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Posted: 3/9/2006 12:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 12:14:50 PM EDT by nobody-really]
I’m trying to help a buddy find the right scope for his AR-10. He wants the rifle to serve two purposes; hunting and home defense. He likes the .308 cartridge and I talked him into an AR-10, 16 inch carbine with the collapsible stock.

I pictured this rifle having a floating handguard (Daniel Defense) added and a Magpul adjustable stock added. And for optics a 3X to 9X scope with a JPoint sight running piggyback.

Now he is ready to buy the scope and I want to ask what is the best choice?
Details are below.

Rifle: Armalite AR-10 carbine flattop, 16 inch barrel, collapsible stock.
Use: Hunting and home defense / tactical
Power: Min: ? , Max: 5X to 10X
Price: $300.00 to $500.00 (could pay more if worth it)
Preference: Illuminated reticle, Correct eye relief for AR, range estimation reticle (SPR, TMR, Mil-Dot)



Here is what I am leaning towards. But I am not a scope expert. And these options cost more then $500.00.


Leupold Mark 4 Mid Range Tactical M2 Scope 30mm Tube 1.5-5x 20mm Illuminated Special Purpose Reticle Matte

Leupold VX-3 Scope 30mm Tube 1.5-5x 20mm Metric Illuminated German #4 Reticle Matte

Leupold Mark 4 Mid Range Tactical M3 Scope 30mm Tube 3-9x 36mm Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle Matte

Leupold Mark 4 Mid Range Tactical M2 Scope 2.5-8x 36mm Illuminated TMR Reticle Matte

Leupold VX-3 Scope 30mm Tube 3.5-10x 50mm Metric Illuminated German #4 Reticle Matte

Leupold Vari-X 3 Long Range Tactical M3 Scope 30mm Tube 3.5-10x 40mm Side Focus Illuminated Duplex Reticle Matte


What should he look at buying?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:37:03 PM EDT
I'm just one guy, but I think a .308 for actual "home" defense is a bad idea in most cases. Loud almost beyond compare, overpenetration through multiple walls, heavier than other options, etc. Now this is more than one guy's opinion here (Steve@ADCO for another), but the .308 loses a LOT of velocity once the barrel drops below 18" as well.

BUT, you didn't ask about that, you asked about an optic. And for that, I will also share my "one guy's" opinion.

I think 3-9 is too much for a 16" AR10. I barely went with 3-9 on my 20" AR10. I prefer lower powered scopes, and usually lean towards the variables, but I think a fixed 4x IOR M1 (around $333.50) with perhaps the JPoint as piggyback would be a very good choice. It has the illumination, the BDC, the range estimation, etc.

Another possible (and a variable) would be the IOR 1.1-4x ($650) which offers range estimation, and if your friend put in the effort, he could learn to match the mil lines to bullet drop.

The Trijicon TR21 ($539) does NOT have range estimation, but it's one of my favorites. A tritium illuminated triangle that does not require batteries and gives your 1.25-4x magnification. The triangle can be used for BDC to some extent since it's size in MOA is known (4moa) and using tip, middle, bottom gives you three reference points for bullet drop.

Something else to consider would be using TWO optics. One for the "HD" scenario with zero magnification (Aimpoint or EOTech) and then a scope for hunting and the like.

Good luck in your quest.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:55:04 PM EDT
+1. A decent 1X4 variable scope will be perfect. IOR, Leupold, and Horus Vision.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:20:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 7:22:23 PM EDT by nobody-really]
Thanks guys. That's great info. I will take a look at the IOR scopes. After talking with him today He was leaning towards the:

Leupold Mark 4 Mid Range Tactical M2 Scope 30mm Tube 1.5-5x 20mm Illuminated Special Purpose Reticle Matte

But one question I have is can that scope be used for CQB (like a red dot) in the 1.5 mode with the reticle turned on?

Then he wouldn't need the JPoint.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:24:37 PM EDT
He wanted one gun to fill most of his needs.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:30:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nobody-really:
Thanks guys. That's great info. I will take a look at the IOR scopes. After talking with him today He was leaning towards the:

Leupold Mark 4 Mid Range Tactical M2 Scope 30mm Tube 1.5-5x 20mm Illuminated Special Purpose Reticle Matte

But one question I have is can that scope be used for CQB (like a red dot) in the 1.5 mode with the reticle turned on?

Then he wouldn't need the JPoint.




If the reticle is bright enough in full sun, yes, the same BAC that ACOGs use can be applied to the Leupold. It will just take a little more practice than no-magnification optics like a JPpoint or Aimpoint.

I just put my Nightforce NXS 2.5-10 on lay-a-way. I played around with it in the store before boxing it back up and the reticle was plenty bright in a building for BAC and did not wash out like I expected it to outside. I can't wait to get that one paid off.
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