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Posted: 2/16/2006 3:27:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 3:41:20 PM EDT by megamanrulesall]
Not sure if anyone has any clue what I'm talking about, but my dad has an AR-15 & is looking for some type of mount to mount a Remington 870 underneath it.

He says that that type of mount could be old & not manufactured anymore, but wants one nonethe less. Anyone have any Idea where he could find one to buy. Preferably non online purchased, cause they don't do any online transactions.

If anyone can help, that would be great.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:34:57 PM EDT
790?
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:36:44 PM EDT
You do mean 870 right.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:40:59 PM EDT
My bad, it's to mount a Remington 870.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:19:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 6:22:56 PM EDT by engineer2001]
You mean to make a Master Key?
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/rem870mcs_ax.jpg

www.reference.com/browse/wiki/KAC_Masterkey

Don't know where to find a mount, but it is very popular, thanks to video games that use it (like Ghost Recon and the Delta Force series).

This one for sale looks like a home-made, or something, as the barrel is way too long.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By engineer2001:


This one for sale looks like a home-made, or something, as the barrel is way too long.



I agree, that rifle needs a 20" barrel.

No Expert
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 1:03:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 9:06:35 PM EDT by megamanrulesall]
He says he's looking for a kit so he can make one himself. I don't know why, but he keep pestering me to find it for him. No one would know of a site of something that sells kits to make your own would you? Is it even possible for Civilians to even get one, or is it expensixe to buy a bit?

EDIT: Also, wouldn't it be really heavy & somewhat unweildy do to the firing of the shotgun attachment? Is it mostly just for the fact to have it, even though you aren't going to use it? And could having that & firing it multiple times possibly damage the AR-15?

EDIT2: I mean he did fight in Vietnam. He's getting upset I'm unable to find a kit for him & is going on saying how it was a good combo to have back in Vietnam. So I don't know if it's even a good idea for him to have one. But any continued help would be appreciated.


EDIT#3: Ok, does anyone know where I can find any info about the Ciener Ultimate Over/Under Master key? I already saw the one on securityarms.com.

Perhaps someone knows of a site or something where he could get a price for em. Or at least an estimated guess.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:17:48 PM EDT
shy not make it yourself or have someone with some more knowledge make one for you should be that difficult if you have an upper with a lower rail.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:22:11 PM EDT
I believe KAC (Knight's Armament) makes a mount for an 870 to be mounted under an AR barrel.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:36:30 PM EDT
and whats the reasone for such a heavy AR?
other then breaching doors is there a reason?
I would rather just carry an 870
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:22:05 AM EDT

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:38:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 9:38:54 AM EDT by fq1234]


Knight's Armament Masterkey
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 11:43:44 AM EDT
One thing to remember: This shotgun component would also count as a class 3 since the 870 must be the shorty model correct? Would the AR/870 combo count as a class 3 weapon then? Interesting...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 12:00:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flesheatingvirus:
One thing to remember: This shotgun component would also count as a class 3 since the 870 must be the shorty model correct? Would the AR/870 combo count as a class 3 weapon then? Interesting...



It would either be a Short Barrel shotgun or an AOW.

While attached to the gun, it has a stock and is intended to be fired from the shoulder, so SBS

While not attached to the gun, it has no stock and is not intended to be fired from the shoulder, so AOW

So... I don't know
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 12:37:13 PM EDT
I think your dad is refering to the old mount to place a Remington 870 shotgun beneath a 20" AR. These used to be marketed by L.L. Baston in the 80's to mid 90's or so. I think it was the mount used in the movie "Predator" or at least closely patterned towards it.

I doubt if it's still in production. While the Masterkey pictured above is a better version of that the NFA regulations are paramount in it's use and when placed on an AR it does become a Short barreled shotgun. Not to mention the cost and somewhat rarity of the KAC unit.

I think there may be something on the market that's relative to what he wants as I've seen it linked to in the past. While the shotgun/AR combo isn't really my choice the fact is these threads that pop up regarding it always go downhill fast so little information ever gets out beyond the same pic of the KAC unit being posted.

Here's L.L. Baston's contact info that I found online. I'm not sure if it's current or whether or not they're even still in business.

L. L. Baston Company, Inc
PO BOX 1995
Dept GA
Eldorado, AR 71731
(800) 643-1564
{Parts and accessories for 1911,AR, HK, shotgun}
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 12:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 1:01:07 PM EDT by fq1234]

Originally Posted By 1001001:
While the shotgun/AR combo isn't really my choice the fact is these threads that pop up regarding it always go downhill fast so little information ever gets out beyond the same pic of the KAC unit being posted.





To true, I've only ever seen this pic. There's got to be another pic out there somewhere.

ETA - I just looked through another thread that contains pictures of Reed Knight's MG collection. Even he doesn't have a Masterkey! Very odd.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:23:52 PM EDT
I don't think KAC made it, but I've seen another weapon of this type used by the military in 2 photos. One was in a book U.S. Counter Terrorist Forces-or something like that. I was a side charging manually operated unit fed from a detachable box mag. It had a crazy looking birdcage-ish break/flash suppressor. Someone else posted a different pic of one about a year ago.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:32:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gimme_A_Carbine:
I don't think KAC made it, but I've seen another weapon of this type used by the military in 2 photos. One was in a book U.S. Counter Terrorist Forces-or something like that. I was a side charging manually operated unit fed from a detachable box mag. It had a crazy looking birdcage-ish break/flash suppressor. Someone else posted a different pic of one about a year ago.



I believe you are most likely refering to the Colt offering LSS (lightweight shotgun system)



That's something that's not too likely to be available on the civilian market.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:26:55 PM EDT
I have one, made by TNT Armory. It was bought from a member here couple of years ago, it looks new and never mounted. It looks just like the KAC Masterkey mount, except it doesn't have the longitudinal ligthening cut along the mount. In view that I don't even have a Remy 870 anymore, it's up for sale if y'all want it
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:37:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I have one, made by TNT Armory. It was bought from a member here couple of years ago, it looks new and never mounted. It looks just like the KAC Masterkey mount, except it doesn't have the longitudinal ligthening cut along the mount. In view that I don't even have a Remy 870 anymore, it's up for sale if y'all want it



I'm interested, I sent you an email.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:05:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I have one, made by TNT Armory. It was bought from a member here couple of years ago, it looks new and never mounted. It looks just like the KAC Masterkey mount, except it doesn't have the longitudinal ligthening cut along the mount. In view that I don't even have a Remy 870 anymore, it's up for sale if y'all want it



I'm interested, I sent you an email.



shouldnt megam get first dibs i mean he is the one looking for it.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:17:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rebel102285:

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I have one, made by TNT Armory. It was bought from a member here couple of years ago, it looks new and never mounted. It looks just like the KAC Masterkey mount, except it doesn't have the longitudinal ligthening cut along the mount. In view that I don't even have a Remy 870 anymore, it's up for sale if y'all want it



I'm interested, I sent you an email.



shouldnt megam get first dibs i mean he is the one looking for it.




first come, first serve...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:21:30 PM EDT
Do not do it. ......you'll find it is useless. Just get a AOW licence and get a short shotty and a single point sling.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:50:15 PM EDT
I agree it's fairly without much usefulness. The mount I have is attached to the shotgun via 5 beefy screws, I honestly don't know how they will stand up to recoil. I sold my 870, in any case I wasn't crazy enough to tap the 870's receiver and cut the barrel to create an AOW
I'm not sure how KAC's Masterkey is attached to the 870, the one I have is a copy of it I think, so I assume it's attached the same way.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:37:55 PM EDT
I agree with everyone that says this is a bad idea (heavy unwieldly, etc..), but if you are going to do this be aware of one thing. If you want to attach a short barrelled Remington 870 to an AR it will have to be an 870 that is registered as a Short Barrelled Shotgun (SBS). You CANNOT install a Remington 870 that is registered as an Any Other Weapon (AOW) because the AOW cannot have a stock attached to it. Once you hook the AOW to the AR, the AR becomes the stock and you now have an unregistered SBS in your hands. Just trying to keep people out of trouble.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 6:54:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 3:08:57 AM EDT by fq1234]
Right, aware of all the legalities and this would definately be for sh!ts and giggles. I'm getting ready to send in another F1 for one of my ARs, thought maybe I'd put that aside and do a SBS instead. I already have a Remington 870 with LE Remington top folder. I was thinking about picking up one of those Serbu Super Shorties instead. I think they are a 7.5 inch barrel though so the shotgun would be a little shorter than the rifle barrel, I don't think that will be a problem. The SSS uses a remington 870 receiver, right? Hmmm...I think they may be AOW only though.

by going SBS, I could also detach it, throw a stock on and have a nice shotgun, much nicer than an AOW shotgun IMO.

I'm a little conernced about having the receiver drilled and tapped. The recoil of the 12ga may tear up the holes.

I really wish someone would chime in who has experience with this setup.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:12:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 3:13:04 AM EDT by fq1234]
Found these while looking for info:









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