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Posted: 1/8/2006 9:21:43 PM EDT
Hello guys. I have worn myself out looking for this type of deal, and I am at a loss. I want to find the very best red dot I can find for around 200. I can most likely stretch that to 250 if need be, but not much more.

Is the Bushnell Holosight worth looking at? My AR is not abused, but the optic must be quality, i.e., the Airsoft clones wont cut it. This sight will be on a goosencek mount and an A2 carry handle.

I truly appreciate the help.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 10:05:44 PM EDT
a used eotech or aimpoint in the equipment exchange or save up.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:45:35 AM EDT
You could consider this:



Burris XTS-135 at Midway
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 3:57:45 AM EDT
The Tasco Propoints aren't bad
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:01:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 4:05:26 AM EDT by mini14jac]
I have the same budgetary constraints.

I would avoid the Bushnell.
You can get an Eotech for practically the same money.
I think the Bushnell only gets about 65 hours on a set of batteries.
The small Eotech gets 200.

Check Opticsplanet.com.

There is an Eotech that doesn't have the metal shroud on it, that sells new for $250.
(501 maybe?)
I think OpticsPlanet even offers it with free shipping.

Otherwise, used equipment is your best bet.
I sold an older Eothech for $175 a few weeks ago so deals are out there.

Now, as far as getting a used Aimpoint anywhere near $250, I don't think that's going to happen.
That has been suggested on here several times, but the reality of the Aimpoint market doesn't support it.
I've been watching the EE for a while, and the best deals on used Aimpoints are around $310- 325.

Another option, if you've got a Sportsmans Guide membership, is the Eotech 511.
I just ordered one. With the membership, and a discount coupon, you can get it delivered for $269.

I just received and sent back a Burris XTS Speeddot.
Mine didn't have a round dot.

Lastly, read the thread here on the SPOT.
Seems to be a rugged dot, that comes with a mount, for <$150.
Appears to be the exact same sight as the Burris for about half the price.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:36:54 AM EDT
I just read the entire SPOT test and review, and I must say it looks quite interesting. However, if an Eotech can be be had for ~100 bucks more, that might be the way to go for me.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:38:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:17:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
Hello guys. I have worn myself out looking for this type of deal, and I am at a loss. I want to find the very best red dot I can find for around 200. I can most likely stretch that to 250 if need be, but not much more.

Is the Bushnell Holosight worth looking at? My AR is not abused, but the optic must be quality, i.e., the Airsoft clones wont cut it. This sight will be on a goosencek mount and an A2 carry handle.

I truly appreciate the help.



Whats the gun used for?

If it's not a duty/home/personal defense gun, take a look at the SPOT(it's not a clone of anything) It's ability to take a beating has really impressed me.

Other then that yer options are pretty much try and find a used Aimpoint or EoTech.

I'm an Eotech fan for one simple reason it's easier to clean off the "lens" if you get mud or other crap all over it then it is to do it for a tube type optic. It's one of those things I've learned along the way while beating on optics. Now that said, I have an Aimpoint but only because I got a phat deal on it.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 9:25:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2006 9:25:51 AM EDT by cheaptrickfan]
Why not buy a "famous maker" and use the difference for some more ammo?



Famous Maker Red-Dot Sights

Quality Electronic Red-Dot Sights. Manufactured in China, the Model FM130, is the same sight sold under other Brand labeling for 3-4 times the price.

Specs: 1x Power, 30mm tube, 3 7/8" Length, 12 settings, Matte Black finish.

Price: $24.95
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:00:08 AM EDT
Sarcasmn noted.

The gun is used as a patrol rifle. No hard core raids, but still needs to be quality. I have to buy all of my own gear, as I work for a small department. This is the reason for the low cost requirement. The EOTech keeps looking better and better the more I read about it.

Although, the SPOT doesnt look like a bad choice for my varmint eradicator .22.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 10:23:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
Sarcasmn noted.

The gun is used as a patrol rifle. No hard core raids, but still needs to be quality. I have to buy all of my own gear, as I work for a small department. This is the reason for the low cost requirement. The EOTech keeps looking better and better the more I read about it.

Although, the SPOT doesnt look like a bad choice for my varmint eradicator .22.



Glad I asked then, as much as I wish I could say the SPOT would be fine it has some small issues that keep me from saying that yah it would do you fine. It's definetly rugged and durable enough for that use IMO but there area few things I think they need to address with it. Spesificly battery life and water proofing, and other two settings of intensity on the low end would help too but are not truely nessesary.

It's a good optic though that can take a beating.

In all honesty I'd go with the EoTech. Its a bit cheaper then an Aimpoint and it's just as good with the added benifit that it's easier to get crap off the lens if you get mud or dirt on it. The only draw back again is battery life IIRC the N battery versions will hit the 200 hour mark which isn't good enough IMO but the AA versions should be gtg most of those are rated at 1100hrs. I think any duty type optic needs to have at least 1k of battery life and be waterproof(but I'm also not LE/.mil so take that into consideration as well) Those are the biggest two reasons why I wouldn't sudjest a SPOT for the use you would have for it. It will be great for a plinking/fun/small game gun though.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 1:00:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
a used eotech or aimpoint in the equipment exchange or save up.



+1

This would be the smart move.

Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:00:21 PM EDT
Sportsman's Guide's $269 511 sounds great and if battery life is an actual concern, keep an eye on the EE. Spend some time each day looking for used Eotechs and save while you are waiting. They'll pop up.

Like Photoman, I've got an Aimpoint instead of an Eotech only because of an outrageous deal, definitely not because I like them better.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:30:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Sportsman's Guide's $269 511 sounds great and if battery life is an actual concern, keep an eye on the EE. Spend some time each day looking for used Eotechs and save while you are waiting. They'll pop up.

Like Photoman, I've got an Aimpoint instead of an Eotech only because of an outrageous deal, definitely not because I like them better.



See we agree on something.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:34:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Sportsman's Guide's $269 511 sounds great and if battery life is an actual concern, keep an eye on the EE. Spend some time each day looking for used Eotechs and save while you are waiting. They'll pop up.

Like Photoman, I've got an Aimpoint instead of an Eotech only because of an outrageous deal, definitely not because I like them better.



See we agree on something.



A 511 for $269 should be cheap enough to have you stop recomending airsoft optics.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:39:39 PM EDT
Kobra,
ive got one on my .50 beowulf, works great.
also got one on my CZ .22 lr upper.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 4:51:29 PM EDT
I looked at the Kobras, but info on them is hard to come by. I am sure they are built hell for stout, being Russian.

As it sits now, I am pretty much settlled on an EoTech of some sort. I would prefer a AA variety, due to the fact that the PD buys these batteries, and that I have a drawer full of them for kids toys, but the N battery isnt a kill-deal for me.

I like the CQB/Fine dot combo offered on the EoTech, and the durability is inarguable.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 6:57:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Sportsman's Guide's $269 511 sounds great and if battery life is an actual concern, keep an eye on the EE. Spend some time each day looking for used Eotechs and save while you are waiting. They'll pop up.

Like Photoman, I've got an Aimpoint instead of an Eotech only because of an outrageous deal, definitely not because I like them better.



See we agree on something.



A 511 for $269 should be cheap enough to have you stop recomending airsoft optics.



I never heard him recommend one for anything other than a plinker / hunter / range gun. Regardless of how they stood up to his tests. Why don't you cut the shit.
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 7:54:47 PM EDT
Here's one of the better of the affordable lower priced Red Dot's for $129.00- cut/paste


http://www.shotplus.com/shop/product.php?productid=16157&cat=253&page=1
Link Posted: 1/9/2006 8:13:40 PM EDT
I've never seen him recommend one either- he's just defended their use for specific reasons.

He knows we don't all need to gang up on one another and turn each and every thread into a shitstorm!

Link Posted: 1/10/2006 1:11:01 AM EDT
I've never used one but a friend loves his OKO.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 3:54:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 3:55:39 AM EDT by mini14jac]
I went with the N battery Eotech because it was smaller.
(Though not by much.)

One redeeming factor of the N battery models, is the "auto shut off" feature.
When you turn it on you're either telling it to stay on 4 hours, or 8 hours, depending which switch you use to turn it on.
So, it will turn itself off, if you forget to.
That should help with battery life.

And, it is supposed to start blinking at you, long before it's ready to die.
If you've got some spare batteries stored on your gun, you're good to go in 5 minutes.

(Edited to add: If you are LE, you should be able to get better prices than we are quoting here. Good Luck!)
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:03:37 AM EDT
+1 on that. look at a few of the dealers in the EE. Many of them will be happy to give some sort of LEO discount I'm sure.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:37:55 AM EDT
One thing that Photoman brought up has me curious a bit.

He mentions that with the EOThingy sight it is easier to clean off the lens should/when it gets dirty. That seems reasonable. But what about the LED emitter? On a "tube" scope the emitter is inside of the tube, protected from the elements. But what about on the EOThingy? Is the emitter protected from getting clogged/covered in dirt or crud?

I don't own one, but I though that the EOThingys worked by "projecting" the reticle upon the lens with the emitter located behind and below the lens That said, any obstruction between the two could be rather problematic.

Or am I once again confused beyond all reason?
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 6:55:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2006 7:01:47 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By eric10mm:
One thing that Photoman brought up has me curious a bit.

He mentions that with the EOThingy sight it is easier to clean off the lens should/when it gets dirty. That seems reasonable. But what about the LED emitter? On a "tube" scope the emitter is inside of the tube, protected from the elements. But what about on the EOThingy? Is the emitter protected from getting clogged/covered in dirt or crud?

I don't own one, but I though that the EOThingys worked by "projecting" the reticle upon the lens with the emitter located behind and below the lens That said, any obstruction between the two could be rather problematic.

Or am I once again confused beyond all reason?



Ahh a pic from after last nights range session to illustrate.


If you look at the front of the Aimpoint what do you see on the killflash? Mud. Had I not had the kill flash on that mud would have been all over the front lens(BTDT). Sure you can use the sight still as a occluded optic but eventualy yer going to clear that mud out. It's a bitch to have to dig in there to get that crap out. Because then you end up spreading it around all over the lens and you get a film of crud on it, it loses clarity and shit like that. With the Eothingy it's less of a bitch. It really is nothing but a temporary annoyance but and annoyance none the less.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:29:33 AM EDT
With an Eotech, you've got two lenses.
The laser emitter is located between the two lenses, so it's protected.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 8:32:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mini14jac:
With an Eotech, you've got two lenses.
The laser emitter is located between the two lenses, so it's protected.




oops forgot to mention that part of it too, well it's protected with the aimpoint as well but should have mentioned the inbetween glass on the eothingy too. Thanks for mentioning that.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:54:50 AM EDT
Plus with the Eotech, you can always leave the mud where it is and shift your eye so that the reticle moves to a clear portion of the window.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 11:59:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Plus with the Eotech, you can always leave the mud where it is and shift your eye so that the reticle moves to a clear portion of the window.



Yah you can do that, but sometimes it's not possible. Next time I run into something like that I'll try and get pics. Sometimes there is no real clear portion and you got to clear it....

I just like that it;s much quicker and easier to do with the eotech
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:02:11 PM EDT

Best red dot for around $200?




Save up and get an Aimpoint, Eotech or ACOG.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:04:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
Best red dot for around $200?


tinypic.com/k1axdz.jpg

Save up and get an Aimpoint, Eotech or ACOG.



Were past that now, he already said he was going to get a Eotech.
Link Posted: 1/10/2006 12:04:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By _DR:
Best red dot for around $200?


tinypic.com/k1axdz.jpg

Save up and get an Aimpoint, Eotech or ACOG.



Were past that now, he already said he was going to get a Eotech.



Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:05:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By mini14jac:
With an Eotech, you've got two lenses.
The laser emitter is located between the two lenses, so it's protected.



oops forgot to mention that part of it too, well it's protected with the aimpoint as well but should have mentioned the inbetween glass on the eothingy too. Thanks for mentioning that.


Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for 'splainin' that for me.

But I still just can't get comfy with the idea of not having a rotory knob to operate it. I like the speed of just grabbin' that knob and cranking it around halfway and then commencin' to shootin'.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:14:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 6:14:49 AM EDT by photoman]

Originally Posted By eric10mm:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By mini14jac:
With an Eotech, you've got two lenses.
The laser emitter is located between the two lenses, so it's protected.



oops forgot to mention that part of it too, well it's protected with the aimpoint as well but should have mentioned the inbetween glass on the eothingy too. Thanks for mentioning that.


Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for 'splainin' that for me.

But I still just can't get comfy with the idea of not having a rotory knob to operate it. I like the speed of just grabbin' that knob and cranking it around halfway and then commencin' to shootin'.



I don't have to many issues with it as I leave my SHTF/HD optics on all the time. Thats the one definate advantage to the Aimpoint over everyother dot sight, you can turn that puppy on and leave it on. Bu the EoThingy isn't all that bad once you get used to it you can get it on fast. Just wish they had the same battery life as the AP does.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macros73:
You could consider this:

www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=664830

Burris XTS-135 at Midway



I got one for Christmas and love it. Very crisp, clean, clear red dot. Others here have said they had cluster dots on theirs, but I haven’t seen any pictures of this. I would not hesitate to buy another one.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 6:19:57 AM EDT
Didn't see the astigmatism issue brought up yet - if you have astigmatism at all like I do, the 65 MOA ring becomes a fuzzy "ring of fire" even when the brightness is turned down.

This is why I have invested heavily in Aimpoint. I am still waiting for Eotech to make a dot-only optic, but the earlier, non-waterproofed models are the only option they offer without the 65-MOA ring.


Might want to try before you buy, if you wear corrective lenses or have astigmatism at all. Some say absolute co-witnessing and viewing through the rear aperture cures this for those with astigmatism, but I have never tried that. Your results may vary.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:15:22 AM EDT
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:31:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



If you got anyone by you that you know has one, check it out before you cross it off the list of possibles.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 10:54:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By photoman:

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



If you got anyone by you that you know has one, check it out before you cross it off the list of possibles.



Yep, you might find it tolerable. Some find it worth it regardless. Just go to a dealer that has one, and peer through it to get an idea.
Link Posted: 1/11/2006 11:00:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2006 11:02:36 AM EDT by _DR]
GandR tactical was selling these Eotech for $215 with either a 6MOA dot or Diamond, no outer ring, for $215, still an eotech, might consider one of them.
Don;t know if he has any left.







Thought about getting one myself, but I suspect they are already sold as they were limited.

For the life of me I don't understand why Eotech wont sell a current production dot only model.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 3:49:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



I've got mild astigmatism.

But, the Eotech ring will look fuzzy if you look at it.
If you look past it, and focus on the target, it works as designed.

See if a local sporting goods store has the Bushnell Holosight.
Same reticle, and you should be able to turn it on and see what it looks like
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 4:21:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mini14jac:

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



I've got mild astigmatism.

But, the Eotech ring will look fuzzy if you look at it.
If you look past it, and focus on the target, it works as designed.

See if a local sporting goods store has the Bushnell Holosight.
Same reticle, and you should be able to turn it on and see what it looks like



I wonder if this is what is going on with others saying that they see a cluster of dots instead of a clear dot on the Burris XTS-135. SOme see them some don't. I still can't get anyone to send a photo of this happening.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 5:47:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WolfFox:

Originally Posted By mini14jac:

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



I've got mild astigmatism.

But, the Eotech ring will look fuzzy if you look at it.
If you look past it, and focus on the target, it works as designed.

See if a local sporting goods store has the Bushnell Holosight.
Same reticle, and you should be able to turn it on and see what it looks like



I wonder if this is what is going on with others saying that they see a cluster of dots instead of a clear dot on the Burris XTS-135. SOme see them some don't. I still can't get anyone to send a photo of this happening.



Thats because if it really is thier eyes it won't look that way in the pic.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:00:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
I do wear contact, and have an extreme astigmatism in both eyes. Maybe the Eotech isnt for me....

Dman, i was really getting sold on it./



Patrol120,

I am near you and I have an EOTech if you would like to take a look through one. I have astigmatism in one eye and wear corrective lenses. I haven't had any problem looking through my EOTech.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 8:14:18 AM EDT
I was looking at a trijicon, the dot one they have, , the REFLEX. Yes that one, the other day at the gun store and there we're times where it went double on me. It's a chevron. I tried looking at something, both eyes open, and putting it up and sometimes it was clear and sometimes it was doubled up, the reticle that is. It may have something to do with my dominant eye. My right eye is dominant but it's not very strong dominant. I think it's the worse of the 2 as far as vision goes. Sometimes when I'm using both eyes with the irons, it'll bounce back between the left and right unless I squint the left a little. Seems longwinded but my point is, you may have a similar problem and you may need to squint your left eye a little to keep everything crisp.
Link Posted: 1/12/2006 10:55:32 AM EDT

Patrol120,

I am near you and I have an EOTech if you would like to take a look through one. I have astigmatism in one eye and wear corrective lenses. I haven't had any problem looking through my EOTech.



Thats a great solution..I didnt know you had one. leem know a date that would be convenient for you, and Ill see what i can do. I am off on Sundays and Mondays, and I work the 3pm-11pm shift...
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 8:40:10 AM EDT
well other options a tacpoint
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 9:27:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skipa-de-do-da:
well other options a tacpoint



Not in the same league.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 12:06:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WolfFox:
I wonder if this is what is going on with others saying that they see a cluster of dots instead of a clear dot on the Burris XTS-135. SOme see them some don't. I still can't get anyone to send a photo of this happening.



This is exactly what just happened to me with a SPOT. I just opened the box, poped the battery in and got a massive fuzzy grape like image. I called MSP, where I purchaed it, and talked to Ned the owner. He said he would test one right then and overnight it to me including a $5 bill to cover me sending the one I had back to him.

Then I found this thread, thought.....damn I didnt try it with my glasses on. Well, with glasses on the dot is damn near perfect. I called Ned back, and he cofirmed it with a unit on his end (he has bad eyes also) so I am willing to bet a lot of these problems are people like me with bad eyes.
Link Posted: 1/13/2006 1:59:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2006 2:00:04 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Hookecho:

Originally Posted By WolfFox:
I wonder if this is what is going on with others saying that they see a cluster of dots instead of a clear dot on the Burris XTS-135. SOme see them some don't. I still can't get anyone to send a photo of this happening.



This is exactly what just happened to me with a SPOT. I just opened the box, poped the battery in and got a massive fuzzy grape like image. I called MSP, where I purchaed it, and talked to Ned the owner. He said he would test one right then and overnight it to me including a $5 bill to cover me sending the one I had back to him.

Then I found this thread, thought.....damn I didnt try it with my glasses on. Well, with glasses on the dot is damn near perfect. I called Ned back, and he cofirmed it with a unit on his end (he has bad eyes also) so I am willing to bet a lot of these problems are people like me with bad eyes.



Sucks being blind, I remember trying to hit targets with my M16 in MOPP 4 (Full NBC suit/mask). I did not have any lense inserts, and it was the old M17 protective mask. The only target I could even SEE was the 50 meter target, and I hit that most of the time but everthing else was area fire.

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