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Posted: 1/21/2006 1:52:48 PM EDT
I have a pre 64 model 70 25.06 topped off with a Leupold 4.5 X 14 VXIII. If I switch to Leupold brand, Weaver style , Quick Detach rings and bases, could I swap this scope between the model 70 and an AR15 24" varmint that I plan on building?
If this will not work, can someone if possible tell me how I accomplish this?
I am trying to save myself some initial cash output by using the same scope on both guns.
Thanks to all for any help or advice.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 11:55:06 PM EDT
you will have to re-zero each time you swap to a differnt rifle since each rifle will shoot differently and the only way i can see it working is if you mark or make note of where the zero is for each rifle and return it to that but then you will still have problems with teh rings returning zero.



best way to do it? save up for another scope
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:04:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
you will have to re-zero each time you swap to a differnt rifle since each rifle will shoot differently and the only way i can see it working is if you mark or make note of where the zero is for each rifle and return it to that but then you will still have problems with teh rings returning zero.



best way to do it? save up for another scope


+1
Can a scope get "loose" due to too much adjusting?
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:39:21 AM EDT
more susceptable to damaging the turrets or dials from frequent adjusting due to human mistakes
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 3:18:44 PM EDT
I have no problem with having to rezero after making the flip-flop, as long as it will work!

I told my wife that I was just buying one lower and not building a rifle. (Tiny fib there so don't say anything) I have since purchased at auction a used DPMS 24" fluted SS High rider upper with chromed bolt carrier group and Harris bi-pod.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=42743456

I am searching for a stock and lower parts kit with a match trigger to complete the job. How will the fit be as far as looking through the scope with the high upper? Is a lower upper more desireable? What is a good stock for a laying down on the ground shooting rodents or sitting at a bench type gun?

I purchased one of the Doublestar lowers with the NorCal group buy through the Calguns.net board, then a day later drove down to BakersField and filled out the paperwork for a Sun Devil lower.

Is one lower better than the other? or are they pretty much all the same as long as they are milspec?

This is my first (and soon second) build and the only experience I have with this type firearm is from my time in the Coast Guard with a standard issue M16.

Boarding-Team-Leader
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:01:04 PM EDT
Boarding-Team-Member,

I would bet that if you bought a pair of good quality steel bases and rings (Leupold MkIV, Badger, Nightforce,...) you could swap that scope back and forth with no trouble. That is, after ou properly install the bases and rings (which is very important), I'll bet it would repeat zero to within about 2 MOA or less.

This may not be something you want but its something I did, so I know it works. I bought a pair of Kelbly-style, benchrest scope bases and mounted my 3.5-10X40mm LRT M1 in Kelbly rings. These are super-precision fit. That scope slides right on and off with no loss in zero. I swap it between a 40-X and an AR flat top (that has a Kelbly base on it).
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:02:21 PM EDT
Boarding-Team-Member,

I would bet that if you bought a pair of good quality steel bases and rings (Leupold MkIV, Badger, Nightforce,...) you could swap that scope back and forth with no trouble. That is, after ou properly install the bases and rings (which is very important), I'll bet it would repeat zero to within about 2 MOA or less.

This may not be something you want but its something I did, so I know it works. I bought a pair of Kelbly-style, benchrest scope bases and mounted my 3.5-10X40mm LRT M1 in Kelbly rings. These are super-precision fit. That scope slides right on and off with no loss in zero. I swap it between a 40-X and an AR flat top (that has a Kelbly base on it).
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 5:20:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 7:02:11 PM EDT
Mike,
Why do you not recommend it?

Boarding-Team-Leader
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 8:33:23 PM EDT
It's always possible, but I'd be REALLY surprised if the slots on the mounting bases from your Model 70 and your AR.

For what you're going to spend on new bases and rings, you could purchase yourself an inexpensive (not crap) scope that would hold you for a few months until you could get a better one. I'm sure Mike could help you find a reasonably priced "temporary" scope. After all, how much is "too much"? You could get a Bushnell 3200 10x with mil-dots for around $179. Even though some scoff, the Mueller optics are darn decent stuff for what you will pay for one ($125 - $225 depending on the model).

OR, if your model 70 is mostly a "deer" rifle, just take the scope off, put it in rings on the AR, and leave it there... all the while, you should STILL be saving up for a separate scope for one or the other.


I am searching for a stock and lower parts kit with a match trigger to complete the job. How will the fit be as far as looking through the scope with the high upper? Is a lower upper more desireable?

You need height for scoping an AR. You can't use a back up iron sight on the DPMS high rise flat-top, but you also don't need special mounts. I'd rather have one "standard height" flat-top over two of those high riser uppers myself, but for a varmint gun, I think they're fine.


What is a good stock for a laying down on the ground shooting rodents or sitting at a bench type gun?

Depends again on your price range. Standard A2 stock would probably work better for prone and bench shooting. The Cavalry Arms "C1" stock is 5/8" shorter, and I really like that length, but longer is probably better with your intended use. Both options are in the $50 - $75 price range including buffer, tube, and spring.

If you've just got some extra money, the new MagPul adjustable stock is the schiznitz, but it's over $200, so I'm thinking you're not going to be interested in that, given your scope situation.

Good luck on your build. You'll be "fibbing" to your wife a LOT now.

Just repeat after me...
"No honey, it's the same one, it's just got green furniture on it now".
"No honey, it's the same one, I just sold the other scope and got this one for the same price".
"No honey, it's the same one, I just had the barrel shortened".
"No honey, it's the same one, i just had the barrel re-extended".
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:31:20 PM EDT
Onslaught,
The 25.06 is the smallest centerfire rifle I have and it has been good on rodents out to about 500yds. (7mm mag and 338 Win mag too expensive to shoot and I take almost as much of a pounding as the rodents!) The 25.06 really blows the hell out of them but most of the time I do not get to see the bullet impact results as they occur due to the recoil. I am building the AR so I can see the hits, and to get off that quick second shot when I have the opportunity to take more than one at a time. I purchased the 4.5 X 14 just for the rodent shooting so I guess I should just put the 30 or so year old purple VXI 3 X 9. back on the 25.06 and mount the new scope on the new AR.

So with the new DPMS upper do I just put standard height weaver style rings on the scope, and then mount directly to the upper? The objective lens on the scope is a 40mm.

Not as much fun this way, not having to sneak around behind the wifes back for a while. There is always a next time though.
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:52:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 9:53:51 PM EDT by Green0]
Jeez I see a few possible options. I would probably reccomend the Leupold QR bases [the std dovetail looking rings that drop in and then you lock them with the switch on the base]- that's what ARMS Tech uses on their takedown rifles so it must return to zero closely. The base and rings should allow you to return within 1/2MOA. That's the leupold claim as far as I know and the reviewer using the ARms Tech TTR claimed it worked. I don't think they would be selling it with a tactical rifle if it didn't work.

There is a company making a multi-zero scope for situations such as this [marketed for the Sako Quad]. That would work great and give you 2 zero settings and 2 hold over settings and that other rifles elevation zero might just correspond to a useful range if it is on the right side of the zero- I would reccomend zeroing both for 300yds and setting a 400yd zero [or like I said if that third zero works out to like 375-425ish you could figure a 400yd hold off of that and set the second zero for that sight at 500.

I hope you get the idea here-- a little futsing and you might find a good way to wring the most out of that.

Or you could get a Shepherd that works out to a compromise between matching the balistics of both rounds and zero both and paint mark zeros and just leave the caps off and ajust the zeros when needed and use the reticle.

The leupold would be the least workable- one rifle would be zeroed at zeros and the other would be zeroed not on the zeros of the knobs. That would work out OK but would be a little confusing to deal with. I guess you coudl still work up range cards for both, As far as ajusting it's no problem the tactical scopes were designed for repeated ajustments. don't worry about it.


Link Posted: 1/23/2006 9:59:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green0:
Jeez I see a few possible options...
There is a company making a multi-zero scope for situations such as this [marketed for the Sako Quad]...

Or you could get a Shepherd...


Yeah, but once he buys one of those scopes, then he's no longer only got "one scope"

There may be "options", but they are WAY down the list below "use 2 scopes". All those QD mounts and Burris Quad Zero scopes etc. would cost more than purchasing a second optic.

Sounds like he does have a second scope after all, he just wanted to use the new 4x5-14 he just purchased on both rifles...
Link Posted: 1/23/2006 10:16:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/23/2006 10:37:40 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By Onslaught:

Originally Posted By Green0:
Jeez I see a few possible options...
There is a company making a multi-zero scope for situations such as this [marketed for the Sako Quad]...

Or you could get a Shepherd...


Yeah, but once he buys one of those scopes, then he's no longer only got "one scope"

There may be "options", but they are WAY down the list below "use 2 scopes". All those QD mounts and Burris Quad Zero scopes etc. would cost more than purchasing a second optic.

Sounds like he does have a second scope after all, he just wanted to use the new 4x5-14 he just purchased on both rifles...



I'm not sure you are implying this, so let me clear the air. A good base and good rings is essential to accuracy. They must also be installed properly. A great scope on crappy rings and base or improperly installed is not accurate and certainly isn't likely to repeat zero after removal and reinstallation. Get good rings and bases.

If you stick with true Picatinny rail geometries (not Weaver), the scope rings should fit both bases. After all, that's why the Picatinny standard was developed.

An important issue has been raised - scope height above the bore and how this will differ between the two rifles. Usually, the AR will dictate a pretty tall set of rings be installed on the scope, even for a 40mm objective. My situation and solution, which meant this was never an issue for me, is an adjustable cheek piece on one or both rifles. My rifles have them. I do not know if yours do.

Knowing you can remove and replace your optic is important to me. I like the idea I can shoot irons any time I want. I perceive a benefit of its own.

I have never yet been to a 600 yard prone match where I chose to shoot my scope, even when it was allowed and others did so. I use my scopes for load development and accuracy testing. I like shooting iron sights. If I were a long distance hunter (200 to 400 yards), I'd definitely use a scope.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 3:36:32 AM EDT
regardless of them repeating zero two rifles are not going to have the same zero. so everytime he wants to shoot one of the rifles with the one scope he will have to re-zero or start over. neither will be ready to go.

but hey its your money do as you please.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 12:47:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 12:49:14 PM EDT by Mike_Mills]
You're correct in one respect, you will not likely be able to turn the knobs on the scope to E=0 and W=0 and shoot a center X on two different rifles.

In another respect, I believe you are not correct. The scope can be shared between two different rifles and you can turn the knobs to the known "zeroes" for that rifle and you will at least shoot a ten. If it was a really good base with good rings and they are properly installed on a good scope and the screws were always torqued to the same values, you should be able to shoot an X, perhaps not a center X but an X (but definitely a ten).

Why do I make this statement, you ask? I always remove my scope after a range session. When I replace it for the next session, it always repeats its zeroes with very little error.
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