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Posted: 2/13/2006 12:22:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:27:16 PM EDT
Wish Trijicon had the forethought to out a protective cover on the Dr Optic or at least two side walls. Any word on the BDC calibrations available?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:30:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Pretty nice setup so I ordered 4 of them.



Yeah? Well you're a homo-sexual......
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:36:00 PM EDT
cross hairs with both tritium and fiber optic illumination? sounds like a damn fine acog!


price?


the link you provided states sighting in for the chevron reticle


Reticle: Chevron is designed to be zeroed using the tip at

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:46:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:47:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:49:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:50:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 12:50:27 PM EDT by USMC88-93]
Have any link to a reticle picture or drawing? Unless I'm blind I couldn't find the reticle on Trijicons website.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:53:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:53:57 PM EDT
Is this something that can be added on to existing ACOGs or will they only sell them as a new model?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:03:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:09:03 PM EDT
Ya that is what I meant, the mount. Hope they decide to sell it as an accessory.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:44:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Ya that is what I meant, the mount. Hope they decide to sell it as an accessory.





grant stocks mounts to for std acogs to mount the reddots and they have been available for some time now.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:53:31 PM EDT
Of course they post this after my car goes into the shop...

www.gunblast.com/Trijicon_ACOG-Docter.htm


Fiber optic BAC allows the reticle to be illuminated at all times.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:09:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 3:12:41 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:26:38 PM EDT
So whats the purpose of having both lines so close? If it's not a BDC, then what?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:36:47 PM EDT
Damn,


It's about time they produced a model with the BDC stadia lines illuminated via the fiber optics.

Grant-- did they say if they will be offering this reticle in a stand. TA31 without the Doctor optic or in other ACOG series? I've been waiting for something like this for years!!!!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:53:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:53:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:17:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:21:57 PM EDT
I maybe totally off, but I remember something about 100, 200 and 300 POAs on the cross hairs.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:11:07 PM EDT
It's to bad they are apparently not doing the FULL CENTER illumination thru the 400M stadia line like on the Ta01NSN model.


C4-- are you saying one could special order a TA31 or TA11 series ACOG with this type of reticle(maybe even FULL LINE ILLUM.) from Trijicon? I thought that they would only do this on a multiple unit order? Let me know, my TA11C needs a partner!!!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:16:50 PM EDT
Interesting.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:23:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:36:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 6:37:26 PM EDT by Raven6]
C4,

Thanks-I knew it sounded too good to be true. I hope Trijicon has finally figured out that there are many of us, both military and civi, that have been wanting ACOG'S that have the BDC stadia lines illuminated via the fiber optics/tritium full time. Targets at longer ranges and/or under cover can be very hard to engage with the stand. black NON-BAC cross hair rets. Illuminating the stadia will be a HUGE advantage-I hope they offer this new reticle on other ACOG"S down the road.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:02:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 8:06:16 PM EDT by inkaybee]
Here is a little Monday morning quarter backing if I may.

First off, let me preface my comments by saying I have been using a Docter on top of a TA01NSN since sometime in 2001. I had to use my own home built mount in the early years. Also, I have been using a TA31 for the last two years. I like my NSN/Docter. I don't have much use for my TA31.

I think Trijicon is moving in the right direction with the TA31DOC but they kinda missed the mark.

For me, the thing I like about the TA01NSN reticle is how fine and precise it is. One of the many problems I have had with my TA31 is that in full sunlight the reticle is so bright it gets fuzzy and makes it hard to be precise. This is why some guys cover up the fiberoptic on their TA31s. To me the BAC crossharis on the new scope make no sense.

Trijicon should punt on the whole BAC thing. It don't work so good. The future is 1x and 4x in one optic (whether it is done like Schimdt and Bender, Night Force, Elcan, or Trijicon/Docter).

In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

If they wanted to get real innovative, instead of making a flimsy little mount for the Docter they should have retooled and forged the Docter housing right into the occular piece of the ACOG. One of the main attractions of the ACOG is its' tough-as-nails construction. The Docter does not live up to the toughness standard set by the ACOG. I treat my rifles relatively kind and my Docter has a couple of dents in the hood; and, I don't even know how they got there.

The only reason I am beeing so critical of Trijicon is becasue I think they are close to having a "perfect" optic. In my opinion it would not take much tweaking to get there. Just ditch the BAC, and make the Docter part of the optic not an after thought.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:06:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By inkaybee:
Here is a little Monday morning quarter backing if I may.

First off, let me preface my comments by saying I have been using a Docter on top of a TA01NSN since sometime in 2001. I had to use my own home built mount in the early years. Also, I have been using a TA31 for the last two years. I like my NSN/Docter. I don't have much use for my TA31.

I think Trijicon is moving in the right direction with the TA31DOC but they kinda missed the mark.

For me, the thing I like about the TA01NSN reticle is how fine and precise it is. One of the many problems I have had with my TA31 is that in full sunlight the reticle is so bright it gets fuzzy and makes it hard to be precise. This is why some guys cover up the fiberoptic on their TA31s. To me the BAC crossharis on the new scope make no sense.

Trijicon should punt on the whole BAC thing. It don't work so good. The future is 1x and 4x in one optic (whether it is done like Schimdt and Bender, Night Force, Elcan, or Trijicon/Docter).

In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

If they wanted to get real innovative, instead of making a flimsy little mount for the Docter they should have retooled and forged the Docter housing right into the occular piece of the ACOG. One of the main attractions of the ACOG is its' tough-as-nails construction. The Docter does not live up to the toughness standard set by the ACOG. I treat my rifles relatively kind and my Docter has a couple of dents in the hood; and, I don't even know how they got there.

The only reason I am beeing so critical of Trijicon is becasue I think they are close to having a "perfect" optic. In my opinion it would not take much tweaking to get there. Just ditch the BAC, and make the Docter part of the optic not an after thought.



Amen. I couldn't agree more. When I saw this scope, I said what is the point. Trijicon's claim to fame is that their ACOG's with the BDC were just as fast indoors with the BAC Concept. So I asked, if that is the case, then why have the Docter sight on top of the TA31? The ideal combination would be the TA01 with the Docter sight. THis way you get precision with the ACOG and speed with the Docter.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:38:15 PM EDT
I think, for me at least, the perfect optic would be a TA31F with the full BDC stadia lines illuminated at all times. Speed and precision all in one package!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:16:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:25:20 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By paulosantos:

Originally Posted By inkaybee:
Here is a little Monday morning quarter backing if I may.

First off, let me preface my comments by saying I have been using a Docter on top of a TA01NSN since sometime in 2001. I had to use my own home built mount in the early years. Also, I have been using a TA31 for the last two years. I like my NSN/Docter. I don't have much use for my TA31.

I think Trijicon is moving in the right direction with the TA31DOC but they kinda missed the mark.

For me, the thing I like about the TA01NSN reticle is how fine and precise it is. One of the many problems I have had with my TA31 is that in full sunlight the reticle is so bright it gets fuzzy and makes it hard to be precise. This is why some guys cover up the fiberoptic on their TA31s. To me the BAC crossharis on the new scope make no sense.

Trijicon should punt on the whole BAC thing. It don't work so good. The future is 1x and 4x in one optic (whether it is done like Schimdt and Bender, Night Force, Elcan, or Trijicon/Docter).

In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

If they wanted to get real innovative, instead of making a flimsy little mount for the Docter they should have retooled and forged the Docter housing right into the occular piece of the ACOG. One of the main attractions of the ACOG is its' tough-as-nails construction. The Docter does not live up to the toughness standard set by the ACOG. I treat my rifles relatively kind and my Docter has a couple of dents in the hood; and, I don't even know how they got there.

The only reason I am beeing so critical of Trijicon is becasue I think they are close to having a "perfect" optic. In my opinion it would not take much tweaking to get there. Just ditch the BAC, and make the Docter part of the optic not an after thought.



Amen. I couldn't agree more. When I saw this scope, I said what is the point. Trijicon's claim to fame is that their ACOG's with the BDC were just as fast indoors with the BAC Concept. So I asked, if that is the case, then why have the Docter sight on top of the TA31? The ideal combination would be the TA01 with the Docter sight. THis way you get precision with the ACOG and speed with the Docter.



For many people BAC is wonderful at getting on target without "hunting" for distant targets through the magnifed view and SUCK up close espcially in the dark when you use a flashlight. The Dr Optic sloves the CQB issues AND it self adjust to your flashlight brightening and dimming itself as you hit the light. I think its a wonderful concept having used TA01, TA31 and Dr Optic sights. If you dont see the point you probably have not used all these optics for any length of time. I never had a problem with overillumination unless I was trying to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards and that is not the purpose of this scope. The fact they will reinforce the Dr Optic means they are aware of the fragillity of the Dr Optics housing and shows some forward thinking. I give big props to Trijcon on this set up. its ONLY negative is the height over bore of the Dr Optic and different cheek weld required. Other than that it is perfect IMO. Oh except it needs a way to turn the knobs yet stay stable like the S&B Gen 2 pull out knobs so you can enter a correction when your suppressor is mounted yet not have them bumped off accidentally.

Very tempting option to the Short Dot to solve the 1X 4X issue. Both optics self regualte and will last for years with no battery changes. Very small and light. Less expensive. Even the Larue mount is less expensive.

Wish they had a 75 grain 2500-2600 fps flat top option though.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:47:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:16:50 PM EDT by inkaybee]
DeveL. The HOB and cheekweld issues can be overcome with repetitive training. When I try to shoulder my Aimpoint equiped carbine I invariably find myself looking over the top of the Aimpoint

As for HOB, given the range at which the Docter is used and the size of the target, 2 or 3 inches vertically is not that far off.

I am not saying this dual opict set up is the be all end all. I admittedly have no experiance with the S&B, the Specter DR, or any 1x-4x scope for that matter. I just know this set up works for me and with a little refinement it could work better.

A battery powered, adjustable reticle on the 4x would be nice. That's one thing the other systems will always have over the Docter/ACOG.

You may have caught me on the issue of the BAC reticle being too bright. Come to think of it the only time I remember it being an issue is when I am shooting for groups (durring load development). Probably not the issue I made it out to be.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:14:47 PM EDT
DeveL

The NSN reticle may be closer than you think for a 75 grain Hornady with a BC of .395 @2600 fps. I don't know what altitude your at but lets say 1000ft. with a fifty yard zero your trajectory should look kinda like this:

100m +1.1 inch
200m -2.8
300m -16
400m -40
500m -79
600m -134

the NSN reticle is very close

100m 0
200m -4
300m -16
400m -39
500m -77
600m -134
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:00:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 10:04:18 PM EDT by DevL]
My altitude is a good 25 feet. Houston used to be a swamp. That is pretty cool with the 50 yard zero. How far off will the current reticle be?

Oh is this Dr Optic the 3.5 MOA version or the 7 MOA version? What Generation? I thnk they are on Gen 3 now and I am using a Gen 2 3.5 MOA. I find the reticle a little dim and a little small for close range use. If it were brighter like the Gen 3 is supposed to be 3.5 might be good. I may have my Generations confused.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 3:37:53 AM EDT
I've wanted a BAC ACOG for a while now. Lately I've been drooling over the TA01/DOC combos. I just worry about how fragile the DOC is.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 4:29:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By inkaybee:
In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

.



Wasn't CSGunworks offering a TAO1NSN at one time with Red tritium in the crosshair ret.?
It seams to me I saw that on their web site.
chuck
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:04:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eaglecp:

Originally Posted By inkaybee:
In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

.



Wasn't CSGunworks offering a TAO1NSN at one time with Red tritium in the crosshair ret.?
It seams to me I saw that on their web site.
chuck



I have seen what is called a TA01NSNFLR. Full Line Red but it looks to have the TA01 reticle which is calibrated for m193 from a carry handle. For those that BDC is not such a big deal that would be a great choice.

Trijicon also has a TA01C which is the NSN Reticle with red tritium but it lacks the BUIS

Trijicon ought to just open up a custom reticle shop and charg geeks like me big bucks for custom reticles.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:54:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 9:59:57 AM EDT by chewbacca]
TA01 w/ Jpoint and Accupoint has, IMHO, been the ideal for some time now. I not too impressed with the exposed Dr. and the new reticle.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 12:39:07 PM EDT
As long as we're all posting our wish lists, here's what I want:

TA01 4x with NSN reticle, with full-time red illumination. Flattop calibrated BDC. Tritium and Fiber optics.

Piggybacked onto that a Fiber optic/tritium red dot sight. Think if a Trijicon Reflex and Dr. Optic had a child together. It can't be that hard to make. That way Trijicon could ahve something 100% made by them (and something that I would buy TODAY if it existed)
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 11:53:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 11:54:19 AM EDT by eaglecp]
I think this ret. Is a winner. I have often wished for a Crosshair / NSN type ret. in a TA31 series. I on the other hand have no use for the DOC site On top.
Grant
Anyway of knowing if it will be available without the DOC site. Maybe have the option of buying it with or without it??
If not I gaurentee I would be taking it off and selling it on the EE, someone would buy it for a Back up
chuck
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:44:57 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:20:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 4:58:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 5:11:05 AM EDT by eaglecp]
Email sent Grant

I am very excited about this scope from trijicon, I just would really really think that these guys would think about offering it with and without the DOC. Someone tell me why that doesnt make sense? Ok Ok I know More Money and marketing i understand but.... Also would anyone else like to see this in a TA11 series, for say their 308. Come on Trijicon Your really onto something here now lets take it that last step.
The biggest advantage I think is the TA01 Retical with center Illum. for daylight. The realitivly small ret. in all other TA31 series including my beloved TA31F always did bother me and was sometimes hard to pick up. The larger Cross hair that pretty much takes up the entire site picture like a traditional scope, with the advantage of BAC and center day time Illumination draws your eye in to the center better, or at least I would think so.
Ill have my eye out for this one.
chuck
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
I didn't see it listed without, but am sure we can work something out where I keep the Dr and mount.
C4



If the takeoff Dr. and mount will fit on a TA31- RCO, I'd be in for it.

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:02:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:17:21 AM EDT
I'm actually fine with my RCO at close range.

The DOC's a neat gadget, but I don't think I'd ever bother with it. Neat new reticle though.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:23:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:44:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 1:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By WiseguyThreeOne:
I'm actually fine with my RCO at close range.

The DOC's a neat gadget, but I don't think I'd ever bother with it. Neat new reticle though.




For all of you that are "fine" with a 4X ACOG, I have a test for you. Setup up a Gauntlet with targets about 7-8 feet apart from one another (even rows) and 10 deep. Walk down the middle of them engaging each target (double taps will do). You will find that going left, right. left, right will cause you to lose your place and make it difficult to find your next target.

Stand or walking towards one or two targets in front of you is a piece of cake. Having to move, shoot and find your target (at close range) is much harder to do with an ACOG IMHO.



C4


If I got to engage 20 targets, I'm screwed anyway. Time to call for fire.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 2:46:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:04:13 PM EDT
I can't believe the trijicon people PURPOSE built this and still didn't forward mount the DR optic.

Anyone who has to wear a helmet or who is wearing a hat of any kind is not served well by the rear mounted DR. The eye relief of the primary optic is so short that the helmet is often in contact with the DR, making aquiring the sights a royal pain in the ass.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:24:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paulosantos:

Originally Posted By inkaybee:
Here is a little Monday morning quarter backing if I may.

First off, let me preface my comments by saying I have been using a Docter on top of a TA01NSN since sometime in 2001. I had to use my own home built mount in the early years. Also, I have been using a TA31 for the last two years. I like my NSN/Docter. I don't have much use for my TA31.

I think Trijicon is moving in the right direction with the TA31DOC but they kinda missed the mark.

For me, the thing I like about the TA01NSN reticle is how fine and precise it is. One of the many problems I have had with my TA31 is that in full sunlight the reticle is so bright it gets fuzzy and makes it hard to be precise. This is why some guys cover up the fiberoptic on their TA31s. To me the BAC crossharis on the new scope make no sense.

Trijicon should punt on the whole BAC thing. It don't work so good. The future is 1x and 4x in one optic (whether it is done like Schimdt and Bender, Night Force, Elcan, or Trijicon/Docter).

In my opinion they should have put the Docter on a TA01NSN with red tritium. I say this because the amber reticle has a real bad habit of just disappearing for about 15 minutes twice a day, at dawn and at dusk.

If they wanted to get real innovative, instead of making a flimsy little mount for the Docter they should have retooled and forged the Docter housing right into the occular piece of the ACOG. One of the main attractions of the ACOG is its' tough-as-nails construction. The Docter does not live up to the toughness standard set by the ACOG. I treat my rifles relatively kind and my Docter has a couple of dents in the hood; and, I don't even know how they got there.

The only reason I am beeing so critical of Trijicon is becasue I think they are close to having a "perfect" optic. In my opinion it would not take much tweaking to get there. Just ditch the BAC, and make the Docter part of the optic not an after thought.



Amen. I couldn't agree more. When I saw this scope, I said what is the point. Trijicon's claim to fame is that their ACOG's with the BDC were just as fast indoors with the BAC Concept. So I asked, if that is the case, then why have the Docter sight on top of the TA31? The ideal combination would be the TA01 with the Docter sight. THis way you get precision with the ACOG and speed with the Docter.




so that makes +2
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:35:41 AM EDT
Ok, I have to jump in here...Understanding the cqb drill...How far are the targets to my left and right? I use a TA01, and in this case I would look over the top of my gunsight, give each target a pinch or two of 5.56...I have shot IPSC and Tactical/Defense for years, and there is a point where, assuming you are familiar with your weapon, sight picture is not something you look for due to the looking for a dot, crosshairs, or a picture of your girlfriend will get you killed. Sometimes it's just time to rock 'n roll....
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