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Posted: 1/9/2006 5:05:24 PM EDT
Hello, I have read a lot about Aimpoints and Eotechs and Trijicons and people talk about them all being standard issue for the US Military. Trijicon.com states that their ACOG was not developed with government funding. I was wondering what branch is issued which brand and has anyone thought about trying to find used one at a surplus store? Thanks!

Chris
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:08:06 PM EDT
They all are. Different commands use their funding for different purchases. I've seen lots of pics of ACOGS in the sandbox, A visit to an airshow will turn up lots of Aimpoints and Eotechs. But none are really branch specific, NTM a lot of troopers purchase their own.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:12:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 5:13:32 PM EDT by DvlDog]
they will certainly never hit the surplus market. not in the next 10years anyway. i can only speak from the USMC point of view but i have seen issued:

ACOG (TA01 and TA31)
Aimpoint M68
trijicon reflex
US optics (SN-3 i think)
Unertl (shouldnt be on the list because its so rare and unavailable)

since the GWOT a lot of optics have been purchased with unit funds so if you see some guys with an optic in one of lumpys pic threads it might have been something a platoon or a company bought which wouldnt necessarily make it "issue" also a lot of the more savvy guys get their own optics. ive seen a few EOTechs in theatre but so few i assume they were private purchased.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 5:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
they will certainly never hit the surplus market. not in the next 10years anyway. i can only speak from the USMC point of view but i have seen issued:

ACOG (TA01 and TA31)
Aimpoint M68
trijicon reflex
US optics (SN-3 i think)
Unertl (shouldnt be on the list because its so rare and unavailable)

since the GWOT a lot of optics have been purchased with unit funds so if you see some guys with an optic in one of lumpys pic threads it might have been something a platoon or a company bought which wouldnt necessarily make it "issue" also a lot of the more savvy guys get their own optics. ive seen a few EOTechs in theatre but so few i assume they were private purchased.



tell that to the 45 of us who got brand new CompMs, carry handle mounts, kill flashes, QRPs, spacers and extra batteries for $198 shipped a few months back! Sorry, had to brag...
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:03:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
They all are. Different commands use their funding for different purchases. I've seen lots of pics of ACOGS in the sandbox, A visit to an airshow will turn up lots of Aimpoints and Eotechs. But none are really branch specific, NTM a lot of troopers purchase their own.



Personally, I’ve never seen an Aimpoint or EOTech at an airshow.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:07:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:

tell that to the 45 of us who got brand new CompMs, carry handle mounts, kill flashes, QRPs, spacers and extra batteries for $198 shipped a few months back! Sorry, had to brag...



Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:46:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies guys. Can anyone now tell me what Aimpoint changed about the regular comp model to be able to make it meet milspecs? I tried looking at their website but they just said it was a "ruggedized" version. Their sight also says that comps were intended for pistols and practical shooting matches. With that in mind, how do they work with an AR? I want to be able to smoke a coyote from 100-200 yards very quickly. Its more fun if they are far away or running or something. h
Thanks for your help!

Chris
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:02:23 PM EDT
The older Comp M has a 3MOA dot.

Should be good on Yotes, that's what I'm using mine for

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:21:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 9:23:47 PM EDT by DvlDog]

Originally Posted By JosephR:


tell that to the 45 of us who got brand new CompMs, carry handle mounts, kill flashes, QRPs, spacers and extra batteries for $198 shipped a few months back! Sorry, had to brag...



whats your point? he asked when they would hit the surplus market. you state that you bought brand new items. jumping in on a group buy doesnt equal surplus. almost all of my accessories are private purchase at gov't prices. most recently a pair of Oakley desert assault boots for $85 and a pair of military M-Frames with 2 lenses for $65 and a gross of C123's at .49c each but i didnt mention it because A.) it doesnt apply here and B)bragging is gay
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:04:22 PM EDT
If Marines aren't using Eo's that makes them Army branch specific because they are widely issued by the Army.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 11:47:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 11:49:18 PM EDT by DvlDog]
define "widely issued". i dont consider an item purchased at the unit level to be "widely issued" when an item has official military nomenclature and is backed up by official doctrine, spare parts and training then i consider it issue. for example, the Aimpoint Comp M2 in army-speak is the M-68 Close Combat Optic. it has a -10 (army technical manual) and if you break one or need a battery you can swing by the armory and get one.

to my knowledge the EO does not have a -10 or a military designation. things change all the time and ive been out cutting edge stuff lately but everytime i saw an EOtech on a guys rifle most of the people around him had Aimpoints. and im referring to army guys. our camp was predominately army.

my unit bought enough safariland 6004's for everyone but that doesnt make it a Marine issue item.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:01:57 AM EDT
The EO-TECH is part of the USMC CQB weapons suite, so technically a M4A1 would rate a EO-TECH while a M4 would rate an TA31M4RCO and a A4 a TA31A4RCO. This is addition to aimpoints and MARS bought with go to war COTS funds.
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:22:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:27:59 PM EDT by Manx]

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
define "widely issued". i dont consider an item purchased at the unit level to be "widely issued" when an item has official military nomenclature and is backed up by official doctrine, spare parts and training then i consider it issue. for example, the Aimpoint Comp M2 in army-speak is the M-68 Close Combat Optic. it has a -10 (army technical manual) and if you break one or need a battery you can swing by the armory and get one.

to my knowledge the EO does not have a -10 or a military designation. things change all the time and ive been out cutting edge stuff lately but everytime i saw an EOtech on a guys rifle most of the people around him had Aimpoints. and im referring to army guys. our camp was predominately army.

my unit bought enough safariland 6004's for everyone but that doesnt make it a Marine issue item.



EOTech has received three Marine Corp contracts totalling 6,500 sights. I'm not sure if that constitutes "widely used" or not in the Corp. Most of these went to the 24th MEU.
Together with the U.S. Army and USSOCOM contracts, the total is around 30,000 EOTechs in current active service with the U.S. Military, not including those purchased by individual soldiers, or small unit buys.



Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:23:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:30:35 PM EDT by Manx]
deleted
Link Posted: 1/14/2006 4:28:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/14/2006 4:36:54 PM EDT by Green0]
"define "widely issued". "

The way I see it-- seeing them all over Iraq as std Army issue sights makes them widely issued. Seeing them in std line units is also a good indicator. Units don't just buy whatever they want- they generally have to buy from government approved sources with their government funding.

Army SF or MARSOC would not be widely issued the way I see things.

If you are familiar with rapid fielding initiatives- you would understand that an item no longer needs an NSN to see widespread standard issue use.

That 30,000 means one in 16 soldiers have an EO tech-- and when you consider approx 8 out of ten soldiers are not combat soldiers, and most of the soldiers getting these are combat soldiers, it means about one in four or five combat soldiers are issued one. ACOGs are probably becomming almost one in 3 and aimpoints take up the rest of the slots. I don't know what the people who are non-combat get issued because most of the time their rifles carry the lightest possible load to the chow hall and back/ lowest liability for theft at the MWR/Movie theater/coffee shop- meaning stripped down with iron sights.
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