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Posted: 7/7/2007 8:08:48 PM EDT
[#1]
ElRodCod
Actually.. it's not... that is my point. you have to make sight changes depending on the range of the target.. which means you need to know the range of the target first to make those corrections on your sight. With the Standard IBZ I just aim center mass out to 200M and Press.....That is easy... especially under time constraints or duress or both. No range to estimate.. no sight knobs to turn.. just acquire target and engage..... |
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Posted: 7/8/2007 4:39:34 PM EDT
[#2]
1. Absolutely. 2. Here's a graph showing all three.  |
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Posted: 7/8/2007 6:11:49 PM EDT
[#3]
thanks!
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Posted: 7/9/2007 8:25:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ElrodCod]
[#4]
You're not getting it! Read the thread opener again. The 50 yard rear sight setting is for zeroing in your front sight. The RIBZ gives you the 100 yard option because 99.99% of rifle ranges have a 100 yard range & with that setting your groups will be centered on the target, i.e., the point of impact = point of aim. Other than that, it's the same as the IBZ. Set your sight @ 6/3 w/ the large aperature & you're good to go out to 200 yds for center mass. If you can't see the advantage of setting up your sights this way then stick to what you've been doing. |
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Posted: 7/9/2007 2:38:54 PM EDT
[#5]
is this possible on an LMT rear buis?
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Posted: 7/9/2007 4:53:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Should be. The LMT, RRA stand alone,& similar sight from Bushmaster are just "chopped carry handle" A2 type sights. |
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Posted: 8/14/2007 12:43:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't personally own one of the LMT rear sights, but as mentioned above it should work. You'll just need to use the click settings for the removable carry handle sight. |
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Posted: 9/1/2007 3:03:11 AM EDT
[#8]
OK, I believe this is where I want to ask this.
I have this down for A2 sites. How does this apply to BUIS? I have the MI BUIS and the A2 FSB. There is no elevation on the flip BUIS (I'm sure you are all famliar). There are 2 witness holes to choose. The larger of the two is marked 0-2. If I site my 16" in at 25 yds with the larger hole (0-2) does that mean the smaller hole isautomatically set (or in the same ball park) for 100 yds? Secondly if I set it for 50 yds would it be 50/200? Am I totally wrong all together? The more I read about the A2 siting the more I was thinking about getting a different rear site. That right up was fantastic. Thanks for all the help! |
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Posted: 9/2/2007 6:26:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Should I start a new thread? I'll give it another day or so. |
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Posted: 9/3/2007 11:57:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#10]
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Posted: 9/3/2007 4:31:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Intimdtr77]
[#11]
OK those answered my questions but created more!
So if I use the smallest hole and site it in for 50 yds what does that do for the larger one? Should I even use the larger hole? If using the smaller hole and a stanard pie plate (8"??) for 100 yds is hitting the plate alone acceptable or or should I be a beter shot? I know, practice makes perfect. |
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Posted: 9/5/2007 3:52:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#12]
Flipping to the large aperture after zeroing with the small aperture lowers the trajectory by 2.5 MOA as shown below. 
That depends on what you want from your sights. Using the large aperture, you gain speed but lose precision. If you do use the large aperture with an adjustable A2 rear sight after zeroing at 50 yards with the small aperture, simply raise the the rear sight by 3 clicks (depending on your make of sights) to obtain the IBZ with the large aperture.
I fired the group pictured below from 100 yards using the iron sights (small aperture) on an M16A2 upper. The 9-ring measures 6.5" on that target. The X-ring measures 1.5".  |
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Posted: 9/5/2007 4:00:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
[#13]
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:03:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Thank you. I think I am all set.
I think I will be looking for a different BUIS with elevation adjustment on it. My current one does not have it. My goal was to get used to using by BUIS. When that happens I will then buy a EOTech. What good are BUIS unless I can use tehm properly. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:21:44 AM EDT
[#15]
OKay I tried this out yesturday, I thought I understood it, but is my front sight post supposed to be so far below my FSB?? Am I doing this wrong?
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:37:13 AM EDT
[#16]
The easiest and simplest way to go is to buy a BUIS that is of the SAME PLANE, such as the Troy, ARMS #40L-SP, etc. With these sights, you can zero your AR with the small or larger aperature and it doesn't matter since they are on the same plane. |
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:39:08 AM EDT
[#17]
.
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:39:09 AM EDT
[#18]
What front sight do you have? What rear sight do you have? As long as your point of aim and point of impact is 50 yards, you should be good to go. Depending on what front sight you have, you may need a taller front sight post. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2007 3:47:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rifleguy81]
[#19]
Well the upper is a Bushmaster, however that doesnt mean the post is, maybe if I dont lollypop my sight on the target, and actually raise my front sight post so the top of the post will shot POA/POI on the 10 ring (@ 200 meters), that will give my post a little more height??
EDIT: I have A2 upper |
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Posted: 9/6/2007 4:18:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Since you have the A2, you should be fine. Did you set-up the rear sight as per the instructions? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/6/2007 8:13:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Yes I set it up exactly, now Ill just need a few minutes at the range tomorrow to readjust my front sight post. Thanks for all your help.
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Posted: 9/6/2007 9:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#22]
The sighting schemes presented in this thread are based on point of aim equals point of impact (or center hold), not a 6 o'clock or "lollypop" hold. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/24/2007 11:56:51 PM EDT
[#23]
i found this article Interesting.
would like to hear comments on this one. www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/accessories/sights-scopes/articles/1298015/ |
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Posted: 9/25/2007 5:13:47 PM EDT
[#24]
What's there to comment about. Scroll back up to Molon's chart.....not much different than what the guy says in the article. |
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Posted: 9/26/2007 1:11:52 AM EDT
[#25]
So I'm still kinda confused with all this. If I have an detachable carry handle and don't want to mess with the 100 yard, 25 yard, etc than can I just put it on 6/3 and zero at 50 yards and have the flattest trajectory from 0-200?
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Posted: 9/26/2007 8:52:57 AM EDT
[#26]
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. With a detachable A2 carry handle there is a four click difference in elevation between the small and large apertures. If you zero @ 50 yards with the small aperture you'll need to set the rear sight at 6/3 minus four clicks (assuming your sight doesn't bottom out before then....if it does, you'll have to reset the elevation index wheel) then when you set the sight @ 6/3 and use the large aperture you'll be good to go. You could just set the sight @ 6/3 & zero w/ the large aperture. |
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Posted: 10/8/2007 2:17:47 AM EDT
[#27]
^
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Posted: 10/17/2007 8:11:32 PM EDT
[#28]
..
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Posted: 10/27/2007 11:58:33 AM EDT
[#29]
I just want to clarify something, and I'm sure some reading the thread for the first time might be confused on this point as well.
Detachable Carry Handles (6/3) have double click references. This includes the intitial adjustment of the elevation wheel on the elevation drum, right? Thus: "Once you have loosened the index screw, use one hand to hold the allen wrench in place on the screw and with your other hand turn the elevation knob (the bottom part of the elevation drum) "As I mentioned earlier, this sighting scheme is really just taking the Improved Battlesight Zero one step further. Starting with the elevation drum at the 8/3 setting, turn the elevation drum counter-clockwise "Once you have zeroed the rifle with this method, you will have your 100 yard zero setting and the other settings of the elevation drum remain intact (within the limits of the coarse adjustments of the detachable A2 sights). To use the Improved Battlesight Zero, simply set the elevation drum to So is the above correct? Adjust the elevation wheel by 8 clicks clockwise. 100 POA=POI 6/3, -6 50/200/IBZ POA=POI 6/3. -4 300 Mil = 6/3 ?????? |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2007 1:41:44 AM EDT
[#30]
So if you have a 16 inch barrel with rifle length site radius (dissapator style), would the IBZ or revised IBZ still be valid? Would the markings on the rear site elevation wheel still be valid?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 10/29/2007 3:20:13 PM EDT
[#31]
I tried to download the 100 yd. Target but get errors. Anyone else have the same problems?
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Posted: 10/31/2007 4:18:02 PM EDT
[#32]
FWIW, I couldn't download that target either.
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Posted: 10/31/2007 5:17:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#33]
I just downloaded and printed the target with no issues whatsoever, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
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Posted: 10/31/2007 5:24:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Tag for later
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2007 11:11:06 AM EDT
[#35]
So not only do you need to adjust the sites for targets between 25, 50 and 100 yards (but not until after fixing the sites in this way, which appears impossible on my standard RCH, YAY!), the small and large aperatures have different points of impact as well? They aren't interchangeable and you have to add/subtract clicks in addition to the 25/50/100 targeting changes?
Sheesh, this spread sheet sight system is really starting to tax my confidence in the platform. I'd be willing if I could get it setup, but my wheel won't turn when the screw is loosened, so oh well. I guess the Garand will be my PD weapon now, and the AR will be restricted to in-house only.  On another note, what range does the 100 yard zero also zero at downrange? We've got 25/300 and 50/200, so... 100/400? 100/550? 100/800? |
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Posted: 11/4/2007 11:46:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Well for serious social purposes leaving the wheel on the 50/200 setting IS the standard IBZ, the RIBZ just adds more precise (more than minute of COM) adjustments for range use. I don't know the break downs........... |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2007 12:57:15 PM EDT
[#37]
All right, so as I see it for me and my 6/3 sight, this is how it breaks down (after zeroing at 50 w/small aperature as per the OP):
Small aperature: 25: 6/3 50: -4 100: -6 200: -4 300: 6/3 400: 4 setting (+6 if you aren't looking) 500: 5 setting (+8 if you aren't looking) 600: 6 setting (+ 11 if you aren't looking) Large aperature: 25: +3 50: -1 100: -3 200: -1 300: +3 400: 4 setting +3 (+9 if you aren't looking) 500: 5 setting +3 (+11 if you aren't looking) 600: 6 setting +3 (+14 if you aren't looking) Is this accurate? Do the longer ranges need progressively more then +3? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/4/2007 1:28:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JeremyinTX]
[#38]
What would be the best setting for the elevation wheel if you want a 50 yd zero and don't want to mess with adjustment/calibration.
I was trying the santose method of zeroing, without using the elevation wheel. I'm just trying to figure out an easy all around medium range zero. When I zeroed for 50, my elevation wheel was left at the "z" mark past the 6/3, like you do on a 25m zero. I will not be shooting past 225 or so yards. After zeroing it at 50 I had no trouble hitting targets at 200, and it seemed on. At roughly 30 yds it seemed a little low, which is correct from what I understand. |
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Posted: 11/16/2007 2:31:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: redduck21502]
[#39]
I have a detachable carry handle and was going to set it to -6 clicks but the last click didn't seem like a full click. I decided to go -7 to make sure the last click was a full click. That shouldn't cause any issues should it? I didn't see a need to double the -4 for the standard A2 and go with -8.
This is thread is a good bit more clear compared to other instructions. A sticky would be nice. |
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Posted: 11/17/2007 1:31:31 PM EDT
[#40]
I went with the -7 instead of the -8, since the last click on the -4/A2 was for a buffer - no need for a two click buffer, so in essence simply double the 3 clicks and add a buffer. This is what you did; I did this as well and it works fine. |
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Posted: 11/17/2007 1:32:42 PM EDT
[#41]
I think this is right. What would a 150 be? -3? -5? |
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Posted: 11/17/2007 2:49:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Sweet! Thanks for the confirmation. Now i just need to sight it in and make sure I don't need the taller FSP from Bushmaster. |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:36:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Molon,
Great photography and graphics. Thanks.!! |
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Posted: 12/9/2007 6:48:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#44]
Originally Posted By CCW:
Molon, Great photography and graphics. Thanks.!! De nada. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2007 8:57:50 PM EDT
[#45]
With an A2 upper is it likely that I will need the Bushmaster longer front sight?
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Posted: 12/9/2007 9:10:01 PM EDT
[#46]
It just depends on your particular barrel and the ammunition you are using. I use one with my Colt 20" government profile A2 barrel. With my HBARs it doesn't seem to be needed. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2007 10:14:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Would it be needed for aesthetic resons or functional ones? From what I read it sounded like the top of the base just wasn't flush with the hole it comes out of. Is this correct? Or is there an issue I am missing? |
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Posted: 12/9/2007 10:47:06 PM EDT
[#48]
You're correct but you're missing something. As the flange of the sight post starts to rise out of the well the sight post develops a lot of play; not a good thing for accurate shooting.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2007 10:56:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Does the IBZ result in this post-height issue normally, or just the IIBZ? The IBZ looks accurate enough for my needs, on a 25yard range would I effect it by: Modify wheel to move 2 clicks past 3/8 Set wheel back to 3/8 after verifying movement to 3/8-2 Set wheel to 3/8 and 2 clicks closer the 4 (I know this works with the IIBZ, but will it be the same with IBZ?) Modify front sight adjustment until dead on at 25 yards Move wheel back to 3/8 for 300yard shots, nothing else needed Move wheel back to 3/8 minus 2 clicks for 50-250 yard shots, nothing else needed Also, on my ballistic calculator, a 50 yard zero with M193 with 3250fps MV and .267 BC results in a 240-250 yard zero, not a 200 yard zero. Whats up? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/10/2007 5:01:00 PM EDT
[#50]
TTT, Molon?
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