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Posted: 1/18/2006 2:07:42 PM EDT
Hello everyone,
I own a DPMS AR-15, flat-top (detatchable carry handle)

Alright so I have been looking at the TA31 Series scopes and have researched some info on all of them. I am looking for a scope where I can use it as a CQB scope as well as a long distance scope. I know of the BAC and how it works. I am wondering if these scopes really do work well for CQB?

Also I know of the three reticles. Which one would be best for CQB/distance shooting combined, or am I just crazy for trying to put two different kind of scopes (CQB/long distnance) into one?
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 4:45:16 PM EDT
I don't think the work as good as an Aimpoint for CQB. The regular TA31 with the donut is probably the best for CQB, while the TA31F is probably the best for precision work. I would go with TA31F of the two, and sacrifice a little CQB ability.

Also maybe look into the Aimpoint 2MOA dot with the 3x magnifier.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:54:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 5:54:45 PM EDT by npd233]

Originally Posted By kbobby12:
Hello everyone,
I own a DPMS AR-15, flat-top (detatchable carry handle)

Alright so I have been looking at the TA31 Series scopes and have researched some info on all of them. I am looking for a scope where I can use it as a CQB scope as well as a long distance scope. I know of the BAC and how it works. I am wondering if these scopes really do work well for CQB?

Also I know of the three reticles. Which one would be best for CQB/distance shooting combined, or am I just crazy for trying to put two different kind of scopes (CQB/long distnance) into one?



Yes they do work well for CQB. It is exactly what you're looking for if you want a long distance scope also. As for which model... The basic red circle reticled TA31 is my preference.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:08:24 PM EDT
You should take a view minutes and look into the Trijicon Accupoint TR-21R if you have not already done so. It's got variable zoom (1.25X - 4X), loooooong eye relief (4.8 - 3.4") and the usual fiber optic + tritium illumination set-up for BAC. It may not be considered as popular as a TA-31 (I've got one of those on another rifle) but it's a lot more flexible and addresses some of the issues that some folks have with using ACOGs up close. This optic is gaining a lot of popularity lately and some real HSLD folks are starting to field them now too.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 6:15:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By michealj:
I don't think the work as good as an Aimpoint for CQB. The regular TA31 with the donut is probably the best for CQB, while the TA31F is probably the best for precision work. I would go with TA31F of the two, and sacrifice a little CQB ability.

Also maybe look into the Aimpoint 2MOA dot with the 3x magnifier.



OR

Take a close look at the TA31A...best of both worlds....it won me over anyway. Like MattB says though, don't buy an ACOG until you see the Accupoint. Two different scopes, but both serve their purpose well.
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 9:24:43 PM EDT
Is the TR-21 pretty durable? I've been eyeing them for a long time...way before they started to get the accolades of the HSLD guys. I'm guessing they're fairly durable, since the people at Crane like them, but you never can be sure without asking.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:33:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gimme_A_Carbine:
Is the TR-21 pretty durable? I've been eyeing them for a long time...way before they started to get the accolades of the HSLD guys. I'm guessing they're fairly durable, since the people at Crane like them, but you never can be sure without asking.

I too was concerned about the durability of the Accupoint series until I spoke with a board member who works with soem HSLD guys who are using Accupoints. He stated that he had not heard of any issue with the optic's durability.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:02:18 AM EDT
imo the ta31a is the best of both worlds.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
imo the ta31a is the best of both worlds.


Sing it like you mean it!
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:10:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
imo the ta31a is the best of both worlds.


Sing it like you mean it!
img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/sound-of-music.jpg



For some odd reason I totally forgot about the TA31A. I have had no experience with the triangle, but it does appear to be a great dual purpose optic.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:11:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 6:14:35 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By michealj:

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
imo the ta31a is the best of both worlds.


Sing it like you mean it!
img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/Hokie1850/sound-of-music.jpg



For some odd reason I totally forgot about the TA31A. I have had no experience with the triangle, but it does appear to be a great dual purpose optic.



For 0-300 yards the triangle does a good job of range estimating using the triangle's dimensions against man-sized targets. Past that...the BDC takes over. It's precise enough and the triangle small enough to land very accurate shots to 300m even when your hold over puts the exact POI inside the solid red triangle. At CQB ranges the triangle also has it's advantages ... IMHO even over the donut.

After shooting all three I firmly believe the TA31A is the best general purpose optic out there....with the Accupoint TR21R in a close second.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:33:07 AM EDT
Does anyone here have any real world BTDT experience with the TA21? I am putting my kit together for A'stan and do not want to use the CCO's issued.
I am leaning towards the 31A or the 47-2-R (2x is twice as good as a 1x optic in that AO)
TANKS...
SCOUTS OUT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 10:41:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 10:41:58 AM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By 19-kilo:
Does anyone here have any real world BTDT experience with the TA21? I am putting my kit together for A'stan and do not want to use the CCO's issued.
I am leaning towards the 31A or the 47-2-R (2x is twice as good as a 1x optic in that AO)
TANKS...
SCOUTS OUT



I don't know if you're going to find much real world experience with the TR21 series. Only because there's not a lot out there, outside of practice drills, courses, that type of thing. That said I hope I'm wrong and somebody chimes in to share their stories. I'm certainly no expert on optics but I'd humbly suggest...since you're going on extended deployment, that you stick to something that's combat proven, like an ACOG, Aimpoint, or EoTech.

Stay safe.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:15:58 PM EDT
Aiming TA31A: should 0-300M POI/zero be the triangle tip or should the triangle cover the POI?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:30:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James16688:
Aiming TA31A: should 0-300M POI/zero be the triangle tip or should the triangle cover the POI?

Zero the tip at 100 yds. This will give you middle of the triangle at 200 yds and the bottom of the triangle at 300 yds. Your mount height (carry handle or flat top), barrel length and ammo weight will skew this a bit. There should still be a "ACOG BDC" thread tacked at the top of the forum for more detail information on this.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:38:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 12:40:38 PM EDT by Matt_B]

Originally Posted By 19-kilo:
I am leaning towards the 31A or the 47-2-R (2x is twice as good as a 1x optic in that AO)

I think in almost any AO, 2x is better than 1x. Even for us civies who prepare for "unauthorized shopper" control in urban areas, we will need to be able to properly ID a target before we shoot. I leave in a small midwestern city and even through we have built up areas, there are a lot of straight streets that are 300 yds or longer. I would need to be sure exactly who I would be sending a "pain-o-gram" to before I did so.

19-kilo, I sent you an IM with the name of someone to speak with regarding optic selection for your kit.

Hokie, I bought the Accupoint because I checked with a board member who has uses or has worked with operators who use the Accupoint in the field. He stated that he has neither seen nor heard of any durability issues. I would not have bought one if I had not obtained confirmation the Accupoint's field worthiness.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 4:45:12 PM EDT
Hey Hokie, I'm sure you've done it before but would you be so kind as to post a few pics of your rig so we can see the TA31A on it!!! That would be wonderful. Thank you for the recommendation. I don't have the money now but it may give me something to shoot for. I thought I wanted a red dot but after looking through one I think I want some magnification.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:14:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:18:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 5:19:46 PM EDT by Hokie]
I'd love nothing more than to post a photo, but my midlenth upper is currently sitting in Denny's Shop getting re-outfitted with a GTS Midlength Recon barrel There's lots of ACOG - fitted AR's in the picture threads though. Keep in mind though, as MattB stated above - the TR21R is more than likely rugged enough for us practicing civies, hobbyists, or paranoid disciplies of prepardness. I think the TR21 is a fantastic scope. I like the ACOG though for it's size, bombproof construction, glass quality, & Bullet Drop Compensator. I rarely shoot beyond 200 yards, but it's nice to know it's there. I have a couple CQB AR's that are set up with red dots.

If I could only have ONE AR15, it'd most likely have a TR21R, cause it's so damn versatile. Still, I think the TA31A is the best general purpose optic on the market. YMMV. With iron sights at your disposal....bucking the ACOG off the gun if I'm running CQB drills is also an option, though I'm more likely to leave it on.

The rest of the my TA31A-esque AR15 though:

DD 12.0 w/ Magpul Ladders
Phantom 5C2
Troy Industries Front and Rear BUIS
Larue ACOG Mount (thanks to CS Gunworks)& TA31A
Stag Upper / Lower
Geissele Trigger (on order)
KNS Pins
Magpul M93B, Heavy Buffer & Strike Plate
Magpul MIAD Grip
Surefire M962C in a Larue Mount
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 5:47:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
I'd love nothing more than to post a photo, but my midlenth upper is currently sitting in Denny's Shop getting re-outfitted with a GTS Midlength Recon barrel There's lots of ACOG - fitted AR's in the picture threads though. Keep in mind though, as MattB stated above - the TR21R is more than likely rugged enough for us practicing civies, hobbyists, or paranoid disciplies of prepardness. I think the TR21 is a fantastic scope. I like the ACOG though for it's size, bombproof construction, glass quality, & Bullet Drop Compensator. I rarely shoot beyond 200 yards, but it's nice to know it's there. I have a couple CQB AR's that are set up with red dots.

If I could only have ONE AR15, it'd most likely have a TR21R, cause it's so damn versatile. Still, I think the TA31A is the best general purpose optic on the market. YMMV. With iron sights at your disposal....bucking the ACOG off the gun if I'm running CQB drills is also an option, though I'm more likely to leave it on.

The rest of the my TA31A-esque AR15 though:

DD 12.0 w/ Magpul Ladders
Phantom 5C2
Troy Industries Front and Rear BUIS
Larue ACOG Mount (thanks to CS Gunworks)& TA31A
Stag Upper / Lower
Geissele Trigger (on order)
KNS Pins
Magpul M93B, Heavy Buffer & Strike Plate
Magpul MIAD Grip
Surefire M962C in a Larue Mount



Yeah, but that trigger isn't going to hold up to combat conditions. Just kidding. Please post pics when you get it back. Thanks for the response.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:48:56 PM EDT
There are literally thousands of words written on this topic in the archives... of course if you would rather not spend the $20 to learn about it before you spend $900+ then that is your business. Having answered these questions since 2002 or so, all I can say is that ACOGs can be used fine for CQB and they will usually do better than irons but are rarely faster than reflex type sights (EOtech, Aimpoint) at close ranges <50yds.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:00:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
There are literally thousands of words written on this topic in the archives... of course if you would rather not spend the $20 to learn about it before you spend $900+ then that is your business. Having answered these questions since 2002 or so, all I can say is that ACOGs can be used fine for CQB and they will usually do better than irons but are rarely faster than reflex type sights (EOtech, Aimpoint) at close ranges <50yds.



Yep, yep, and yep.

It's all good though, you don't have to be a team member to participate on this site, but there is a huge volume of information available if you did join.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:45:36 PM EDT
Hey, thanks for the information. That is a great setup you have in the pic. What quad rail system is that?
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