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Posted: 2/26/2006 9:15:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 11:41:53 PM EDT by 10-100]
WHY YOU SHOULD BUY FROM DEALERS WHO HAVE HASSLE FREE NO QUESTIONS ASKED RETURN POLICY FOR STORE CREDIT... CAUSE ITS THE INTERNET AND WITH 100 DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OF PARTS SOMETIMES THINGS JUST DONT FIT OTHER THINGS, NO ONES FAULT BUT ITS NICE TO HAVE THE OPTION TO SEND IT BACK AND TRY SOMETHING ELSE WITHOUT A RESTOCKING FEE WHEN YOU CANT TEST FIT PARTS TOGETHER IN PERSON FIRST.

Ordered a ARMS 40L BUIS. When mounted on an RRA upper it was visibly canted to the left as viewed from the rear. This was confirmed by the extreme windage needed to correct.

started to think i had a canted FSB or a barrel index pin problem causing the FSB to be off center. Figured out i could test my ARMS sight by mounting it backwards on the RRA uppers rail. Sure enough it canted to the right when viewed from the rear of the weapon. Sooooo the BUIS itself is not sitting straight up on the rail and it is always leaning to its left. (my knights ris rail must be in spec because it sits straight up on it)

started looking at the design and came to the conclusion that if the uppers rail is undersized and out of spec, the clamping portion of the mount would cause it to sit canted to the left. to confirm this i tightened up the clamp/mount nut all the way without out on a rail and if you look at the parts that grip the rail.... they look like this < and > the one on the left side (the small part that moves) sits higher than the one of the right side (part of the actual sight itself). when these arent even the sight sits crooked. for these to be even the rail has to be in spec.

i know the RRA rail is slightly smaller because the lever on my larue eotech mount when adjusted to fit snug on the RRA rail, wont fully close on on the knights rail and vice versa, when adjusted to fit the knights rail, its looser on the RRA uppers rail.

sooo not sure whos problem it is technically, ARMS for not designing a sight with a mount that will sit uncanted on a slightly out of spec rail or RRA for making a rail that was out of spec on my upper. basically its my problem.

all i do know is to buy your sight from someone who will give you a money back guarantee or return policy with no restocking fee or charge if it doesnt fit right regardless of whos fault it is, while it is their business and they can operate how they see fit i would hate to see someone else get stuck with something that didnt fit regardless of which manufacturers fault it was. i wont name the dealer so dont ask becaause there is no need to name them, they did give exchange for another ARMS 40 sight to try, but it still cants left. Would have been nice if they let me exchange for a whole other brand though.

im sure the sight works great on inspec rails, mine however is slightly smaller and its cants on it. not saying that is ARMS fault because the sight does what it was designed to do (fit inspec rails). its not the dealers fault because i should have read their return policy and im posting so others might do that first too.

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 9:49:28 PM EDT
i have used lots of arms products including the different buis' and have mounte them to rra, bushm, doublestar, cmt, along iwth some others and have never had a problem like what you are describing.


contact arms and tell them the buis is canted and see if they cant help you
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 9:58:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 11:12:47 PM EDT by 10-100]
i did, they wanted me to return it and they would check it on an inspec receiver. my receiver is apparently out of spec so it wouldnt be worth it. I had already sent it back to the dealer i bought it from and they did the same check on a inspec reciever with the same conclusion. my receiver is out of spec. even the second one they sent me was canted on my receiver, so im sure it is the receiver not the sight. basically the design of the sight though causes it to cant on an out of spec reciever.

not a big deal. i can adjust the windage and it shoots fine. just would be nice to have returned it and got another brand that might tolerate an out of spec rail better.

in fact heres a quote from the dealer in response to this.....

"ARMS is very well aware of what happens when there products are mounted on an out of spec upper. They are designed for in spec receivers only. Most people including ***DEALER*** does not consider this as a product deficiency." (no need for me to name the dealer)
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:01:39 PM EDT
a lot of people knock a.r.m.s. but your problem is an out of spec rock river arms upper.

send it back
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:20:36 PM EDT
thanks. yea ive tried to be clear on not knocking ARMS though. it does what it is designed to do. fit inspec receivers. im not even knocking the dealer. i should have read the return policy before buying.

i thought of sending the upper back but the larue eotech mount is adjustable and fits it fine. the BUIS can be adjusted thru windage to compensate for the cant. that and i have trouble when being seperated from my rifle for any length of time.

im not much about looks, more on function, sucks it cants when deployed but hey if i am using my BUIS off the range then something has failed and ive got bigger things to worry about than it being crooked (remember it still shoots POA/POI). if all goes well i should never need the thing, unless im training with irons.

point of this is to tell others to buy their sights from a dealer who will take it back IF it doesnt fit your receiver right regardless of whos part is in spec or not.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:23:59 PM EDT
An out of spec upper is a function issue, not a form issue.

Send the upper back, not the sight.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:32:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 10:39:17 PM EDT by 10-100]
bullets land where i aim. im cool. seriously. im the first guy to take back a cheeseburger cause they forgot the cheese but im not interested in sending my upper back and being alone for a couple weeks to fix a problem that basically amounts to me having to dial in a few extra clicks of windage ONCE in my life. all that matters is the peep is lined up with the front sight post and it is. it hits what i aim it at. yea it would be nice if the body of the BUIS sight was perfectly vertical so that i didnt have to dial in the correction but hey i dont think the bad guy on the other end will notice.

on a side note i really like the flattop RRA upper, it fits my bushmaster lower a lot better than the bushmaster A2 upper i had fit.


like im not trying to be a dick, i appreciate the members on here and the help i have got just from reading others topics, thanks for the help from you guys but to me this problem is a non issue until it affects performance and its not the reason i posted this topic, all i was trying to get across was to buy from someone who has a return policy that you like.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:49:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 10:50:03 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]
i dont understand the title of the thread when it should state "arms makes milspec buis' that cants on my non-milspec rra upper"
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 10:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i dont understand the title of the thread when it should state "arms makes milspec buis' that cants on my non-milspec rra upper"




+1
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:01:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 12:49:25 AM EDT by 10-100]
reread it then i guess. have
i know it isnt the dealers fault.

i know it isnt arms fault.

i know the rra uppers rail is not to spec.



my whole point though is if you buy something, even if it works 100 percent fine and you want to take it back because you just damn well dont like it, then buy it from someone that lets you. i should have read the return policy before buying, my fault. to me is just seems easier to return a BUIS and get one of another brand that might fit an out of spec receiver better instead of parting with my gun for a couple weeks.

example.... i bought a molle chest plate carrier from lightfighter. it fit fine, it was well made and i think it rocked. i liked it for 2 days. i didnt like it on day 3 and decided i would like a vest style carrier better. i told them that and they let me return it. they even picked up the shipping. while im not saying someone should pay for my shipping when i just dont like something im saying they have an awesome return policy, one similar to brick and mortar store versus internet retailer (they probably have this attitude because they have actual retail stores)

the company i bought my BUIS, even if everything was hunky dory should let me send something back and get a different brand of BUIS even if it worked fine and the RRA was in spec. thats all im saying. its their business though so they can do what they want. as a customer though i can shop where i want and im saying im just going to deal with people that take things back for store credit in the future. when i buy from the internet i dont get the option to try something to see if it fits right or works like i want (regardless of whos fault it is even if theres nothing wrong with it), so its nice to have the option to send it back with no problems if i dont like it. make sense? not everything you order online is going to fit fine or be to your liking. whats wrong with me saying to make sure you can return the product if you dont like it for whatever reason and to choose a dealer that allows that.

just want others to read a return policy before buying thats all bro. not trying to assign blame to anyone.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:06:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 12:42:51 AM EDT by 10-100]
title of thread has been changed so that eklikwhoa may sleep better.... hinking.gif


Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i dont understand the title of the thread when it should state "arms makes milspec buis' that cants on my non-milspec rra upper"

Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:10:51 PM EDT
w00t!
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:23:49 PM EDT
so following this logic.... if im changing the headlights on my car tommorrow and brand A bulb just doesnt fit right... for some reason my cars headlight assembly are not to spec and the new bulbs just dont fit well.... ill be sure to return the car to the manufacturer and go without a car for two weeks instead of going back to autozone and exchanging the bulbs for another brand of bulb in the hopes that brand B might be a little more tolerant of an out of spec headlight and fit it just fine.

even though brand A or autozone didnt screw up, its nice to be able to try a different part without getting a restocking fee.

you guys dont ever take stuff back you dont like?
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:55:53 PM EDT
i make sure i want it before i let go of my hard earn cash.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:03:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 12:08:43 AM EDT by 10-100]
so im looking at your avatar and seeing this worked up honda looking car. can you honestly tell me that you have never ordered a damn thing for it that hasnt been to your liking once you received the part and you wouldnt have returned said part because it didnt fit or whatever because you knew before ordering it it would fit perfect???

oh and that you could tell it would fit by looking at it on the damn internet???

if so i am impressed man. me though, im mortal, i fuck up and make mistakes, sometimes its my fault, sometimes the shit just doesnt fit because manufacturer A doesnt fit on manufacturers B's part. its nice to deal with companies who let you fix mistakes by taking stuff back for store credit so you can try another part. when me and the manufacturers i buy parts from get to your level of perfection i guess stores wont need to allow returns at all and all this will be moot. until then i can only wait and tell others to check a return policy before being something.

oh and what exactly is your problem with me giving other users a heads up to check a stores return policy before buying, what exactly is your problem with that?? WTF.. OVER? hinking.gif




Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i make sure i want it before i let go of my hard earn cash. hr
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:08:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 12:08:39 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By 10-100:
ill change it so you quit whining, im a nice guy



Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
i dont understand the title of the thread when it should state "arms makes milspec buis' that cants on my non-milspec rra upper"





you buy aftermarket items that you are not sure you want
dealer or whoever decides not to refund you cause the item works and is as described
you start a thread about buying from someone who does not let you return a used item
misrepresent the problem
and im the whining one?


thats like going to the corner store, buying dr.thunder and expecting it to be exactly like dr.pepper and then wanting a refund
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:17:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 12:48:06 AM EDT by 10-100]
you buy aftermarket items that you are not sure you want BULLSHIT STATEMENT


dealer or whoever decides not to refund you cause the item works and is as described I NEVER WANTED A REFUND, CANT YOU READ???? EXCHANGE FOR ANOTHER BRAND AND I PAY THE DIFFERENCE, WTF IS SO NOVEL ABOUT THIS CONCEPT THAT YOU DONT GET IT????


you start a thread about buying from someone who does not let you return a used item
misrepresent the problem NEVER MISREPRESENTED SHIT, I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES THAT ARMS IS NOT AT FAULT, HOW FAR UP ARMS ASS IS YOUR NOSE?????


and im the whining one? YES YOU WONT QUIT WHINING CAUSE YOU HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH ME TALKING ABOUT ARMS SIGHTS AND DEALERS WHO DONT LET YOU RETURN STUFF FOR AN EXCHANGE.

thats like going to the corner store, buying dr.thunder and expecting it to be exactly like dr.pepper and then wanting a refundHING

ALL IM TRYING TO DO IS TELL OTHERS TO READ A RETURN POLICY BEFORE BUYING SOMETHING. SOMETHING I SHOULD HAVE DONE. WHAT PART OF YOU HAS A PROBLEM WITH THAT AND WHY? ARE YOU COMMUNIST? I DONT GET YOU MAN, IM STARTING TO THINK YOU HAVE ISSUES, I HAVENT EVEN MENTIONED THE NAME OF THE DEALER IN THIS THREAD AND YOU ACT LIKE IM ON A MISSION TO GET SOMEONE. IM SIMPLY EXPLAINING MY EXPERIENCE TO OTHERS AND ASKING OTHER TO READ A RETURN POLICY BEFORE BUYING SOMETHING. IF YOU DONT LIKE THAT YOU CAN GET OUT OF MY THREAD AND START YOUR OWN HERE


Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:58:05 AM EDT
You are trying to return a USED sight because it doesn't fit on your out-of-spec upper, not because anything is wrong with the sight.

You want the dealer to absorb the costs of accepting the return. He will no longer be able to sell the sight as "new", since it is USED. He will have to mark the sight down $10-15 to sell it. This is why restocking fees exist. When he says no, you bitch about it on the internet.

Sounds like you're a jerkoff.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:07:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 1:14:07 AM EDT by 10-100]
and whats with the personal attack calling me a jerkoff?


i like my sight, im keeping it. it works. POA equals POI. thats all i care about.

but ill play along with your since your an asshole. so i ordered a sight to fit a gun. it was canted through no fault of my own. it was USED FOR ALL OF 2 MINUTES. whats the problem with taking it back and letting me buy another if i cover shipping and its not damaged at all and the things has the box and everything else and it is resellable.

so when i test drive a new car it is now a used car? what planet do you live on man?

you have never tried on jeans before buying and them not fit? did you get fucked when you returned them?

my post here is to tell others to read a return policy before buying something. what is so fucking hard to understand about that?

what is your problem with something not fitting being exchanged, how at all am i fucking a dealer by doing this if its in new condition and been test fitted once?? how the fuck am i supposed to know on the internet when i order that the shit wont fit?

it was used for 2 minutes woohoo, i sure some fucked picked up my gun at the gun store a few times before i bought it, does that make it used to?

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:18:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 1:25:46 AM EDT by 10-100]
thanks to you 2 cunts for trying to hijack my thread. seriously, im here to tell someone to read a return policy before buying to cover their ass and you two jokers come on telling me i need to send my rifle away to get fixed. i dont care about the fucking arms sight, its hits what i aim at. how about you two fuck off and start your own threads. he
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:22:39 AM EDT
All I can say is that my ARMS 40 mounts perfectly on my RRA flat top.

I would be looking at a burr somewhere, or a bad screw or something like that. I would not start out thinking there is a major out of spec issue. I hope to learn more as this thread continues.

Rick
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 1:35:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 1:38:30 AM EDT by 10-100]
hey rick thanks for replying but im seriously ok with it.

picture this. the sight leans about 2mm left. i adjust the windage 2mm to the right. all is well because the peep sight lines up still and point of aim still equals point of impact.

would be nice if i could have tried another brand. not trying to get anything fixed or changed or anything done for my problem because i dont have one.

all im doing is tell people to buy from a dealer who lets you return things for full exchange if the parts dont work with what you have and they are still in new condition.

it definitely the upper. the dealer test fit the sight on an inspec upper and sent me a new arms 40L just to see if it would fit better (which completely negates what the thread hijackers were saying about it being used and unsellable, i mean fuck they sent me a new one anyway so why not let me pay more and try another brand for a better fit if they are gonna take the first one back anyway?)

thanks though for trying to help, i just cant see sending off my gun so i dont have to have the windage adjusted 2mm from where it should be. its just a back up sight. if im using it then i have other problems.


this thread doesnt really need responses, there isnt even a question here or a what should i do ??? or anything like that... the whole point is for someone to do something i didnt do, which is read the return policy before buying anything online because there are so many manufacturers making things for a common platform and not all things fit the way they should, some arent on the same page, some make mistakes, big deal we all do
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:27:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 2:27:45 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]
if this isnt about a bad part and more of a dealer/customer issue shouldnt this be in the feedback forum?

or maybe dealt with through the dealer?


i figured since this is the ar discussion forum it was ar related. every dealer has a return policy, it is up to the customer to read it.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:58:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 2:58:17 AM EDT by new-arguy]
argue all you like, but dont resort to names!
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