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Posted: 1/30/2006 8:59:53 AM EDT
Ok, I know this seems like a stupid question, but bear me out....

I just bought a TA01 and took it to the range the other day. After zeroing it in, I started to shoot it for real, and found that my groups werent much better with the scope than with irons. I'm by no means skilled with irons (5-7" groups at 100yrds) but I wasn't doing a whole lot better with the ACOG.

I tried to apply the same principles for irons to scope shooting, watching my breathing, trigger squeeze, ect. Another problem I had was the lack of a good cheek weld. It's a carry handle mounted scope, so it's tough to get a good cheek weld.

One final problem I had was that in an effort to not choke the rifle, I was holding it lightly. With the ACOG's poor eye relief, I keep hitting myself in the glasses with it.

O wise sages of ARFCOM, please make me the deadly sniper that I am in my dreams.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:02:57 AM EDT
Good ammo, lighter trigger pull, and lots of practice will shrink those groups considerably.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:08:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 9:11:03 AM EDT by bloodmoon]

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Ok, I know this seems like a stupid question, but bear me out....

I just bought a TA01 and took it to the range the other day. After zeroing it in, I started to shoot it for real, and found that my groups werent much better with the scope than with irons. I'm by no means skilled with irons (5-7" groups at 100yrds) but I wasn't doing a whole lot better with the ACOG.

I tried to apply the same principles for irons to scope shooting, watching my breathing, trigger squeeze, ect. Another problem I had was the lack of a good cheek weld. It's a carry handle mounted scope, so it's tough to get a good cheek weld.

One final problem I had was that in an effort to not choke the rifle, I was holding it lightly. With the ACOG's poor eye relief, I keep hitting myself in the glasses with it.

O wise sages of ARFCOM, please make me the deadly sniper that I am in my dreams.

An ACOG isnt going to make you or anyone else an excellent shooter. It sounds like you might benifit from an added cheek rest. Bushmaster and others sell addon cheek rests. I can not figure out how you are hitting yourself with the scope. I have a 308 TAO1 ACOG mounted on a JLD PTR91 with the HK telescoping stock and I have never hit myself with the scope. And I will assure you that the recoil coming out of a Light HK91 clone is a hell of a lot worse than a 5.56 rifle.
How often do you practice. I shoot at least 300 round every other week.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:11:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Another problem I had was the lack of a good cheek weld. It's a carry handle mounted scope, so it's tough to get a good cheek weld.



Standard problem w/ A2 upper (although you gave no info on your rifle, so I'm guessing here, or the ammunition you were using, both of which have a direct bearing on your query), which is why most prefer the A3 "flat-top" AR15/M16s, to get the scope down where a consistent cheek-weld will yield better groups.

Mike

ps - how about re-posting and including some rifle, (brand, twist rate, length, type) and ammo (brand & bullet weight) info
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:13:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Ok, I know this seems like a stupid question, but bear me out....

I just bought a TA01 and took it to the range the other day. After zeroing it in, I started to shoot it for real, and found that my groups werent much better with the scope than with irons. I'm by no means skilled with irons (5-7" groups at 100yrds) but I wasn't doing a whole lot better with the ACOG.

I tried to apply the same principles for irons to scope shooting, watching my breathing, trigger squeeze, ect. Another problem I had was the lack of a good cheek weld. It's a carry handle mounted scope, so it's tough to get a good cheek weld.

One final problem I had was that in an effort to not choke the rifle, I was holding it lightly. With the ACOG's poor eye relief, I keep hitting myself in the glasses with it.

O wise sages of ARFCOM, please make me the deadly sniper that I am in my dreams.

Are you close to Fort Lauderdale.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:14:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USAF_Hop_N_Pop:
Ok, I know this seems like a stupid question, but bear me out....

I just bought a TA01 and took it to the range the other day. After zeroing it in, I started to shoot it for real, and found that my groups werent much better with the scope than with irons. I'm by no means skilled with irons (5-7" groups at 100yrds) but I wasn't doing a whole lot better with the ACOG.

I tried to apply the same principles for irons to scope shooting, watching my breathing, trigger squeeze, ect. Another problem I had was the lack of a good cheek weld. It's a carry handle mounted scope, so it's tough to get a good cheek weld.

One final problem I had was that in an effort to not choke the rifle, I was holding it lightly. With the ACOG's poor eye relief, I keep hitting myself in the glasses with it.

O wise sages of ARFCOM, please make me the deadly sniper that I am in my dreams.



Aren't you a little close to it?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:17:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 9:17:51 AM EDT by cfek9]
mount it to the flattop.


the gear can only aid you in making better shots.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:21:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:
An ACOG isnt going to make you or anyone else an excellent shooter. It sounds like you might benifit from an added cheek rest. Bushmaster and others sell addon cheek rests. I can not figure out how you are hitting yourself with the scope. I have a 308 TAO1 ACOG mounted on a JLD PTR91 with the HK telescoping stock and I have never hit myself with the scope. And I will assure you that the recoil coming out of a Light HK91 clone is a hell of a lot worse than a 5.56 rifle.
How often do you practice. I shoot at least 300 round every other week.




bloodmoon is entirely correct, the real funtion of any scope is to actually simplify the firing solution. Instead of having to concentrate on the front sight through the rear sight, you have one simple sight picture of an aim point projected onto the same plane as the target. But you still have to do all the basics to shoot correctly (i.e. focus on the aim point) and don't forget to follow through.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:28:55 PM EDT
Tag yup scope wont cut your groups down, where are you shooting?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:35:41 AM EDT
Y'all are right, I should have told you a bit more about my rifle:

DPMS 16" M4 contour barrel. YHM FF handguards. A3 upper, but I mount the scope on the carry handle. If it's that big of a difference I'll pony up for a mount for the flattop mount, but i'd like to keep it on the CH if i can. I shot 4 different kinds of ammo with similar results, leading me to believe that the problem lies somewhere squarely behind the rifle. I was shooting XM855PD, WWB 55gr (the Wally World stuff, not Q3131) Radway SS109, and Wolf 55gr. Not the pricest ammo by any account, but definately more accurate than I am at this point.

As for where I'm shooting, not sure if you want location of my ass (Miami) or my shots (about a 5" group around center)
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:39:50 AM EDT
I am still ost on the scope hitting you and the acog having poor eye relief I have a TA-11 and have 0 problems with Eye relief I have it mounted as far forward on my A3 receiver as it can go. Yes putting directly to the Upper would help you out with the cheek weld, or get a cheek weld add on.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:20:41 AM EDT
One of the specific design differences between the TA01 and TA11 was an increase in eye relief. The Eye relief thing was always a criticism of the TA01 models. I like to shoot NTCH, so I'm used to choking up on the sights. I'll try extending my buttstock a click to force myself to move back.

Yes, I'm an idiot, and am quite embarassed by the scope hitting me, but I figured I'd lay it all out.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:48:54 AM EDT
Ok you've just learned you can't BUY skill in the form of a gadget. Scopes only let you SEE better, they don't make you a better shooter. It still comes down to breath control, trigger control and a good cheekweld (which you indicate you're missing).

You just need more training and practice and you'll see an improvement.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:14:35 PM EDT
practice practice practice

rinse and repeat

The only person that was perfect right out the box was Chuck Norris. Then God broke the mold
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 1:56:44 PM EDT
Sorry, nobody has mention it yet....Have you tried adjusting the nut behind the stock yet?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:29:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Timinem:
Sorry, nobody has mention it yet....Have you tried adjusting the nut behind the stock yet?



Not sure what you mean. Mine is a 4 pos collapsable stock. not sure if that applies.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:58:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Ok you've just learned you can't BUY skill in the form of a gadget. Scopes only let you SEE better, they don't make you a better shooter. It still comes down to breath control, trigger control and a good cheekweld (which you indicate you're missing). You just need more training and practice and you'll see an improvement.



Forest hit the nail on the head. Take the reccomendation.
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