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Posted: 2/9/2005 4:48:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Man, for 2 grand I could buy a few more rifles!!
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Posted: 2/9/2005 4:49:35 AM EDT
[#2]
Just noticd the reticle gets bigger with magnification increase, just the opposite of what's needed, typical euro. Also, when the battery is dead, there's not much reticle for fast shooting. Just two notes, not trying to be critical or anything.
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Posted: 2/9/2005 5:23:07 AM EDT
[#3]
Why do you consider a 2nd plane reticle better? In this scopes intended application I can see several advantages to a 1st plane reticle. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 7:20:10 AM EDT
[#4]
ipschoser1, Is the Accupoint a second plane reticle? This would mean that the triangle would get smaller as the magnification increases, correct? |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 10:08:33 AM EDT
[#5]
From a relative perspective, yes. But the reticle remains the same size throughout the magnification range of the scope, the only thing that changes size is the target plane image. 1st plane reticles get larger or smaller as magnification is increased or decreased. They remain the same size relative throughout the magnification range. Consequently, they can be used to range objects at any magnification. 2nd plane reticles can be used for ranging only at a single magnification. 2nd plane reticles are also nice when extreme precision is required for small, distant targets, e.g., prarie dogs. When the manification is increased, the reticle subtends less and less of the target, allowing a precise aiming point. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 10:23:29 AM EDT
[#6]
I think first focal plane is a very good thing.
Check out the Horus reticle at 1x and 4x ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=215966&page=4 By changing the size of the circle and grids, you help to focus the shooter in different situation for different purpose. At 1x, you want a concentrated circle to help the shooter for speed. At 4x you want the fine grids to show up to help your hold offs. Both Horus and S&B takes advantage of that. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 12:15:36 PM EDT
[#7]
As target distance increases (and magnification) the reticle needs to substend less to be proportionate to the target. 2nd plane reticles give better long range precision while providing a larger reticle for up close speed. 1st plane reticles are, IMHO, bass ackwards. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 12:21:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Yes. The TR21's reticle substends 4 MOA @ 4x and 11 MOA @ 1.25x. That's the correct setup, IMO. Think about a dot sight with an 11MOA reticle in a shoot house @ 1.25x! The other extreme is, a 300 yard 6" plate with a 4MOA reticle @ 4x. Now consider how much slower it would be up close and how much less precise it would be at range if they were reversed! That's what you have with some of the euro scopes. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 12:38:21 PM EDT
[#9]
You are assuming the same part of the reticle is for close and distant work. Take a look at the S&B and Horus reticle. At 1x, the fine grid or tic marks are shrunk away leaving a dominant dot or circle for speed. As you zoom your way to distant, the tic marks and grid becomes dominant and you can use them for fine adjust. Look through the reticle before you draw your conclusion. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 1:11:42 PM EDT
[#10]
I've looked at the pics and stated my conclusion. My purpose here isn't to run anyone's choice in optics down but to merely to state my observations. That's what this forum is about. The scopes in question are undoubtedly fine equipment, they just don't jive with what I see is the right direction in some areas. The Accupoint does for the most part. It's a moot point though, I couldn't justify the price of a Short Dot if I wanted one. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 1:55:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Different strokes for different folks...
As always, buy what works best for you, not what someone else says you should use. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 2:20:06 PM EDT
[#12]
 Agree. I made an effort to check out all of those 1-4x scopes in Shotshow and that's how I made up my own mind. I think nothing beats checking it out yourself first before drawing any conclusion. It can be very subjective indeed. |
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Posted: 2/9/2005 3:04:18 PM EDT
[#13]
.
C4 |
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Posted: 2/10/2005 5:40:47 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm in touch directly with mr. Krug @ S&B plant , I'll let you know the EU price ASAP, pp OUT |
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Posted: 2/10/2005 9:41:13 AM EDT
[#15]
PP,
Thanks.
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Posted: 2/16/2005 11:16:49 PM EDT
[#16]
The price of this scope in Europe , tax included , is € 1.122,00
PP out |
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Posted: 2/16/2005 11:39:47 PM EDT
[#17]
BTW , anybody knows the Butler Creek flip-ups misures for it ?
PP out |
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Posted: 2/16/2005 11:54:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks PP.
Sounds like a better price in EU than here. Hmmm, finally I can justify spending money other than via Montenapoleone in Milano for my wife in Europe  .The objective is 30mm size Obj 02A and the eye piece is 43mm a tight fit for Eye 17. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:08:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Hi ,
Honestly , that price is a special one S&B do for military people , I think that for the civvis 'd be 15% higher . You come here ? Before to go to via Montenapoleone go to visit Florence,Pisa,Siena,Venice & Pompei , you'll save a lot of money and you'll enjoy a better Italy. thanks for the infos abt the flip-ups measures. Take care, PP out |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:46:00 AM EDT
[#20]
 In that case its getting closer to the US price. Still I may get a break back in saving the taxfree. Montenapoleone is just a joke. Me and my wife always enjoy Italy (visited four times), Cinque Terra is our favorite. Sorry, gettting off topics here. |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 5:19:38 AM EDT
[#21]
....... just 50 minutes from my home , sorry for the OT, PP out |
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Posted: 5/2/2005 11:50:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Me shooting with my recce carbine & ShotDot
 PP out |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 1:28:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Nice outfit!
PP, doesn't the S&B/LaRue combo sit too high on a SIR? I thought the LT mount was made for the flattop? Any idea how much your RECCE weighs? Lastly- do you like your Sordins? How much did you pay? |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 4:08:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Cato, I find the ShortDot/LaRue combo sits right for me , anyway I'm a big guy with a big head too  , may be it can sits high for some other guys .Those are Peltor Com-Tac , not Sordin , just do not remember the price , sorry. Thanks for yr words abt my stuff , PP out |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 5:31:34 AM EDT
[#25]
I've always wanted a sticker that just says "POS" hehe
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Posted: 5/3/2005 6:16:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Ready to send one to you  PP out |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 1:33:33 PM EDT
[#27]
BSBG:
Just wanted to say thanks for the reticle pics; they have been haunting me like crazy. I got to check out one of these S&B scopes at the gun show last weekend, and they are truly incredible. I love the idea of this scope. The only reason I've not bought one is not because of the price, but because of the battery life. I know I'd use it a lot as a 1.1x red dot; if they can get the battery life at least somewhere close to the AA battery eotech models I'll buy one. I'm sure it's just a matter of time til they get the battery life up. |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 2:05:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Aw thanks PP! But I can't have you spent the money on international shipping for a joke item
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Posted: 5/3/2005 2:21:14 PM EDT
[#29]
Glad to be of service... I wouldn't sweat the battery life. 100 hrs is a long time - 50 trips to the range at 2 hrs each for a $3 battery  . The auto shut off feature keeps you from draining it in the safe as well. There was a post on TF about a soldier using one battery for his entire deployment. How? - By turning it off when he didn't need it.
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Posted: 5/3/2005 10:59:46 PM EDT
[#30]
PP out |
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Posted: 5/3/2005 11:38:05 PM EDT
[#31]
looks like the empty brass is headed straight towards the camera man 
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Posted: 5/4/2005 6:40:42 AM EDT
[#32]
Yep , he got more than one in his face !  PP out |
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Posted: 5/4/2005 11:21:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Damnit quit trying to talk me into it! [repeating to self] battery life too short battery life too short battery life too short...... |
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Posted: 7/3/2005 7:56:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Tag - Still working on funding this one.
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Posted: 7/3/2005 8:56:03 PM EDT
[#35]
If they lowered the price it has serious ultimate optic potential. For $2000 it's too rich for my blood.
Way too rich. $1200 I would consider. LEUPOLD M2 Mrt's I consider to be priced well at $800+- |
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Posted: 7/3/2005 10:20:04 PM EDT
[#36]
deleted
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Posted: 7/4/2005 6:07:15 AM EDT
[#37]
I would like to point out the reason S&B uses a FFP reticle is because it makes it impossimble for the POA to shift with varying magnification. Most SFP reticles have a small amount of shift when zooming.
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Posted: 7/24/2005 5:02:44 PM EDT
[#38]
How do you figure? This is what Larry Vickers says about the S&B and first focal plane reticles: "Also it is worthy to note that the reticle is in the first focal plane which means it grows in direct proportion to the target; in the real world this means you can mil dot at any power setting. Also it means your zero cannot shift during magnification as the reticle is not moving. Despite what anyone else may tell you I believe this is critical for a milspec variable powered optic." That about ends the debate for me. |
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Posted: 7/25/2005 6:52:14 AM EDT
[#39]
If I had the $$, I would buy S&B without a doubt.
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Posted: 8/11/2005 4:31:19 AM EDT
[#40]
Greetings, I have one of these S&Bs in-coming in less than 2 weeks and just want to verify these are the correct size BC caps. Has anyone actually used these sizes on their scope? Thanks, Oznog53 |
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Posted: 8/11/2005 11:51:26 AM EDT
[#41]
Can't believe you tossing brass like that at Jeff, after he brought you a bi-pod..... I triedc the Leupold 1.5-5 MR/T, it is not Short dot but for cheaper budget guys like me, it is a good alternative. the illuminated reticle definitely could do some extra brightness. the 1.5x is a bit diffeerent then a 1.1 like the short dot, but I am used to shooting my AUG so 1.5 wasn't a big change. I plan on getting one and mount it to my SPR... |
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Posted: 8/11/2005 12:09:24 PM EDT
[#42]
I finally got mine on order.
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Posted: 8/11/2005 2:46:29 PM EDT
[#43]
You will be a happy man when it arrives  .
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Posted: 8/11/2005 3:00:38 PM EDT
[#44]
I hope so becuase this damn thing nearly broke the bank.
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Posted: 8/11/2005 3:21:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Greetings again,
In addition to my earlier question, is a Larue SPR 1.5 the correct rings/mount for this scope? If it matters, my rifle has a LMT MRP 14.5" bbl. w/rifle length upper and Troy folding sites. Thanks for your guidance! Oznog53 |
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Posted: 8/11/2005 10:56:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Yep if you do not use to mount a PEQ2A at 12 o'clock .
PP out |
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Posted: 8/12/2005 1:44:09 AM EDT
[#47]
S&B recommendsthe SPR-EER for the Short Dot.
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Posted: 8/12/2005 5:38:15 AM EDT
[#48]
I would say that if your a "nose to CH" shooter then go with the SPR EER. If your not then then go with the standard SPR mount. C4 |
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Posted: 8/12/2005 5:52:05 AM EDT
[#49]
What % shoot nose to CH? This is a bit like TA11/31.......
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Posted: 8/12/2005 6:09:34 AM EDT
[#50]
A lot from what I am told. C4 |
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