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Posted: 2/25/2006 12:17:05 AM EDT
Well I hadn't heard [by anyone I knew] of or seen an Eo tech broken till today.

My brother called from Kuwait and said he was going to do some fox hunting and went to turn on his Eo Tech 554 and it didn't turn on. He changed batteries twice with fresh batteries and apparently it is just broken.

I still think its better than an aimpoint but I guess they are breakable.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:58:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:05:42 AM EDT by FishKepr]
I thought mine was broken too until a saw a fix posted here by yojimbo:

Take the batteries out and let the unit 'rest' for about 10 minutes to fully drain the capacitors. Replace with fresh batteries.

Apparently that is the fix it if you forget to turn it off before opening the battery compartment.

ETA the original thread in the archive HERE.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:30:37 AM EDT
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:22:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.



Aimpoints are very tough, seen lots of them dropped and soaked in the georgia rain, anyone ever seen one crap out?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:50:33 AM EDT
554?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:53:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.



Aimpoints are very tough, seen lots of them dropped and soaked in the georgia rain, anyone ever seen one crap out?




Nope.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:59:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.



Aimpoints are very tough, seen lots of them dropped and soaked in the georgia rain, anyone ever seen one crap out?



Sure! On IPSC Open Guns! More often than I like it! I also had trouble with my first Aimpoint M. Nothing is perfect!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:04:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By walli:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.



Aimpoints are very tough, seen lots of them dropped and soaked in the georgia rain, anyone ever seen one crap out?



Sure! On IPSC Open Guns! More often than I like it! I also had trouble with my first Aimpoint M. Nothing is perfect!



Were those commercial or military versions?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:03:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 5:08:31 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By walli:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I've heard more reports of Eotechs going tits up than I have Aimpoints. I know the few I have owned have been quirky.



Aimpoints are very tough, seen lots of them dropped and soaked in the georgia rain, anyone ever seen one crap out?



Sure! On IPSC Open Guns! More often than I like it! I also had trouble with my first Aimpoint M. Nothing is perfect!



Were those commercial or military versions?



Also to be considered is Aimpoints lifetime warranty vs Eotech's limited two year warranty.
That says it all for me. I think the Eotech is superior for CQB, but not near as tough.

Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:12:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
I think the Eotech is superior for CQB, but not near as tough.



That pretty much sums it up for me.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 5:42:15 AM EDT
As a past Aimpoint guy, I've personally had two of them fail and know of a third. My EoTech 552 is working fine right now but I wouldn't be shocked if it goes belly up at some point in the future. If it's electronic, it can fail. I'm around VERY expensive avionics systems at work. Guess what? They are the highest fail items in aviation. I love my EoTech (and the Aimpoint), but the iron sights are the PRIMARY sighting system of a rifle so equipped. Honestly, Trijicon is the one company that has combat optics figured out...
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:09:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
As a past Aimpoint guy, I've personally had two of them fail and know of a third. My EoTech 552 is working fine right now but I wouldn't be shocked if it goes belly up at some point in the future. If it's electronic, it can fail. I'm around VERY expensive avionics systems at work. Guess what? They are the highest fail items in aviation. I love my EoTech (and the Aimpoint), but the iron sights are the PRIMARY sighting system of a rifle so equipped. Honestly, Trijicon is the one company that has combat optics figured out...



What are you doing? Using them for target practice, as the targets?

Yes, I'm old school and Irons are important, it took a long time for me to appreciate the red dot. But the fact is in today's Army irons are being relegated to backup. Of course the good news is since most of us are no longer in the Army we can use any aiming method we want.

As for the Trijicon statement, if you are referring to the ACOG, yes that is likely the best 4X combat optic. But to say Aimpoint and Eotech don't have combat optics "figured out" is just plain silly. They pioneered the non-magnified combat optic, and do have it "figured out".

As I said, we will all have different opinons, some based in real world experience, some not.
We can all buy and use what we like.

And BTW I have seen a few ACOGs have issues as well. The good news is, with the high price comes an excellent lifetime warranty.

Use what suits.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 6:30:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:


What are you doing? Using them for target practice, as the targets?

Yes, I'm old school and Irons are important, it took a long time for me to appreciate the red dot. But the fact is in today's Army irons are being relegated to backup. Of course the good news is since most of us are no longer in the Army we can use any aiming method we want.

As for the Trijicon statement, if you are referring to the ACOG, yes that is likely the best 4X combat optic. But to say Aimpoint and Eotech don't have combat optics "figured out" is just plain silly. They pioneered the non-magnified combat optic, and do have it "figured out".

As I said, we will all have different opinons, some based in real world experience, some not.
We can all buy and use what we like.

And BTW I have seen a few ACOGs have issues as well. The good news is, with the high price comes an excellent lifetime warranty.

Use what suits.



Actually I'm using them for hunting and 3 gun matches...

Reread the post. What I'm getting at is that Trijicon figured out how to give us an illuminated reticle (ACOG, Accupoint, TriPower, Reflex) without failure prone electronics and the associated battery power.

Look, I've owned several Aimpoints (still have one), currently own an EoTech and Accupoint. This is just my thoughts on the matter, don't get bent out of shape about it. Isn't a forum about different opinions being discussed? You've heard mine.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:04:32 PM EDT
He took the batteries out and in ten minutes it was working again so I guess the EO tech is back to rock solid status with me.

I've seen half a dozen aimpoints go down from corroded battery contacts for comparison.

Thanks for the tip.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:36:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:

Originally Posted By _DR:


What are you doing? Using them for target practice, as the targets?

Yes, I'm old school and Irons are important, it took a long time for me to appreciate the red dot. But the fact is in today's Army irons are being relegated to backup. Of course the good news is since most of us are no longer in the Army we can use any aiming method we want.

As for the Trijicon statement, if you are referring to the ACOG, yes that is likely the best 4X combat optic. But to say Aimpoint and Eotech don't have combat optics "figured out" is just plain silly. They pioneered the non-magnified combat optic, and do have it "figured out".

As I said, we will all have different opinons, some based in real world experience, some not.
We can all buy and use what we like.

And BTW I have seen a few ACOGs have issues as well. The good news is, with the high price comes an excellent lifetime warranty.

Use what suits.



Actually I'm using them for hunting and 3 gun matches...

Reread the post. What I'm getting at is that Trijicon figured out how to give us an illuminated reticle (ACOG, Accupoint, TriPower, Reflex) without failure prone electronics and the associated battery power.

Look, I've owned several Aimpoints (still have one), currently own an EoTech and Accupoint. This is just my thoughts on the matter, don't get bent out of shape about it. Isn't a forum about different opinions being discussed? You've heard mine.



Not bent out of shape, I hear you.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:03:19 PM EDT
My brother did have a good point. Something that important should be covered in the manual.

IE; cautioning battery changes to be made with the sight turned off, and reviewing the procedure for draining the capacitor should the batteries be in-advertently changed with the sight powered on.

It would only seem to make sense.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:46:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 11:48:04 AM EDT
A common and in my mind unforgiveable problem with Aimpoints is corrosion of the battery compartment. (That will cause the sight to have very reduced battery life, or to not work at all.)

It happens in humid climates, and that's just humid air in the closed battery compartment. I think they should be gold plating the contacts like a doctor optic to eliminate that.

The soft lenses are another issue. (obviously if you are careful and always clean them properly that isn't an issue.) The round tube is another slight issue with hard use, but nothing a heavy duty monting ring won't cure (something with six bolts that really get torqued with loctite.)

The M3's have real appeal with their long battery life, but if your battery compartment corrodes that could be very dismal performance anyway. (You can clean the compartment but what use is strong battery life that only exists with regular maintenance three to four times a year?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 12:37:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 12:54:03 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Green0:
A common and in my mind unforgiveable problem with Aimpoints is corrosion of the battery compartment. (That will cause the sight to have very reduced battery life, or to not work at all.)

It happens in humid climates, and that's just humid air in the closed battery compartment. I think they should be gold plating the contacts like a doctor optic to eliminate that.

The soft lenses are another issue. (obviously if you are careful and always clean them properly that isn't an issue.) The round tube is another slight issue with hard use, but nothing a heavy duty monting ring won't cure (something with six bolts that really get torqued with loctite.)

The M3's have real appeal with their long battery life, but if your battery compartment corrodes that could be very dismal performance anyway. (You can clean the compartment but what use is strong battery life that only exists with regular maintenance three to four times a year?



If your O-ring is intact there should be no moisture entering into the battery compartment - it may be that some of these were compromised by grains of dirt or sand when changing battery. It's easy to contaminate a critical O-ring, as anyone who has SCUBA dived knows. One of the pitfalls of super-long battery life is you rarely have to check or maintain, but if you do, I don't see how this would occur. A battery compartment with an intact O-ring will not let in moisture, or they would not be waterproof to 2 atmospeheres, which they are. I suspect a compromised seal was the problem. I always carry spare O-rings, as the rubber can suffer decreased performance from prolonged compression, just as in high pressure air equipment.

In any case, if there was humid air in the battery compartment, a little spray of EML Electrical Contact Lubricant every few months will prevent any corrosion on the contacts, no gold plating needed. - the stuff works well even in salt water exposure. Again, a little preventive maintenance goes a long way.

With Eotech you are forced to change your batteries so often that moisture is released frequently, corrosion can still occur if moisture entered, but less likely as user is forced to maintain that space more often (Much more often - I could leave my Aimpoint on for a year - try that with an Eotech and see how far it gets you).

Regardless, no piece of equipment is ever maintenance free, except perhaps a BFR.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 4:40:40 PM EDT
Aimpoints have been in the system long before the EOtech.s.. which means your gonna see Aimpoints that have seen their share of service life and then some... EOTechs only got reliable with he F revisions if memory serves me..

comparing a 5 year old Aimpoint to a NIB Eotech is not exactly an Apple to Apple comparison.

And as to the corrosion in the battery compartment.......worn dried up O rings or not properly maintained by the end user (not an uncommon issue with issued gear)

You don't hear any Aimpoint users in the South complaining about corrosion........


Like anyone should be shocked to hear a EOtech not working.....................Nothing is perfect
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:05:24 PM EDT
We issue both Aimpoints and Eotech 552's. In the past 2 years I have seen an uncomfortable percentage of the 552's stop working as described above. Sometimes when the batteries are taken out and replaced they start working. Sometimes not. It's not a dead battery issue as thats the first thing replaced. They all are the 552's with the rubber switchpad. Luckily no problems with any of the Aimpoint Comp M's or newer M2's.

Full-Auto
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 7:39:19 PM EDT by Green0]
"If your O-ring is intact there should be no moisture entering into the battery compartment - it may be that some of these were compromised by grains of dirt or sand when changing battery. It's easy to contaminate a critical O-ring, as anyone who has SCUBA dived knows. One of the pitfalls of super-long battery life is you rarely have to check or maintain, but if you do, I don't see how this would occur. A battery compartment with an intact O-ring will not let in moisture, or they would not be waterproof to 2 atmospeheres, which they are. I suspect a compromised seal was the problem. I always carry spare O-rings, as the rubber can suffer decreased performance from prolonged compression, just as in high pressure air equipment. "

I'm not confident that O-ring waterproofs the compartment sufficiently (would preffer a rubber seal inside the lid in addition to the O-ring). These problems occured within four months of opening the boxes of brand new sights. If the O-ring can't last four months reliably, replacement O-rings should come in the box and the manual should caution the user to replace them and inform the user of the schedule for the replacement.

My company was in the South when we had all our problems, working at Camp Shelby Mississippi which is basically a swamp and we were getting torential downpours and working in 6-18inches of mud in the field daily for four months. By the time we got to Iraq most of the aimpoints had reduced battery life to such an extent that I would estimate only approx 25% saw use. Most guys experienced such dismal battery life that they removed the sights and went back to carry handles. I fixed a few within my squad that had stopped working with new batteries by removing the spring and scouring the contacts, but soldiers seeing the sight quit working and get fixed have reduced confidence in it.

Our EO-techs faired 100% so apparently the seals are better or the sights less influenced by moisture. It must have been purely coincidental that soldiers changed batteries with the units off and that we didn't see that capacitor problem.

Again if spraying something on the contacts would keep sights operational this is something that BELONGS IN THE MANUAL to accompany a bottle of the said spray at armorer level or within the sight's box, and the sight should come with the treatment applied. The soldier doesn't know-- the manual should inform him.



"We issue both Aimpoints and Eotech 552's. In the past 2 years I have seen an uncomfortable percentage of the 552's stop working as described above. Sometimes when the batteries are taken out and replaced they start working. Sometimes not. It's not a dead battery issue as thats the first thing replaced. They all are the 552's with the rubber switchpad. Luckily no problems with any of the Aimpoint Comp M's or newer M2's. "

The issue isn't a dead battery- it's obviously [from this experience] not turning the sight off for a battery change, and then failing to let the capacitor drain for 10-30minutes before re-inserting batteries.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:30:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 8:40:03 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Green0:


Again if spraying something on the contacts would keep sights operational this is something that BELONGS IN THE MANUAL to accompany a bottle of the said spray at armorer level or within the sight's box, and the sight should come with the treatment applied. The soldier doesn't know-- the manual should inform him.




I don't disagree that it SHOULD be taught as S.O.P. and provided.
But we both know many, many things in the Army are not taught formally, and are not provided by uncle sam. I have been told by returning coworkers, for example, that there were not even enough weapon cleaning materials to go around, they had to ask family and friends to send them. Fucked up? Sure. But this is so typical of the Army I remember. And the Army my father told me about. And the Army my grandfather told me about. Some things never change.

Veteran soldiers will learn the right way to do things, and the field expedient method that works and pass it on to green troops. Like tieing all your shit down with 550 parachute cord. No manual will tell you to do that. And yet when some raw recruit loses a $15,000 set of 3rd Gen NVGs in the brush because he didn't do it, the value of these practices becomes evident.

This is why the experienced NCO corps is critical. Of course there will always be those who say "It wasn't provided. I could not do anything." Well to a good soldier the maximum range of an excuse is Zero.

In my unit, we made do, and we made it work, no matter what. What the gov't didn't give us, we bought with our unit fund or our own dollars. In that respect soldiering has not changed.

Sure, they should bring it up in AARs, do everything they can to make it change for the better, but in the end, the maximum range of an excuse is still zero.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:56:27 AM EDT
Yeah well I would say that something a company of soldiers didn't improvise in eighteen months is something someone needs to know up front. I can't believe anyone would be dreaming up the solution to a EO tech with the capacitor problem either. The piece of gear would do what pieces of "broken gear" do -- make it's way to an armorer who would order a replacement. That's obviously costing the government money, of course that wouldn't be the first thing or even significant compared to the way the government wastes money.

We had several electricians with us and they improvised electrical wiring for an entire patrol base in spair time around 12 hour shifts. The active soldiers downtown didn't have anyone who knew and didn't have airconditioning for eight months. We built our latrines, installed our AC, built our showers, installed our internet, fixed our vehicles.

I understand the validity of your comment pertaining to dummy cording equipment and subsequent loss, but there is no penalty for not knowing how to "Fix" an aimpoint except not having any confidence in aimpoints for the deployment. I don't think a soldier is less for not knowing how to make a deffective peice of equipment perform properly.
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