness of the EoTech's outer ring. The rise and drop were taken from a ballistics calculator. The trajectory charts I have seen online look like way less drop but I believe this is because they use a longer barrel, M193 and yards instead of meters most of the time. I think I will do iron sights next.
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Posted: 6/3/2013 7:55:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Knife_Sniper]
[#14]
Those are great!
Here is my video of a 2MOA dot with a 50 yard zero. I have some representation of the dots added into the video to show the viewer my hold. I found it much easier to score hits out to 400 yards with a red dot than iron sights. 
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Posted: 6/3/2013 9:48:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Excellent post for beginners learning their holdovers and experienced guys revising.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 10/24/2013 4:16:43 PM EDT
[#16]
BTT
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Posted: 10/24/2013 8:54:16 PM EDT
[#17]
These would be excellent training aids pezboytate. Nice job!
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Posted: 10/24/2013 10:09:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Should be tacked.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2013 8:20:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: stlb55]
[#19]
I enjoyed Nate's video on a 50 yard zero. Having a +/- of 2" out to 250 yards sounds great for how I want to use my rifle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG9bax0TcXc |
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Posted: 10/25/2013 9:57:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stlb55: I enjoyed Nate's video on a 50 yard zero. Having a +/- of 2" out to 250 yards sounds great for how I want to use my rifle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG9bax0TcXc |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:04:30 AM EDT
[#21]
BTT
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IN, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2014 1:43:31 PM EDT
[#22]
New images added. Any requests or suggestions are welcome.
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Posted: 2/5/2014 4:27:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Thanks for posting. Any chance you'll craft a chart for the Elcan Specter DR?
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Posted: 2/5/2014 4:38:57 PM EDT
[#24]
This is an AWESOME thread! I'm glad it was resurrected!
Thanks!!!! |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 2/5/2014 9:50:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Awesome. This needs to be a sticky. Seriously.
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Posted: 2/5/2014 10:13:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iiiwildfireiii:
Awesome. This needs to be a sticky. Seriously. Huge +1. The visuals are outstanding. I can't believe this is the first time I came across this thread. |
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Posted: 2/25/2014 9:49:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Bump for a great topic.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/25/2014 10:19:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Great post , thanks.
ACOG horseshoe reticle next , perhaps? |
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Posted: 2/25/2014 11:00:21 AM EDT
[#29]
Great thread. Thanks for the work you've put into it.
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Posted: 2/25/2014 8:39:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Awesome!
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AL, USA
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Posted: 2/25/2014 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Thanks op. this should be stickied. Is it me or does the acog seem so much user friendly
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/5/2014 11:00:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Updated
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Posted: 3/5/2014 3:26:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Bravo, sir! Thank you...this should be a sticky and updated as needed!
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IN, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2014 2:24:40 PM EDT
[#34]
BTT
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Posted: 5/7/2014 6:11:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Sticky please?
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Posted: 5/8/2014 1:14:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Holy crap, thank you!!!
Sticky! |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2014 3:34:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RDTCU:
I prefer a 200yd zero on anything with magnification, it puts me the closest to POA consistently from zero to ~250 without any adjustment. I usually zero red dots/holographics at 100yd, but my CQ 2/3gun SBR is zeroed around 50yd. Why would you deviate from the manufacturers recommended zero procedure? Making the BDC meaningless? Do you think you understand their product better than they do? I am curious.... I understand your desire to not think about it... But a bit of advice, you might want to think about it so you actually understand what is happening and can hit things at any distance. It is amazing to me how many people on arfcom dont understand the line of sight to trajectory thing at all, even some of our seasoned posters. Id bet its more than 50%.... |
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Posted: 5/24/2014 2:34:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Any plans for the Elcan with the chevron?
Good write up. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2014 12:09:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision:
Any plans for the Elcan with the chevron? Good write up. Post a link to the reticle you are referring to and I'll see what I can do. |
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Posted: 6/9/2014 12:07:19 AM EDT
[#40]
This is the Reticle. Also how would this correspond with my 10.5 sbr?
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Posted: 6/14/2014 8:54:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Nice. Tag.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2014 1:42:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision:
This is the Reticle. Also how would this correspond with my 10.5 sbr? http://www.eurooptic.com/images/reticles/Elcan-reticle.jpg Do you know if that is calibrated for a 14.5" barrel with M855? What round are you using with your 10.5" barrel? |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2014 6:09:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Hmm very interesting. ill keep this in mind when picking an optic for 3 gun competitions
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Posted: 6/17/2014 11:04:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Do you know if that is calibrated for a 14.5" barrel with M855? What round are you using with your 10.5" barrel? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By DirtDivision:
This is the Reticle. Also how would this correspond with my 10.5 sbr? http://www.eurooptic.com/images/reticles/Elcan-reticle.jpg Do you know if that is calibrated for a 14.5" barrel with M855? What round are you using with your 10.5" barrel? The Elcan manual says its calibrated for M855 out of an M4 barrel so im going to say yes. I shoot mostly xm193 out of this gun. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2014 12:09:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision:
The Elcan manual says its calibrated for M855 out of an M4 barrel so im going to say yes. I shoot mostly xm193 out of this gun. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DirtDivision:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By DirtDivision:
This is the Reticle. Also how would this correspond with my 10.5 sbr? http://www.eurooptic.com/images/reticles/Elcan-reticle.jpg Do you know if that is calibrated for a 14.5" barrel with M855? What round are you using with your 10.5" barrel? The Elcan manual says its calibrated for M855 out of an M4 barrel so im going to say yes. I shoot mostly xm193 out of this gun. Got it done except one last thing. What distance are you zeroed at? |
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Posted: 6/19/2014 2:29:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Got it done except one last thing. What distance are you zeroed at? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By DirtDivision:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By DirtDivision:
This is the Reticle. Also how would this correspond with my 10.5 sbr? http://www.eurooptic.com/images/reticles/Elcan-reticle.jpg Do you know if that is calibrated for a 14.5" barrel with M855? What round are you using with your 10.5" barrel? The Elcan manual says its calibrated for M855 out of an M4 barrel so im going to say yes. I shoot mostly xm193 out of this gun. Got it done except one last thing. What distance are you zeroed at? TO be honest right now I'm dialed in for 75 yards but will change my zero if i get something good i can work with. Right now irons and Elcan are at 75. I haven't done any shooting further than that because to be honest i don't know how my ammunition performs in the 10.5 barrel. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2014 3:42:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pezboytate]
[#47]
I went ahead and did it for 100m. If my ballistic calculations and math are right, it looks like you would be able to make hits out to 300m. The Mil lines on the sight look to be about the width of a torso at 50m as well.
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/6/2014 11:19:34 AM EDT
[#48]
BTT
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 1:41:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: M1MAN70]
[#49]
Can anyone tell me if the TA31ECOS red crosshair BDC, from the 600m-100m range for the M240 SAW, would be accurate if shot out of a 16" AR barrel?
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CT, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 12:00:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Really is a fantastic thread. Checking it out again as I had it bookmarked.
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