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Posted: 12/14/2003 5:11:23 PM EDT
Well, I'm off to Iraq, I've got an M-4... but I'm working on the assumption that the Army's not going to follow through with its promise to give us the great high-speed optics. (Almost half the unit is using M1A2s)

The handrail handily comes off, but there doesn't seem to be any way of taking off the front sight mounting, which seems to be right in the line of anything which might be mounted.

I tend to lean less in favour of magnification as much as a fairly 'forgiving' ability to see through the sight in a hurry without having to carefully squint up the thing (Like high-powered scopes!). Basically, snapshooting, more than anything else. Was considering a holosight or such, but I don't see how I can mount one without the sight being obstructed. (Either by the peepsight or the front post)

I'll listen to most any suggestion, mounted either on the rail or the handle..

NTM
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 6:17:17 PM EDT
Nothing wrong with a M68 CCO (I cannot remember the name but its an Aimpoint sight) and some type of BUIS (I use the ARMS 40). My personal preferance is the EOTECH, that is how I have my M4 set up with. The only issue with the EO-Tech is it isn't a standard issue item through out the military, they are issued to some units but most get the M68.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 7:34:20 PM EDT
The beauty of a EOTech or an Aimpoint is that it allows you to get on target quickly and does not require a perfect cheekweld. The way to use it is to look over the iron sights and use the reticvle while keeping both ewyes open. Should the batteries go down, all you have to do is lower your cheek to the stock as you normalkly would and use the irons. Quick and simple. The irons are not in the way if you focus on the target like you should, so don't worry about them. Now, are you going to be issued an RAS with your M4? This will give you more options as to where to mount the sight. Your field of view will be better if the optic is mounted as far forward as you feel comfortable with. With an RAS, it will give you more versatility to mount the optic in different positions. There are a lot of options available amd a lot of possible configurations if you have the right equipment.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 8:44:23 PM EDT
YOUR FRONT SIGHT WILL NOT BE IN THE WAY OF ANYTHING AND DON"T MESS WITH IT, YOU MIGHT NEED IT IN A HURRY, WHETHER YOU KEEP THE CARRY HANDLE OR GO WITH AN AIMPOINT (CCO)OR NOT. IF THE CCO CRASHES YOU LOOK RIGHT THRU IT AND USE YOUR REAR IRON WITH YOUR FRONT SIGHT. JACK KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN!
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 9:10:36 PM EDT
You're talking to a tanker here.. what the devil is an RAS? (We're being 'recategorised' as motorised infantry by the expedience of their taking away our tanks and giving us HMMWVs....) NTM
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:13:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2003 11:15:09 PM EDT by JimGA]
The RAS is made by Knights Armament, and is one of the various aftermarket rail systems designed to: 1) replace the existing handguards 2) provide a rail system to mount optics further forward than the standard rail you get on your flattop. The RAS is basically replacement handguards with rails on all sides. You can mount optics, a flashlight, night vision, or whatever on those rails. Some of these aftermarket rail systems mount directly to the reciever and and have a "free-float" design, meaning it doesn't touch the barrel at all. Many swear by this and claim that it increases inherent accuracy. I think Knights makes several versions of the RAS, both free float and non-free float (but don't quote me on that). By the way, the MOST important aspect of using one of these, in my opinion, is to mount optics much further forward, giving much better field of view. -Jim
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 2:07:16 AM EDT
Aimpoint M2 ARMS 22M68 ARMS catilevered spacer ARMS 40A2 rear sight You wont see the front sight if you shoot with both eyes open and concentrate on the target. I might suggest other optics if you had time to train but that is the simplest, easiest to use and most field ready solution to your problem.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 2:52:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: Aimpoint M2 ARMS 22M68 ARMS catilevered spacer ARMS 40A2 rear sight You wont see the front sight if you shoot with both eyes open and concentrate on the target. I might suggest other optics if you had time to train but that is the simplest, easiest to use and most field ready solution to your problem.
View Quote
I second that. If you are not issued an RAS, this is probably the best solution for the short time you have before deployment. I prefer the EOTech, myself, but if you can't mount forward of the receiver, it kinda blocks a lot of your field of vision. With the ARMS cantilever you can get the Aimpoint a little bit past the receiver rails, which is an ideal position for this optic. Of course, the view is subjective, but reflex sights are designed to be as far away from your eye as you feel comfortable. The cantilever gives you a little leeway as far as positioning goes, not as much as an RAS, but a little more versatile than just a vertical spacer.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 3:19:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2003 3:21:01 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
As Aimpoint needs a "mount" (like ARMS #22M68)and possibly a spacer (either standard or the "new" cantilever). And both the EOTech and the Aimpoint are about the same cost. If you've a file or access to a Dremel tool you can mount the EOTech this far forward and use and ARMs #40 for back-up for less cost. Like this: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16333[/img] If Aimpoint is your choice of optic (which has an incredible battery life) I'd suggest using a ARMS #38 EX or SuperEX, which requires no spacer (just the #22M68 mount itself). Like this: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=6198[/img] Note some filing or minor Dremel work may be necessary here too, depending on you top handguard choice. (Note: a M4 lower HG still works with a "standard" smaller diameter top HG and allows additional clearance for #38 Super EX, also the #38 has the ARMS #40 BUIS built in) Mike
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 3:04:48 PM EDT
(Almost half the unit is using M1A2s)
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Just gotta know when these came out. I'a bit far behind in in my M4 nomenclature, the only ones I'm aware of are the M4 (BURST) and the M4A1 (AUTO). Both with detachable handles other than the first few thousand M4 which had fixed. The M4A2 is what configuration? If you have the early M4 try this: [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=66344&c=500&z=1"][img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/066344.jpg[/img][/url] Gerry Owen, -- Chuck
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 3:51:42 PM EDT
Chuck Probably a typo for M16A2s.
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 4:17:19 PM EDT
This thread has some good info on M68/CCO/Aimpoints and mounts. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=176068[/url]
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 5:56:46 PM EDT
You're right.. reverted back to my tanking roots there for a second.. (I just -had- to type 'M1A2....') M16A2 is most of the unit. I'll see what I can try out.. I wonder if there's a decent gunstore near Ft Lewis...? NTM
Link Posted: 12/15/2003 9:13:55 PM EDT
Manic, This is off topic, but you watch your Irish ass over there. Good luck and good hunting.
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