EOTech VS Aimpoint Discussion

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - EOTech VS Aimpoint Discussion (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/4/2006 11:54:24 AM EDT

Well, I am going to save up and get either one of these scopes. I can't access the archive, so its hard for me to reasearch/ It seems most people here buy one or the other. I really need to save up though. I wanted to know if these already come with risers for an A3 flattop upper. And how much and the cheapest place to buy them at. I am also open to suggestions on other comparable optics.

BTW. I intend to use this for hunting, so 100-300 yards. Does EOTech have any magnification? Just for close combat?

Posted: 4/4/2006 12:13:01 PM EDT

[#1]

Did you ever consider a variable 1X4 scope. I have owned the Aimpoint/magnifier combo and the Eotech and it was not at all what I thought it would be. There is no bullet drop like the ACOG and no BDC Turrets. There are several low power variable scopes out there like the Leupold CQT, Leupold 1.5X5. IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision, and the ultimate scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Check out the pro's and cons below. For your intended purpose you will be better off with a Low Power 1X4 Variable scope or even an ACOG. It all depends on the distances you are going to shoot at.

Aimpoints/EOTechs:
A: Uses: (0-100 Yards)
1. One of the best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight. Limited only by 1X magnification.
3. Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.).

C: Con’s:
1. Uses batteries. (Although some have a battery life of 50,000 hrs.).
2. Can fail.

ACOG's
A: Uses: (50-300 Yards)
1. Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used.
2. Best all purpose Military scope.
3. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity.
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.).

C: Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice.
2. Can fail.
3. Expensive.
4. Short eye relief.

Low-Power Variable Scopes:
A: Uses: (0-300 Yards)
1. Good CQB scope.
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
3. Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black.

C: Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.).
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive.

Posted: 4/4/2006 3:03:56 PM EDT

[#2]

You don't need to access the archives to SEARCH

Or, instead of posting a new thread in the Optics, Mounts and Sights forum, just look at any of the 5 on the first page regarding Aimpoints and Eotechs.

Sorry to be a dick your first month here but your excuses are pretty poor!

If you will be doing real hunting up to 300 yards then yes, a low powered variable scope might be enough. A 10x scope would be nice for being able to make sure you hit vitals, right?

Posted: 4/4/2006 3:12:01 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Did you ever consider a variable 1X4 scope. I have owned the Aimpoint/magnifier combo and the Eotech and it was not at all what I thought it would be. There is no bullet drop like the ACOG and no BDC Turrets. There are several low power variable scopes out there like the Leupold CQT, Leupold 1.5X5. IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision, and the ultimate scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Check out the pro's and cons below. For your intended purpose you will be better off with a Low Power 1X4 Variable scope or even an ACOG. It all depends on the distances you are going to shoot at.

Aimpoints/EOTechs:
A: Uses: (0-100 Yards) Eotechs are used out to and past 300 yards
1. One of the best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight. Limited only by 1X magnification.
3. Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.).

C: Con’s:
1. Uses batteries. (Although some have a battery life of 50,000 hrs.).
2. Can fail.

ACOG's
A: Uses: (50-300 Yards) People are shooting over double that distance with those!
1. Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. CQB Huh??
2. Best all purpose Military scope. No, not really.
3. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity.
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). Parallax? It's a scope...

C: Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice. Not all have BAC reticles. It doesn't require practice if you are half smart
2. Can fail. Anything can fail. Don't bother
3. Expensive.
4. Short eye relief. Only some have short eye relief and those are the non-BAC models.

Low-Power Variable Scopes:
A: Uses: (0-300 Yards)
1. Good CQB scope. Scopes with crosshairs don't make good CQB Optics. Something with a bright red reticle makes a good CQB optic
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
3. Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier. ACOGS use very HIGH quality optical glass.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black. BINGO- definitely not a CQB optic if no illuminated reticle.

C: Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.). how is this scope different than an ACOG? Why do you say an ACOG is parallax free when you are talking about BAC but when you are talking about regular crosshairs in a 1x-4x you think parallax becomes an issue?
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive. Not much more than an ACOG can!
4. Can fail. What adjustable zoom scope do you know of that is stronger than an ACOG?

When listing "PROs" and "CONs" you should make them relative to the items you are discussing. Some of your "CONs" for an ACOG are BIG CONs for the 1x-4x scope- like the "can fail" part. I think you will be hard pressed to show an example of an adjustable zoom scope that is as indestructible as an ACOG.

You are just pulling gobs of information out of your a$$. Everything else that comes close to being true is just taken off the top of your head from something you read in the last day.

Posted: 4/5/2006 4:00:57 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Did you ever consider a variable 1X4 scope. I have owned the Aimpoint/magnifier combo and the Eotech and it was not at all what I thought it would be. There is no bullet drop like the ACOG and no BDC Turrets. There are several low power variable scopes out there like the Leupold CQT, Leupold 1.5X5. IOR 1.1X4, Horus Vision, and the ultimate scope, the Schmidt and Bender Short Dot. Check out the pro's and cons below. For your intended purpose you will be better off with a Low Power 1X4 Variable scope or even an ACOG. It all depends on the distances you are going to shoot at.

Aimpoints/EOTechs:
A: Uses: (0-100 Yards) Eotechs are used out to and past 300 yards (Effectively?)1. One of the best CQB (Close Quarters) sight available due to rapid target acquisition.
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement sight. Limited only by 1X magnification.
3. Excellent for hunting where speed is desired over magnification.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. Unlimited eye relief.
3. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.).

C: Con’s:
1. Uses batteries. (Although some have a battery life of 50,000 hrs.).
2. Can fail.

ACOG's
A: Uses: (50-300 Yards) People are shooting over double that distance with those! (That is real nice, but most .223/5.56 rounds have an effective range of 100-200 yards.)
1. Good CQB scope with enough practice. Best when used in open areas where magnification can be used. CQB Huh??
2. Best all purpose Military scope. No, not really. (Which one do you think is the best all purpose Military scope then? The Aimpoint? I don't think so.)
3. Excellent for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Generally very rugged.
2. No batteries.
3. Fixed magnification for simplicity.
4. Parallax free (Dot does not need to be centered in the scope.). Parallax? It's a scope...

C: Con’s:
1. B.A.C. requires practice. Not all have BAC reticles. It doesn't require practice if you are half smart
2. Can fail. Anything can fail. Don't bother (If this wasn't a true statement, then why do most Police Departments require a Back-up sight on the weapon?)
3. Expensive.
4. Short eye relief. Only some have short eye relief and those are the non-BAC models.
(ACOG 3.5X=2.4 eye relief, ACOG 4X BAC Model=1.5 eye relief, ACOG 4X TA01=1.5 eye relief, ACOG 5.5X=2.2 eye relief. If those aren't short, then I don't know what is.)
Low-Power Variable Scopes:
A: Uses: (0-300 Yards)
1. Good CQB scope. Scopes with crosshairs don't make good CQB Optics. Something with a bright red reticle makes a good CQB optic (I said GOOD, not Great or the Best. Something with a bright red reticle makes for an EXCELLENT CQB scope.)
2. Good all purpose Military/Law Enforcement scope.
3. Good for hunting where speed and magnification is desired.

B: Pro’s:
1. Variable magnification offers options. (1-4X magnification.).
2. Generally very rugged.
3. Optical glass makes identification easier. ACOGS use very HIGH quality optical glass.
4. Batteries not an issue since reticle is black. BINGO- definitely not a CQB optic if no illuminated reticle. (What? All I meant was that you don't need batteries for these scopes. You don't think the Leupold CQT is a good CQB scope? That is an example of a Low Poer Variable scope)

C: Con’s:
1. Not parallax free (Dot needs to be centered in the scope.). how is this scope different than an ACOG? Why do you say an ACOG is parallax free when you are talking about BAC but when you are talking about regular crosshairs in a 1x-4x you think parallax becomes an issue?
2. Eye relief is critical.
3. Can be very expensive. Not much more than an ACOG can! (A Schmidt and Bender Short Dot scope is very expensive)
4. Can fail. What adjustable zoom scope do you know of that is stronger than an ACOG?
(None. That is why I wrote that it can fail. And that is why the ACOG is an excellent Military Optic. They are built like tanks.)

When listing "PROs" and "CONs" you should make them relative to the items you are discussing. Some of your "CONs" for an ACOG are BIG CONs for the 1x-4x scope- like the "can fail" part. I think you will be hard pressed to show an example of an adjustable zoom scope that is as indestructible as an ACOG.

You are just pulling gobs of information out of your a$$. Everything else that comes close to being true is just taken off the top of your head from something you read in the last day.

Actually I'm the one that posted that before in several posts and it is from a class that I taught at work. I can send you the Power Point Presentation if you'd like. So the only place I am pulling this shit from is from my head which I obtained from experience and research. I am not saying I am an expert but I know enough. And nothing is indestructible, not even the ACOG's or EOTech's. And Pro's and Con's were just general statements about each category of scopes. They were not specific. Like I said, THEY WERE JUST GENERAL STATEMENTS ABOUT EACH CATEGORY OF SCOPES, NOT ABOUT EACH SPECIFIC ONE. And the reason I wrote that these Optices can fail, is becasue it is a fact. That is why most people use Back-up Sights. And when I did my presentation at work, I also compared the scopes against Iron Sights, which are more durable. The one thing you were correct was the ACOG being Parallax free, which was a mistake on my part when I copied and pasted some of the stuff from my presentation onto the post here. I already have my scope and I was just trying to help someone out by giving them a direction, which is the way I was taught. I gave him an idea and I let them decide what is best for them. I could have easily said, get an IOR 2X12-32 scope because blah, blah blah. I didn't. Just like when people ask which one is better, Aimpoint or EOTech? They are both great scopes. It is just a matter of preference.

Posted: 4/5/2006 8:25:46 PM EDT

[#5]

you are so full of shit.

A lot of people around here shoot out to 300 yards with their Eotechs. I'm sorry that I can't, but plenty of people do. The best way to zero your Eotech is at a 50/200 yard zero.

5.56 rounds are effective past 200 yards. You don't get out much, do you? People can shoot matches with Irons and hit man size targets at 600+. And yes, the round will do damage to you at that distance.

I criticized your second "Con" of ACOGs as being "can fail" by putting "anything can fail." You don't seem to get what I was saying because you responded with "If this wasn't true..." No fucking shit! That was my point- any optic can fail and that's what BUISs are for. We are talking about optics here and you are comparing ACOGs to Aimpoints/Eotechs and to low powered adjustable scopes. The ACOG is the most indestructible of the bunch in most cases which also gets to my main point- be relative with your comparisons. Be concise, be consistent. You were all over the place and were of very little use.

My criticisms of what you had to say are much more informative than your generic bullshit you gave this guy. Read through the damn optics threads...

You should spend more time reading real world examples like those you find here than just looking for data to support your little projects. Do you really do presentations on rifle optics for work? Are you sure it's not for school or something? Are you even allowed to talk about "assault rifle" related topics in public in Jersey?

Posted: 4/5/2006 8:30:38 PM EDT

[#6]

Look at this thread for a quick idea---> HERE

HK940 sums it up pretty well when he mentions using an Aimpoint to shoot inside a 6" ring at 200 yards. That will take out someone's melon.

Or, in another thread Forest says:

If he uses a 75yard zero that will give him a trajectory aht is +/-2.5" from 25y to about 280y. Lots of hold over up close if he needs to make a head shot.

When zeroing on a 25M range his group should be centered 2 1/4" to 2 3/8" below the point of aim.

Yes there will be some shifting with the switch to M855, but it won't be really noticable till a couple of hundred meters out. Even then the rounds will hit a man-sized target with a center mass hold.

when someone asks about zeroing his buddy's Eotech on a carry handle.

Posted: 4/5/2006 8:39:13 PM EDT

[#7]

HERE is a thread that will answer the original question, or begin to.

note how one guy says that for distances up to 500m, he'll stick with his irons like the corps trained him. I wonder what he's doing with an ineffective bullet at 500m, twice as far as an eotech can be useful, right pauolosantos?

Posted: 4/5/2006 8:40:37 PM EDT

[#8]

josephR speaks the truth
its nothing for an aimpoint or eotech at 300 yards, plenty of folks around here where i live do it

when my brother did his military qualifications they had to hit a man sized target at 300 meters with irons

Posted: 4/5/2006 11:08:08 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
you are so full of shit.

A lot of people around here shoot out to 300 yards with their Eotechs. I'm sorry that I can't, but plenty of people do. The best way to zero your Eotech is at a 50/200 yard zero.

5.56 rounds are effective past 200 yards. You don't get out much, do you? People can shoot matches with Irons and hit man size targets at 600+. And yes, the round will do damage to you at that distance.

I criticized your second "Con" of ACOGs as being "can fail" by putting "anything can fail." You don't seem to get what I was saying because you responded with "If this wasn't true..." No fucking shit! That was my point- any optic can fail and that's what BUISs are for. We are talking about optics here and you are comparing ACOGs to Aimpoints/Eotechs and to low powered adjustable scopes. The ACOG is the most indestructible of the bunch in most cases which also gets to my main point- be relative with your comparisons. Be concise, be consistent. You were all over the place and were of very little use.

My criticisms of what you had to say are much more informative than your generic bullshit you gave this guy. Read through the damn optics threads...

You should spend more time reading real world examples like those you find here than just looking for data to support your little projects. Do you really do presentations on rifle optics for work? Are you sure it's not for school or something? Are you even allowed to talk about "assault rifle" related topics in public in Jersey?

When I say effective out to 200 yards, I mean for killing people, not target shit. With a 24" barrel and a heavy bullet, you can shoot all the way out to 1000 yards with an AR. I am talking about fragmentation range. And no, I'm not in school, I'm a fucking cop. Read the Bio.

Posted: 4/5/2006 11:13:20 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
josephR speaks the truth
its nothing for an aimpoint or eotech at 300 yards, plenty of folks around here where i live do it

when my brother did his military qualifications they had to hit a man sized target at 300 meters with irons

I never said that you couldn't shoot out to 300 yards with an Aimpoint/Eotech. I said that an Aimpoint/Eotech is most effective from 0-100 yards. That is all due to Magnification. I had an Aimpoint and an Eotech. Great scopes for CQB-Short distances. But past 100 yards, there are better optics because they have magnification. I was also in the Military and I shot the same range when I qualified. The Aimpoint covers up the whole target out at 300 yards. It isn't as easy as people make it seem. It takes practice.

And my whole point for posting the Pro's and Cons was to give the guy an idea and a direction and help him out. Some people just tell someone to get an Aimpoint becasue that is what everyone else has and it is not what the guy wants or needs. When I was purchasing my scope, someone helped me break it down just like I did and I realized that I needed a variable scope instead of an Aipoint or an ACOG.

Posted: 4/6/2006 12:06:43 AM EDT

[#11]

To JosephR: How many times have you read or heard someone say. "I have an ACOG and I really like it, but for CQB it is not that great. Should I get an EOTech or Aimpoint or put a Doctor Sight on the ACOG?" Wouldn't it make sense just o get a variable 1X4 scope. Or the guys that have an Aimpoint or EOTech and want more magnification. The best bet is to get the magnifier.

To sum it all up. If I was still in the Military, my optic of choice would be an ACOG. For clearing buildings, I would choose and Aimpoint or EOTech, or Trijicon Reflex. For an all-purpose or SPR rifle, I would choose a Variable scope. And my ammo of choice for all three would be the Hornady 5.56 75 Grain TAP. That is just my opinion.

To Cornholio1: I didn't mean to confuse you or mislead you in any way when I posted the pro's and con's. I was just trying to help you out.

Posted: 4/6/2006 6:06:31 AM EDT

[#12]

I have a ML2 aimpoint and a 551 eotech

both are great!

If I could only have 1?

Aimpoint would be the one I would pick!

Posted: 4/6/2006 2:10:36 PM EDT

[#13]

To JosephR: I don't know what you have against me, but that is your problem. This is the second time you have personally attacked me and I don't appreciate it. I gave my honest opinion and if you disagree with it, all you have to do is give your opinion and move on. Saying that I am full of shit and making it sound like I am in college and doing some kind of project is uncalled for. I don't know you and you don't know me. We are all here to help each other out with questions. And since you want to call me out like you did, here is where I work.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended or upset. This is between me and JosephR, which was started in a previous post about the ARMS SIR System. He obviously has a problem with me and there is nothing I can do about it.

And I respect everyone's opinions about the range of an EOTech and Aimpoints. IMHO they are best used from 0-100 yards. You can definitely use them for further distances, but If I were to shoot consistantly out further then I would get something else.

Posted: 4/6/2006 2:26:34 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
To JosephR: I don't know what you have against me, but that is your problem. This is the second time you have personally attacked me and I don't appreciate it. I gave my honest opinion and if you disagree with it, all you have to do is give your opinion and move on. Saying that I am full of shit and making it sound like I am in college and doing some kind of project is uncalled for. I don't know you and you don't know me. We are all here to help each other out with questions. And since you want to call me out like you did, here is where I work.

If you have any questions feel free to contact me at work. Here is my work info:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.
You can also ask to speak with my Sergeant or LT and they will gladly talk to you.

Edited to remove personal information.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended or upset. This is between me and JosephR, which was started in a previous post about the ARMS SIR System. He obviously has a problem with me and there is nothing I can do about it.

And I respect everyone's opinions about the range of an EOTech and Aimpoints. IMHO they are best used from 0-100 yards. You can definitely use them for further distances, but If I were to shoot consistantly out further then I would get something else.

Don't sweat it, there is an asshole in every forum on the net, you just found your own personal one. I suspect there is some penis envy going on there! JMHO!

Posted: 4/6/2006 2:48:35 PM EDT

[#15]

Thanks for posting paulosantos--I like hearing all points of view

Posted: 4/6/2006 3:20:34 PM EDT

[#16]

Thank you guys for the kind words. If you guys ever need anything let me know.

Posted: 4/6/2006 3:28:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
To JosephR: I don't know what you have against me, but that is your problem. This is the second time you have personally attacked me and I don't appreciate it. I gave my honest opinion and if you disagree with it, all you have to do is give your opinion and move on. Saying that I am full of shit and making it sound like I am in college and doing some kind of project is uncalled for. I don't know you and you don't know me. We are all here to help each other out with questions. And since you want to call me out like you did, here is where I work.

I apologize to anyone that I have offended or upset. This is between me and JosephR, which was started in a previous post about the ARMS SIR System. He obviously has a problem with me and there is nothing I can do about it.

And I respect everyone's opinions about the range of an EOTech and Aimpoints. IMHO they are best used from 0-100 yards. You can definitely use them for further distances, but If I were to shoot consistantly out further then I would get something else.

Don't sweat it, there is an asshole in every forum on the net, you just found your own personal one. I suspect there is some penis envy going on there! JMHO!

+2
Flame me all you want too, JosephR but you are out of line and being a prick. The guy had some useful info and REALLY tried to be objective in his response and "respectful" in his retorts to your blind-sided attacks. "Objectivity" and "respectful debating" are good qualities that you might want to look into someday. Thanks for the info, Santos. I'm glad to hear that some other LEO's are "gun guys" too.

Posted: 4/6/2006 5:54:59 PM EDT

[#18]

My vote goes with Santos....I often wonder how many members of this site are low rent Rambos living in their 600 sf condo, hoping for a promotion at the 7-11, and how many have their ducks in a row, and been there and done that, and got the tee shirt to prove it. I never post unless I have an opinion based on direct experience, and never adversely comment on someone unless they fall into the raving nutcase column, or nut case column, or raving column. It might have been on this site that of late a reply to whatever post, I forget, appeared that read, "Are you calling me a liar?", which amazed me. What is the author of that statement about to do, beat you up during recess? My life has taught me that the most thin skinned and offensive, or the ones that ridicule the most, have the least to offer, and build themselves up by only tearing others down.

Posted: 4/6/2006 6:13:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
My vote goes with Santos....I often wonder how many members of this site are low rent Rambos living in their 600 sf condo, hoping for a promotion at the 7-11, and how many have their ducks in a row, and been there and done that, and got the tee shirt to prove it. I never post unless I have an opinion based on direct experience, and never adversely comment on someone unless they fall into the raving nutcase column, or nut case column, or raving column. It might have been on this site that of late a reply to whatever post, I forget, appeared that read, "Are you calling me a liar?", which amazed me. What is the author of that statement about to do, beat you up during recess? My life has taught me that the most thin skinned and offensive, or the ones that ridicule the most, have the least to offer, and build themselves up by only tearing others down.

I appreciate the support Mr FoxtrotTango.

Posted: 4/6/2006 8:17:34 PM EDT

[#20]

CORNHOLIO1
I have used eotech and aimpoint 2moa for hunting. Most of my use is for close range (under 100 yards) on moving "targets". I found the single dot of the aimpoint to be easier to make hits go were I want them, the circle on the eotech was destracting and made me shoot sloppy.
Longer shots, when trying to make the perfect neck shot, were harder without magnification and not certain.
I have tried accupoint 1.25x4, leupold cqt 1x3, and a leupold 3x9. IMO, all 3 sucked at close range and were heavy, but these may be ok for you if you're shooting 100-300 yards, in which the 3x9 would be my pick out of these just for the 9x.
I am currently using a trijicon ta50, and I haven't used it enough yet to know if I like it or not
I don't know what you hunt or how you hunt, but perfect shots with a red dot in a hunting situation at 300 yards is not really a sure thing, hell not even at 150yds for me unless I have all day. I'm sure if you're target shooting it is ok. And I bet it's ok for combat putting a lot of rounds out there until the bad guy goes down. But.......that is not exactly hunting.

Posted: 4/6/2006 8:44:56 PM EDT

[#21]

Paulo,

Please edit out your personal info. I'm a brother cop, and I am telling you right now that there is NOTHING on the internet worth having your personal info available. You don't need that sort of aggravation.

I would also ask that those people who have quoted Paulo please edit their quotes.

JosephR- His opinions are valid, as they are his opinions.

Posted: 4/7/2006 12:22:26 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Paulo,

Please edit out your personal info. I'm a brother cop, and I am telling you right now that there is NOTHING on the internet worth having your personal info available. You don't need that sort of aggravation.

I would also ask that those people who have quoted Paulo please edit their quotes.

JosephR- His opinions are valid, as they are his opinions.

Thanks brother. I'll take your advice.

Posted: 4/7/2006 5:08:00 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Paulo,

Please edit out your personal info. I'm a brother cop, and I am telling you right now that there is NOTHING on the internet worth having your personal info available. You don't need that sort of aggravation.

I would also ask that those people who have quoted Paulo please edit their quotes.

JosephR- His opinions are valid, as they are his opinions.

I agree, I was a little shocked that you put that out there. Ballsy move, but it can come back to haunt you. I personally don't think you had to acknowledge the idiot anyway, I think this forum is one of the best for information on many levels. But as you know there is always the 10%. There are no stupid questions. People that stoop to personal attacks have some kind of inferiority complex.
Hey, stay safe! I edited my earlier post, to remove the personal info.

ReconJack

Conduct Code 6.) Repeatedly attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. You have a right to disagree, but please do so in a respectful manner.

Where are the Moderators???? They need to go through this forum and read this guys Posts!!!! He is constantly attacking people personaly, with profane language that does no good except show his ignorance. Someone needs to call him on his conduct!

Posted: 4/7/2006 5:40:05 AM EDT

[#24]

That is what bothered me. This is the second time he attacked me and he constantly does it to others.

Posted: 4/7/2006 5:51:33 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
That is what bothered me. This is the second time he attacked me and he constantly does it to others and when I contact the moderators, they don't do anything about it.

Well I posted the same thing on another topic. Someone needs to stand up to the guy, there is no call for that kind of personal attack. This is suppose to be a civilized forum. I will call him on it everytime I see it. I don't have time to follow him all day long, and that should be the job of the moderators. I think a warning would do it. I whole heartedly believe in spirited debate, and freedom of speech, but stooping to name calling just because you don't agree with someone is wrong, and takes something away from the discussion.

Hopefully the moderators will take notice!

ReconJack

Posted: 4/7/2006 8:52:26 AM EDT

[#26]

Hey ReconJack- keep this crap out of other threads, would you? Just IM the mods of this forum to complain. Quit running into other threads and posting the same stuff you've posted here, ok? Carrying crap from one thread to another is more serious in their minds than just one guy being an asshole in a thread.

Paulo- I have nothing against you. I just wanted to point out that a lot of the things you listed seemed out of place in the different categories. I should have given up when you stated it was your opinion. You were basically the only one to have posted here and I didn't want the starter of the thread to take everything as gospel.

I don't remember the ARMS or SIR thread. If you want to carry a grudge over from another thread, that's your perogative. Just believe me when I say, I have nothing against you and didn't mean to insult your or try to infer you were a child doing a show and tell in school. I do now remember you were at one time awhile back gathering information for that pro and con list.

Sorry if I offended you.

For the others, Sorry if I made you feel the need to defend someone or feel that I was that big of an asshole or menace that you had to take time to respond to me.

I just came back to this trainwreck and never saw any personal info. Don't worry as I wouldn't have used it for anything anyway.

Don't get so riled up over me. I just explained why I come off as an ass in another thread and hope everyone understands. I get stubborn and pushy when it comes to small details. I'm pretty anal I guess and apologize if that causes problems here...

Joe

Posted: 4/7/2006 9:55:25 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Hey ReconJack- keep this crap out of other threads, would you? Just IM the mods of this forum to complain. Quit running into other threads and posting the same stuff you've posted here, ok? Carrying crap from one thread to another is more serious in their minds than just one guy being an asshole in a thread.

Paulo- I have nothing against you. I just wanted to point out that a lot of the things you listed seemed out of place in the different categories. I should have given up when you stated it was your opinion. You were basically the only one to have posted here and I didn't want the starter of the thread to take everything as gospel.

I don't remember the ARMS or SIR thread. If you want to carry a grudge over from another thread, that's your perogative. Just believe me when I say, I have nothing against you and didn't mean to insult your or try to infer you were a child doing a show and tell in school. I do now remember you were at one time awhile back gathering information for that pro and con list.

Sorry if I offended you.

For the others, Sorry if I made you feel the need to defend someone or feel that I was that big of an asshole or menace that you had to take time to respond to me.

I just came back to this trainwreck and never saw any personal info. Don't worry as I wouldn't have used it for anything anyway.

Don't get so riled up over me. I just explained why I come off as an ass in another thread and hope everyone understands. I get stubborn and pushy when it comes to small details. I'm pretty anal I guess and apologize if that causes problems here...

Joe

Hey, nothing personal against you either, just trying to get your attention...
As far as I am concerned it is over, and I apoligize to, just want to get along.

Thanks,
ReconJack

Posted: 4/7/2006 10:37:28 AM EDT

[#28]

What annoyed me was finding your comments in another thread...

Posted: 4/7/2006 10:49:28 AM EDT

[#29]

Take this Brokeback Arfcom crap somewhere else, like the General Discussion forum.

Posted: 4/7/2006 11:58:22 AM EDT

[#30]

ooh, they have a heated Brokeback discussion going on over there?

Posted: 4/7/2006 12:02:59 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
ooh, they have a heated Brokeback discussion going on over there?

not yet, but they will when they hear about this warm-fuzzy apologetic whinefest, let's get back on topic.

Posted: 4/7/2006 1:42:09 PM EDT

[#32]

I gotta try to play nicey-nice after I'm mean. If not, I'll get banned, right?

Posted: 4/7/2006 1:43:40 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I gotta try to play nicey-nice after I'm mean. If not, I'll get banned, right?

lol....good point. We'd better hug too, just to be safe.

Posted: 4/7/2006 3:40:33 PM EDT

[#34]

Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

Posted: 4/7/2006 4:05:50 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

LOL. Let it out brother. Don't keep it bottled up. As my wife tells her clients. "Now, how does that make you feel?" You are funny.

Posted: 4/7/2006 7:56:43 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

You really need help. What's your deal?

The fact that I know I act crazy shows that I'm not indeed crazy. Crazy people don't know they are crazy. I have a feeling you would say you are not.

Are you not getting your way? Did you want me to continue arguing?

WAH!

Posted: 4/8/2006 6:14:55 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

You should have taken the blue pill

Posted: 4/8/2006 7:01:05 AM EDT

[#38]

I been gone from AR15.com and this is what I come back for?

wow......

Paulo,

Joesph is right, I have shot with my EOTech out to 300m and the hit probability are high on torso sized targets. using a heavier weight bullet like the 77gr. SMK you can effect take out a hostile out too that distance(that is with a 14.5 inch M4, but a HB match gun) and yes effectively if you are familiar with your weapon and your POI out to said distance. and with a ACOG, I have documentation of shots taken in the sand box effectively removing a threat out to 500m. yes some of those are extreme cases and the shooter is a fine rifleman, and for a civilian shooter or even a general patrol LEO this kind of distance and practice might not come as eaily as some of the mil-operators.

I think the best all purpose mil-scope is probably the ACOG with BAC, but with S&B short Dot and teh new Elcan in the horizon.. the field is wide open for now.

Back up iron sight for a LEO rifle is not as necessary, with the distance most of the shooting are done at, transition is usually the more proper method. using a BUIS with a red dot is a great idea, but having a BUIS with a ACOG, you would need to remove the scope before you can use the iron. I have never seen a ACOG fail, a close friend sold his SN4 and bought a Ta55 for his SPR, he is scoring hits oversea and never had a problem, he couldn't say the same thing for his US Optic SN4.

I think Leupold CQ/T is a poor scope and a poor design.

Posted: 4/8/2006 7:32:05 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I been gone from AR15.com and this is what I come back for?

wow......

Paulo,

Joesph is right, I have shot with my EOTech out to 300m and the hit probability are high on torso sized targets. using a heavier weight bullet like the 77gr. SMK you can effect take out a hostile out too that distance(that is with a 14.5 inch M4, but a HB match gun) and yes effectively if you are familiar with your weapon and your POI out to said distance. and with a ACOG, I have documentation of shots taken in the sand box effectively removing a threat out to 500m. yes some of those are extreme cases and the shooter is a fine rifleman, and for a civilian shooter or even a general patrol LEO this kind of distance and practice might not come as eaily as some of the mil-operators.

I think the best all purpose mil-scope is probably the ACOG with BAC, but with S&B short Dot and teh new Elcan in the horizon.. the field is wide open for now.

Back up iron sight for a LEO rifle is not as necessary, with the distance most of the shooting are done at, transition is usually the more proper method. using a BUIS with a red dot is a great idea, but having a BUIS with a ACOG, you would need to remove the scope before you can use the iron. I have never seen a ACOG fail, a close friend sold his SN4 and bought a Ta55 for his SPR, he is scoring hits oversea and never had a problem, he couldn't say the same thing for his US Optic SN4.

I think Leupold CQ/T is a poor scope and a poor design.

I respect your opinion. I personally would not use a red Dot sight for anything much further than 100 yards because I want precision. for close in the Red Dots rule. I agree that you can make a kill out to 500 + yards with a 5.56, but they are not reliable/consistant out that far. IMNO, for 300+ yards I would use a .308. Back-up are indeed necessary for LEO if your department requires that you have them, which most departments do. I had to reconfigure my AR because I didn't know I needed Back-up sights. My mistake for not asking first. And also remember that being in the Military is totally different that in LE. In the Military when you are at war, the rules are different. If you miss a target, you shot again until the target stops moving. In LE, if you miss, you own that round. If you miss the target and kill an innocent person, you are in deep sh*t. That is why I built my AR based on pure precision. This is my patrol rifle. I had the barrel shortened from 24" to 18". The scope is an IOR 2X12-32. It is still good for 10-300 yards. I shoot the Hornady 5.56 75 Grain TAP. I would prefer the Blackhills MK 262 Mod1, but they are too hard to get. And I was in the Army from 1994-1998 and have been a cop for 5 years, so i do have some experience in both. Just remember war is different from a hostage situation. What works in the military doesn't always work in the LE/civillian world. I would not want to take a variable scope to war, but for LE they are ideal.

Posted: 4/8/2006 10:26:45 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

I'll see what I can do for you.

Posted: 4/8/2006 10:43:10 AM EDT

[#41]

New-Arguy is working on this...

Posted: 4/8/2006 12:02:08 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

Customer service desk...we're open 24/7. Enjoy your vacation.

Posted: 4/8/2006 12:16:17 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

Customer service desk...we're open 24/7. Enjoy your vacation.

Posted: 4/9/2006 3:08:53 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Customer service desk...we're open 24/7. Enjoy your vacation.

Hehehehehe....

Is there an adjustment in "Vacation time" between Canadian and US measurement systems?

Posted: 4/9/2006 4:40:22 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuck all you assholes!

How is that? I feel like a real man now!!!

You fucking idiots, yeah I could get to like this. You bunch of dickhead pricks!
Armchair warrior wannabees.
Bunch of humpback shitheads, ooohhhhh that felt good! Now I know I fit in!!!
I wanna be like Hokie, or is it hoagie??? Poagie????

Yep, I know it, I hate all you shitheads!!!!! Your all fucking stupid, no guts, no morals, like me, I am the greatest thing that ever hit the battlefield, I'm a fucking hero!!!!

BAN ME YOU MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ReconJack

Customer service desk...we're open 24/7. Enjoy your vacation.

+87

Posted: 4/9/2006 4:42:54 PM EDT

[#46]

I think the problem here is a lack of pictures.

Posted: 4/9/2006 5:15:03 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I been gone from AR15.com and this is what I come back for?

wow......

Paulo,

Joesph is right, I have shot with my EOTech out to 300m and the hit probability are high on torso sized targets. using a heavier weight bullet like the 77gr. SMK you can effect take out a hostile out too that distance(that is with a 14.5 inch M4, but a HB match gun) and yes effectively if you are familiar with your weapon and your POI out to said distance. and with a ACOG, I have documentation of shots taken in the sand box effectively removing a threat out to 500m. yes some of those are extreme cases and the shooter is a fine rifleman, and for a civilian shooter or even a general patrol LEO this kind of distance and practice might not come as eaily as some of the mil-operators.

I think the best all purpose mil-scope is probably the ACOG with BAC, but with S&B short Dot and teh new Elcan in the horizon.. the field is wide open for now.

Back up iron sight for a LEO rifle is not as necessary, with the distance most of the shooting are done at, transition is usually the more proper method. using a BUIS with a red dot is a great idea, but having a BUIS with a ACOG, you would need to remove the scope before you can use the iron. I have never seen a ACOG fail, a close friend sold his SN4 and bought a Ta55 for his SPR, he is scoring hits oversea and never had a problem, he couldn't say the same thing for his US Optic SN4.

I think Leupold CQ/T is a poor scope and a poor design.

I can hit a 10in steel target everytime with my 11.5 using 62gr and a comp m at 300, and I am pretty bad shot. I am sure with the smaller eotech reticle it would be even easier. I dont understand why everyone claims these 100-150 max ranges for these scopes.

Posted: 4/9/2006 5:42:13 PM EDT

[#48]

YOU ARE WRONG!!!

You aren't a bad shot at all!

Posted: 4/9/2006 5:49:40 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
YOU ARE WRONG!!!

You aren't a bad shot at all!

Marine Corps says I am. Sharpshooter. missed expert by 1.

I am bad at kneeling and sitting. prone at 500 I can hit everytime, and the standing I can hit everytime.

Posted: 4/9/2006 7:56:18 PM EDT

[#50]

I can hit a 10in steel target everytime with my 11.5 using 62gr and a comp m at 300, and I am pretty bad shot. I am sure with the smaller eotech reticle it would be even easier. I dont understand why everyone claims these 100-150 max ranges for these scopes.

Nobody is claiming that the max range for these scopes is 100-150 yards. We are saying that is the furthest we would like to shoot with these scopes. I had and EOTech and an M3 and I shot with them out to 300 yards and I did fine. Once I got my IOR 2X12-32 scope I got rid of the EOTech and M3 because it the best scope for my intended purposes. EOTechs, Aimpoints, and ACOGs are awsome scopes. For my intended purposes, the IOR is better.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - EOTech VS Aimpoint Discussion (Page 1 of 2)

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