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Posted: 1/10/2006 11:59:03 AM EDT
I just got off the phone with EO tech and they said:

The 600meter magnified EO tech is under re-design-- back in prototype classification, meaning it will not be finallized and released until mid summer or even as late as December 2006.

The customer service rep mentioned that the 553 will be released in March with a std 65MOA reticle.

HOWEVER
If we could get 250 EO tech 553 sites ordered, they can do any reticle we want, and that means :

The 600meter dot reticle with 65 MOA ring they currently have already developed would be availible to be run and shipped IMMEDIATELY in March to coincide with the release date of the 553

I can tell you with 65MOA/600yd/meter reticle you have my pre-paid order locked, I want an EO tech I can use with night vision and a Samson/Aimpoint quick flip for work at ranges from 100-600meters. I think a AR15.com group buy is in order to lock these down before we have to wait till mid summer or December 06. We have to have a dealer to conduct such an order and I guess it might as well be C4Igrant


Found these on the net I think this is a 553 but I doubt the finish is std.






The rep was telling me that there is a way to range with the 65MOA ring and 600meter combo but it isn't the greatest. Supposedly a 6foot tall man stands center of the reticle- dot to ring at 200yds, center to two thirds at 300, center to half way at 400 etc-- the dot is supposed to be the size of a human head at 400 as well. That is a method but not much of one since you are far more likely to see shoulders than a full silouette; but the advantage with that reticle is time to the order.


Custom reticles are a possibility and they could do an NSN reticle, however the reason the engineering team went with the 100,400,500, and 600 dot reticle is because the dots are actually 1/3MOA etched into the glass and the human eye sees them as 1MOA. Any line or dot would be visible to the human eye and the dots are not distracting in use whereas a horizontal stadia would be distracting. Now that that makes sense to me I see the four dot reticle as the way to go with this magnified/non magnified concept.

The sight is holographic and there is a potential for a design that would display a range scale upon looking slightly sideways through the sight, however this has no application under single-plane magnification and thus is useless for it.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 12:03:59 PM EDT by HardShell]
Depending upon price and details (of course), I'd be very interested...
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:05:32 PM EDT
Price should be the std pricing for the 553. With a dealer we should get the normal slightly lower AR15.com price
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:11:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 2:55:12 PM EDT by 9divdoc]
Tag'O'rooney
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:13:34 PM EDT
Interesting.
Tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:34:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 12:34:45 PM EDT by jmart]

Originally Posted By Green0:

I can tell you with 65MOA/600yd/meter reticle you have my pre-paid order locked, I want an EO tech I can use with night vision and a Samson/Aimpoint quick flip for work at ranges from 100-600meters. I think a AR15.com group buy is in order to lock these down before we have to wait till mid summer or December 06. We have to have a dealer to conduct such an order and I guess it might as well be C4Igrant





Not knocking the Samson/Aimpoint combo, but I believe 553s are designed to interface with EoTech's magnifier once it becomes available. Unless you really need the magnifier capability right away, I'd maybe hang loose for a bit and see how EoTech's shakes out. Also, with the 553 being taller, will the Samson mount + Aimpoint line up correctly? Is Samson coming out with a taller mount?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 1:33:18 PM EDT by Green0]
Yeah the EO tech 557 is designed to be compatible with a magnifier.

The only problem is that at this point that is a 4x magnifier with no flip capability. It is currently a fixed mounted 4x magnifier.

So you can hold out for later and get one with a possible 4x magnifier that doesn't flip and is not sold without the magnifier, or you can hop on an order and get one without a magnifier and get an Aimpoint 3x/samson flip mount combo for it.

In other words, if EO tech doesn't do the flip mount you will be buying their magnified sight system for around $900-$1000 PLUS an Aimpoint 3x/Samson flip combo. The purpose of the group buy would be to get what we want [a 553 with the non-std reticle], without what we don't want [a 4x magnifier that doesn't flip] now instead of later. It's kind of a win win win situation.

I'll call Samson tomorrow and see if they can make a custom spacer for their quick flip to accomodate a change in sight height should it be an issue. Otherwise, does anyone know the compatibility of the quickflip with STD EO techs? Running the reticle in a std AA EO is also an option
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:58:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:06:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:12:54 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:25:01 PM EDT
depending on income tax check I'm in
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 5:42:21 PM EDT
I am in for 1! FMJs
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:08:24 PM EDT
how is this reticle/aimpoint diferent from the current ones? it has a 65 MOA ring with a 1 moa dot right?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:08:29 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:32:18 PM EDT
Interested. Come up with a price and I may join in on the group buy.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:37:35 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:31:07 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:44:49 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 7:51:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:08:14 PM EDT
depends on price. i may be in on this one also.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:37:35 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:41:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 8:50:21 PM EDT by James16688]
which BUIS would co-witness best with the 553?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:09:26 PM EDT
I have to call EO-tech about the cowitness.

The reticle is simply a std 65MOA retical for 0-300meter work and three extra dots to compensate for drop at 400, 500 and 600yds. <from what the EO tech employee stated it sounded like yards. I could check on that.

Basically the 3X magnifier is only going to help by adding target ID at 200-300 and up to about 400yds where the reticle will actually extend effective range by allowing holds to be used for longer range shots.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 9:23:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:24:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:42:36 AM EDT
Let me spell out exactly what was explained in this coversation. It seems there's a little excitement involved in the explanation...

The limits of holography are endless in the possiblities of reticle types. We can do anything (this doesn't mean we will).

I indicated to the customer on the phone that, "in order to start the negotiation process," on something like this (this being a deviation from our normally produced products; i.e. the 553 with the M4 BDC reticle), it would take an order of something like, "250 to 300 sights." This is just to start the talking process. We could meet the request, but this, as was explained, is a very involved process.

There is also an R&D and development process. There is no time frame on when the delivery could or would be. This is something that would have to be discussed with sales.

Finally, I never said anything about sights being able to ship in March. I said that's when we're shipping the 553. The customer asked if the process would be faster if the order consisted of a reticle that was already developed, which it would, but nothing was ever said about being able to ship new stuff with sights going out in March. I'm not sure where that comment came from.

Please, by all means, pool for an order and we will do our best to meet your needs. But as was explained on the phone, it is not as simple as flipping a switch. There is an entire sales, engineering, and optical process that accompanies things like this. It would take the reality of a large order to make it cost effective to begin this process of a change.

What is good about discussions like these, is that it helps make the manufacturer aware of things the marketplace is looking for. Keep it up!

-DF
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 8:11:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 8:20:48 AM EDT by Green0]
Then you miscommunicated.

On the phone it was a clear- get 250 orders and we'll run them with the four dot 600yd/65MOA reticle without delay. You didn't mention that would just be the start of negotiation to do it.

Your not going to get concrete orders with customers locking down money for a "possible" product.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:54:28 AM EDT
Not to mention, if you want orders it would be nice to actually see the reticle. Spending that kind of money in my book requires at least a "prototype" look see.

SCOUTS OUT
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:49:11 AM EDT
The reticle is pretty simple A std 65moa ring with four one moa dots instead of one the three below the std dot are for 400, 500, and 600yds with M855 ammo from [I'm guessing here] the std 25meter/300meter zero.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 4:28:39 PM EDT
Will the 553 fit on the upper receiver only and have enuogh room for a BUIS?
I noticed the front is mounted on the Troy MRF.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:03:10 PM EDT
I don't understand why the dot sizes would be different considering a 4MOA dot would likely cover a the other three for range so how would you know you just didn't cover with the wrong dot- sure you could measure each one down but that would be slow. Fast would be four stadia lines of set measurement at those distances, not dots. Basically an ACOG style in a 1x heads up display. I'll waite till late 06' to see what is coming down the pike, so far it sounds like the dots are now realizing that BDC does matter, range finding does matter, and can do so on the same 1x platform. This is only the first of what is to come and about damn time.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:28:42 PM EDT
I allready covered that- apparently the smallest line that can be engraved is 1/3MOA which appears to the human eye as one MOA-- a bunch of one MOA lines would look like a big blob in the reticle at 1X

It would be great if the lines could be invisible at 1power or nearly invisible and then clear at 3X but that doesn't happen.


The dots are all one MOA-- they always have been as far as I know with EO techs.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:37:52 PM EDT
maybe the dealers can offer a package price with either a GG&G or LaRue mount... I be in for one if the price is comparable to exsisting models. Can they offer it two tone, black and OD
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:43:38 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:55:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 6:56:00 PM EDT by Yojimbo]
The reticle GreenO is talking about can be seen at the bottom left on the pic below.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:28:11 AM EDT
Depending on price, I'm in....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:59:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Get 200 buyers and I will cover the other 50.

C4

www.GRTactical.com



same here...





Two offers to deal, no prices offered yet. Wonder what the ballpark number will be

Orders might have to be paid for previous to EOtech making the scopes up, in order to prove to them that the orders are legitimate. This could tie up the buyers' money for quite some time while waiting for the optics to be manufactured and shipped out. I wouldn't mind waiting for it, knowing that it's on the way, but I guarantee there will be someone who orders one that will change their mind and want out, and rant and rave about how he's getting screwed over and not allowed to get a refund, and will call his credit card company and demand a charge-back, etc... It's probably a good idea for part of the purchase agreement to include a disclaimer that the buyer knows that the order is subject to a timely wait for production time and that no refunds are available whatsoever, unless the order is cancelled by the Manufacturer.

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:16:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By npd233:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Get 200 buyers and I will cover the other 50.

C4

www.GRTactical.com



same here...





Two offers to deal, no prices offered yet. Wonder what the ballpark number will be

Orders might have to be paid for previous to EOtech making the scopes up, in order to prove to them that the orders are legitimate. This could tie up the buyers' money for quite some time while waiting for the optics to be manufactured and shipped out. I wouldn't mind waiting for it, knowing that it's on the way, but I guarantee there will be someone who orders one that will change their mind and want out, and rant and rave about how he's getting screwed over and not allowed to get a refund, and will call his credit card company and demand a charge-back, etc... It's probably a good idea for part of the purchase agreement to include a disclaimer that the buyer knows that the order is subject to a timely wait for production time and that no refunds are available whatsoever, unless the order is cancelled by the Manufacturer.




Surely no one here would rant
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:20:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hayseed_40:


Surely no one here would rant



It's only a prediction. I would love to be proven wrong, and if this happens and nobody bitches about the wait, I will gladly run another membership contest. I haven't done one this year, yet.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 7:39:07 AM EDT


Then you miscommunicated.

On the phone it was a clear- get 250 orders and we'll run them with the four dot 600yd/65MOA reticle without delay. You didn't mention that would just be the start of negotiation to do it.

Your not going to get concrete orders with customers locking down money for a "possible" product.




I did not miscommunicate anything.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 9:16:45 AM EDT
I'm sorry you clearly said 250 orders would equal a production run.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 12:11:30 PM EDT
When will the LaRue replacement mount for the 553 be available?
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:38:09 PM EDT
I don't get it, Why would anyone want a reticle like that. Now you have 4 dots that make the reticle "Busy at CQB ranges I see that reticle as being to cluttered.

Oh , and nice job getting in a pissing contest with the guy your trying to do a group buy with.....
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:12:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:24:54 PM EDT
tag for price and pissing contest



Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:31:30 PM EDT
tag for price and further developments
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:42:03 PM EDT
tag 'cause I'm an EOWhore
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By STG77:
When will the LaRue replacement mount for the 553 be available?



Maybe never.


C4





I hate to be negative but I have to agree with Grant. If you look at the pictures on page 1 you can see that the mount is basically part of the sights base. It doesn't look like something you can change out without replacing the actual sight housing.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:00:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2006 5:02:42 PM EDT by Boom]
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:59:40 PM EDT

Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:09:06 PM EDT
I want it!
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