Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/16/2006 8:10:37 AM EDT
I was wondering if the Accupoint's reticule was etched? In other words, when the shooter is in a darkened room and looking out side, is the reticule still visible but instead of being bright red or yellow, it is gray or black? I have a TA31 that works in the manner described and want to know if the Accupoint functions in the same fashion under similar conditions.

Thank you.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:47:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:48:23 AM EDT by BWhalen]
From what I understand, the Accupoint reticle is actually the fiber optic line that runs from the occular bell, up into the scope, is folded and cut at a 45 degree angle to expose the inner part of the line, and then run back down the the reticle. That's why Accupoints have the two heavy black lines running up to the point. So, no, it's not an etched reticle like the ACOG series. But, it does black out when there is not enough light, so it looks like a black point.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 11:57:05 AM EDT
Funny... judging from your last two threads, you and I must be doing the same build

My TR21r should be here this week, and I hope to order that PRi tube when funds permit.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:16:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Funny... judging from your last two threads, you and I must be doing the same build

My TR21r should be here this week, and I hope to order that PRi tube when funds permit.

Actually, I'm working on (2) different ARs. The rifle I'm looking at a PRI for is wearing a TA-31, at least for now. The TR-21 might replace/supplement an Aimpoint with magnifier. I'm researching all my options right now.

BWhalen, thanks for the reply. You do own an Accupoint, correct?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:27:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:30:20 PM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
I was wondering if the Accupoint's reticule was etched? In other words, when the shooter is in a darkened room and looking out side, is the reticule still visible but instead of being bright red or yellow, it is gray or black? I have a TA31 that works in the manner described and want to know if the Accupoint functions in the same fashion under similar conditions.

Thank you.



It is not an etched reticle. It's basically how BWhalen described.

However, it may not be totally black when in a darkened room looking into a more well lit area. The tritium will still illuminate it depending on the conditions. If the well lit area you are looking into is bright enough it will be black, but if it's only slightly more well lit and you are in total black you will see the tritium illuminating it.

I took two pictures of my TR21R.

This first one shows it with the fiber optics illuminating the reticle. If I were to close the "shutter" on the fiber optics it would be totally black in this situation.



This next one shows what it looks like in a totally darkened room, looking into a slightly more well lit room. If you were looking into a brightly lit area from total darkness I'd imagine that the reticle would be black as the tritium glow wouldn't be bright enough to notice against the bright background.



Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:32:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NewbHunter:

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
I was wondering if the Accupoint's reticule was etched? In other words, when the shooter is in a darkened room and looking out side, is the reticule still visible but instead of being bright red or yellow, it is gray or black? I have a TA31 that works in the manner described and want to know if the Accupoint functions in the same fashion under similar conditions.

Thank you.



It is not an etched reticle. It's basically how BWhalen described.

However, it may not be totally black when in a darkened room looking into a more well lit area. The tritium will still illuminate it depending on the conditions. If the well lit area you are looking into is bright enough it will be black, but if it's only slightly more well lit and you are in total black you will see the tritium illuminating it.

I took two pictures of my TR21R.

This first one shows it with the fiber optics illuminating the reticle. If I were to close the "shutter" on the fiber optics it would be totally black in this situation.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/samjham/DSCN9419.jpg

This next one shows what it looks like in a totally darkened room, looking into a slightly more well lit room. If you were looking into a brightly lit area from total darkness I'd imagine that the reticle would be black as the tritium glow wouldn't be bright enough to notice against the bright background.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/samjham/DSCN9420.jpg

Hope this helps.



Great post followed by a great addition.

I'll second the ambient light influence on the reticule. In daylight the blocked out fiberoptics show the operator a black triangle atop the black towers. Do the same in a dark room and once your eyes adjust, you'll notice the tritium.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:32:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:39:59 PM EDT by Matt_B]
Thank you for reposting those pics NewbHunter. I recall seeing those in another thread.

I can get my ACOG (it's about 2.5-3 yrs old) to black out under some conditions, especially when using a Surefire light. I don't mind the darkened reticule as long as I can see the point.

BTW, those pics were shot with the Accupoint at 1.25X mag, correct?

Hokie, heck I remember asking you a question about this optic over a year ago! I need to get off my butt and just get one already. I'm just so tight a$$ed with my money sometimes. The rifle I'm looking at this for has Aimpoint and magnifier right now but I'm starting to grow less fond of it. I've looked into getting a Samson flip mount for the magnifier but it seems like I would just end up with an overly complicated set-up.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:35:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Thank you for reposting those pics NewbHunter. I recall seeing those in another thread.

I can get my ACOG (it's about 2.5-3 yrs old) to black out under some conditions, especially when using a Surefire light. I don't mind the darkened reticule as long as I can see the point.



All about contrast, in some cases that blackened reticule is preferrable.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:47:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:48:14 PM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Thank you for reposting those pics NewbHunter. I recall seeing those in another thread.

I can get my ACOG (it's about 2.5-3 yrs old) to black out under some conditions, especially when using a Surefire light. I don't mind the darkened reticule as long as I can see the point.

BTW, those pics were shot with the Accupoint at 1.25X mag, correct?

Hokie, heck I remember asking you a question about this optic over a year ago! I need to get off my butt and just get one already. I'm just so tight a$$ed with my money sometimes. The rifle I'm looking at this for has Aimpoint and magnifier right now but I'm starting to grow less fond of it. I've looked into getting a Samson flip mount for the magnifier but it seems like I would just end up with an overly complicated set-up.



Yes, that was at 1.25x.

I don't know where in IL you are, but if you ever come up to WI for a Defensive Edge shoot or a Driftless club shoot you can try mine out. Check the WI hometown forum if you're interested.

We'll be doing a shoot at Yellowstone range, which is pretty close to the IL border, in February also.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 12:54:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 12:55:35 PM EDT by Hokie]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Thank you for reposting those pics NewbHunter. I recall seeing those in another thread.

I can get my ACOG (it's about 2.5-3 yrs old) to black out under some conditions, especially when using a Surefire light. I don't mind the darkened reticule as long as I can see the point.

BTW, those pics were shot with the Accupoint at 1.25X mag, correct?

Hokie, heck I remember asking you a question about this optic over a year ago! I need to get off my butt and just get one already. I'm just so tight a$$ed with my money sometimes. The rifle I'm looking at this for has Aimpoint and magnifier right now but I'm starting to grow less fond of it. I've looked into getting a Samson flip mount for the magnifier but it seems like I would just end up with an overly complicated set-up.



That TR21 package is a sweet set up. If I didn't have a few other AR's set up for CQB drills & courses I'd be putting an low power Accupoint on my AR. I use a TA31A now and love it on my midlength. That 1-4 spread on the TR21 is nice though. I actually run my 3X9 Accupoint with the fiber optics closed most of the time, especially when I'm trying to pinpoint the top of the triangle. Sometimes it gets so bright it turns into a 'blur.' Since I have my 3X9 on my deer rifle, the only time I ever use the fiber optic option is when I'm walking or stalking. If I'm in a deer stand or sitting somewhere, I turn it off.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 1:01:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 1:01:53 PM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Hokie:

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Thank you for reposting those pics NewbHunter. I recall seeing those in another thread.

I can get my ACOG (it's about 2.5-3 yrs old) to black out under some conditions, especially when using a Surefire light. I don't mind the darkened reticule as long as I can see the point.

BTW, those pics were shot with the Accupoint at 1.25X mag, correct?

Hokie, heck I remember asking you a question about this optic over a year ago! I need to get off my butt and just get one already. I'm just so tight a$$ed with my money sometimes. The rifle I'm looking at this for has Aimpoint and magnifier right now but I'm starting to grow less fond of it. I've looked into getting a Samson flip mount for the magnifier but it seems like I would just end up with an overly complicated set-up.



That TR21 package is a sweet set up. If I didn't have a few other AR's set up for CQB drills & courses I'd be putting an low power Accupoint on my AR. I use a TA31A now and love it on my midlength. That 1-4 spread on the TR21 is nice though. I actually run my 3X9 Accupoint with the fiber optics closed most of the time, especially when I'm trying to pinpoint the top of the triangle. Sometimes it gets so bright it turns into a 'blur.' Since I have my 3X9 on my deer rifle, the only time I ever use the fiber optic option is when I'm walking or stalking. If I'm in a deer stand or sitting somewhere, I turn it off.




I'll agree with that. Any kind of distance shooting, I usually close the shutter because there is a slight blur and it's harder to make out the pin point of the triangle. That is unless my target is really dark. For CQB I turn it on as the slight blur is meaningless. It's not as bad as my pics show, I think that was more my camera, but the blur is there a little bit.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:50:42 PM EDT
Thank you for the offer NewbHunter. If I'm ever up that way before I get an Accupoint, I'll be sure to look you up.

I know it's a good optic. At this point, I just need to think some more on which way to go - with the Aimpoint and magnifier or Accupoint. If I had one more AR that I could set up just for CQB, I wouldn't even have to think about it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:59:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Thank you for the offer NewbHunter. If I'm ever up that way before I get an Accupoint, I'll be sure to look you up.

I know it's a good optic. At this point, I just need to think some more on which way to go - with the Aimpoint and magnifier or Accupoint. If I had one more AR that I could set up just for CQB, I wouldn't even have to think about it.



And therein lies your answer Matt
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:22:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:23:10 PM EDT by Matt_B]
Ha! I saw that coming a mile away. Assuming I decide to get the Accupoint, I imagine things going down like this:

- Get the Accupoint.
- Sell the Aimpoint magnifier because I don't need it.
- Get a 14.5" upper to use on one of my exisiting lowers.
- I get sick of swapping uppers and realize yet again that complete rifles are always better.
- Get a lower with a Magpul CTR stock (because I'll have to try one you know).

6 months later, I have yet another AR. I've been down that road before my friend. I drive it with my eyes closed. A classic example of EBRD relapse.

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:27:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:27:53 PM EDT by Hokie]
lol...

admitting you have a problem is the first step to rehabilitation. Fortunately, BRD Rule#231 states the addict is allowed a half dozen relapses before issued a frontal lobotomy - the only known cure outside of being banned.

Hey at least you have your map of financial self destruction laid out!

So will you be getting the red or amber reticule?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:31:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
So will you be getting the red or amber reticule?

That's a good question. While I naturally gravitate towards a red reticule, my research here has indicated that yellow is better for low light use due to the fact that the yellow reticule is inherently brighter than the red version.

I'm not worried about the color of the reticule in daylight. I know either color will be bright enough. It's the low light I worry about. Now it's not like I do much if any night time shooting but ya never know.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:16:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:18:11 PM EDT by Hokie]
For that reason I'd suggest you go with the red. I have an amber on my 3X9 and love it, but then again it's my deer rifle (Browning A-Bolt 270) and the amber contrasts superbly with my terrain. In fact the last color reticule I'd want would be red. But if I had to add the shooting venues often envisioned with the almighty AR15, I think the red would serve you better. Keep in mind with the Accupoint you also get those two black towers that make for a great reference when snap shooting or employing the BAC concept. Anyway, as you already know, it's all about contrast and recognition of the triangle as you look past the scope to your target. You can't go wrong with either!

The last two deer I shot were taken solely because the BAC concept - I'd have missed them otherwise and my freezer would be empty....thanks to Trijicon, it ain't!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:01:07 PM EDT
OT sorry, but could somebody post a pic of what a reticle looks like in complete darkness, mine seems really dull, but I'd like to compare....
Thanks
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 4:58:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
OT sorry, but could somebody post a pic of what a reticle looks like in complete darkness, mine seems really dull, but I'd like to compare....
Thanks



The darker picture I posted above is with my Accupoint in near complete darkness and the shutter closed, so what you see is the tritium illuminating.

I seem to remember another thread a while ago where someone had a really dull reticle and they sent it in to Trijicon. I turned out it was defective and they fixed it for them. From what I've heard Trijicon has very good service, so your best bet is probably just to give them a call.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:13:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:18:30 AM EDT by Matt_B]
Alright, I pulled the trigger and just placed an order with G&R Tactical for a TR-21R with a Larue SPR-EER mount. Now I'll have to dig up the box for the Aimpoint magnifier and stick it on the EE along with the Larue M68 CCO mount for it.

Thank you again for all the input. It helped to finally push me over the edge and buy the thing. To be more specific, NewbHunter's pics, which I have seen before, really drove home how the scope will work at 1.25X. In those images, the magnification is barely noticeable. I kind of knew this but as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:16:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Alright, I pulled the trigger and just placed an order with G&R Tactical for a TR-21R with a Larue SPR-EER mount. Now I'll have to dig up the box for the Aimpoint magnifier and stick it on the EE along with the Larue M68 CCO mount for it.

Thank you again for all the input. I helped to finally push me over the edge and buy the thing. To be more specific, NewbHunter's pics, which I have seen before, really drove home how the scope will work at 1.25X. In those images, the magnification is barely noticeable. I kind of knew this but as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words.



lol...good....for a minute there I thought I was gonna take the heat for your purchase.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:25:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 10:25:58 AM EDT by NewbHunter]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
Alright, I pulled the trigger and just placed an order with G&R Tactical for a TR-21R with a Larue SPR-EER mount. Now I'll have to dig up the box for the Aimpoint magnifier and stick it on the EE along with the Larue M68 CCO mount for it.

Thank you again for all the input. It helped to finally push me over the edge and buy the thing. To be more specific, NewbHunter's pics, which I have seen before, really drove home how the scope will work at 1.25X. In those images, the magnification is barely noticeable. I kind of knew this but as they say, a picture is worth 1000 words.



Glad my pictures were able to help you out. One thing I will tell you about the magnification is that it is more noticable at closer distances. Under 10 feet I seem to notice it more, but beyond that I don't seem to notice it much at all.

However, even though it is more noticable under 10 feet, when I use BAC it really doesn't seem to be an issue to me.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 10:31:11 AM EDT
Hokie, no worries. I take no heat for the money I spend. My money is my own.


Originally Posted By NewbHunter:
Glad my pictures were able to help you out. One thing I will tell you about the magnification is that it is more noticable at closer distances. Under 10 feet I seem to notice it more, but beyond that I don't seem to notice it much at all.

However, even though it is more noticable under 10 feet, when I use BAC it really doesn't seem to be an issue to me.

I hear ya Newb. I normally don't shoot the AR (16" middie) that this is going at distances of less than 25 yds anyway. It's all relative to the distance of the target. It will also be nice to get another BAC optic in addition to my TA31.

I have a feeling if I really like the TR-21R, I will be getting a TR-20R for my 20" AR and a TR-22R for my Remington bolt action .308. The concept of the TR series is very sound.

Link Posted: 1/17/2006 1:14:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/17/2006 1:15:29 PM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
I was wondering if the Accupoint's reticule was etched? In other words, when the shooter is in a darkened room and looking out side, is the reticule still visible but instead of being bright red or yellow, it is gray or black? I have a TA31 that works in the manner described and want to know if the Accupoint functions in the same fashion under similar conditions.

Thank you.



Matt if it helps my leupold 1-4X20 does the same thing you describe, but as far as I know the retical is not etched. My IOR will do the same thing, it is etched......

ETA: just saying I think Etched or not it's going to do that.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 3:48:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:
Matt if it helps my leupold 1-4X20 does the same thing you describe, but as far as I know the retical is not etched. My IOR will do the same thing, it is etched......

ETA: just saying I think Etched or not it's going to do that.

Thank you for the reply Photoman. I am admittedly not that deeply versed in the intricacies of magnified optics. I was hoping that the Accupoint's reticule would still be visible if the enviroment was overbright and my hopes were fulfilled.

Hopefully, I should have my TR-21R by the end of the week.
Top Top