Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 11/1/2003 9:04:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2003 9:05:37 AM EDT by 223kid]
Just got back from the range with my new Colt and I have a couple questions regarding my zero. When I first got there I ran about 200 rounds of commercial .223 through it to sort of break her in. Everything seemed alright, but my range was only 25m or so, shooting at 2 liter pop bottles and such. I then set up some paper and ran through the usual motions at 25m to establish battle zero. First 6 shot group was WAY low and a few inches right. I tried to compensate by adjusting my sight picture a bit, and corrected the left/right issue, but I still came up a good 8" low. When all was said and done, I had to drop my front site post WAY below flush to get a solid zero. After that everything was more or less fine.. had little trouble hitting 12oz cans at 75m, and doing about 4-5" groups at 100m with commercial ammo. I guess my questions are: A) Is it at all normal to have to drop your front site that much on a new gun, or might I have some sort of technical issue? B) Should I expect my groups to shrink much with better ammo or should I invest in some mods and/or learn to shoot better? and C) Will my groups generally shrink as the barrel gets worked in more? Sorry for the newb questions, but I just never had this much of a problem in the past.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 11:51:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 223kid: I guess my questions are: A) Is it at all normal to have to drop your front site that much on a new gun, or might I have some sort of technical issue? B) Should I expect my groups to shrink much with better ammo or should I invest in some mods and/or learn to shoot better? and C) Will my groups generally shrink as the barrel gets worked in more? Sorry for the newb questions, but I just never had this much of a problem in the past.
View Quote
A) I think you front sight post is fine. You zeroed your rifle and that's the main thing. Do you have A1 or A2 rear sights? If A2, is the elevation drum set on 8/3? B) Better ammo will increase your groups. But the best thing is practice. Also nose to the CH, breathing, trigger squeeze and proper hold are all factors that effect your groups. C) I'll leave this up to one of the barrel experts. But common sense would say yes. I built a M4gery recently for a friend who never had any type of formal marksmanship training, was also never in the military. He was ALL over the paper trying to zero his rifle. His groups got better when he concentrated on his technique and the factors I mentioned above. Best thing is practice!
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 11:55:13 AM EDT
For a great iron sight sight in method go to the Maryland AR-15 site [url]www.md-ar15.com[/url] and follow the steps listed there.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 12:01:42 PM EDT
IF you : 1. Are using standard A2 sights on a 16" or 20" rifle. 2. Set your sights at "mechanical zero". and 3. Used the Unmarked aperture for sight in. You should be adequately sighted in. (don't worry about the front post as long as you have a good sight picture.) As far as your groups go ... No comment [:D]
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 12:09:03 PM EDT
[url=http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/improvedbattlesightzero.msnw]Improved Battlesight Zero[/url] will let you hit soda cans all day long without messing with the sights after zeroing. "Commercial .223" ammo can be anything. And it's usually slow by several hundred feet a second. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 12:40:36 PM EDT
Thanks for the feedback all. I am using a standard 20" with A2 rear sights, and the elevation knob is indeed set at 8/3. As far as commercial ammo, I just meant non-military ammo for lack of a better term (actually it's $3.00/box cheapo FMJ from Dick's to be specific [:P]). When people refer to "nose to the charging handle" (now this may sound really stupid) do they actually mean to touch the handle with your nose? Seems like not nearly enough eye relief, especially on the 0-200 aperture, but I never really thought about it or tried shooting that way.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 12:58:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 223kid: Thanks for the feedback all. I am using a standard 20" with A2 rear sights, and the elevation knob is indeed set at 8/3. As far as commercial ammo, I just meant non-military ammo for lack of a better term (actually it's $3.00/box cheapo FMJ from Dick's to be specific [:P]). When people refer to "nose to the charging handle" (now this may sound really stupid) do they actually mean to touch the handle with your nose? Seems like not nearly enough eye relief, especially on the 0-200 aperture, but I never really thought about it or tried shooting that way.
View Quote
The AR is indeed designed to be sighted with the tip of your nose touching the charging handle.
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 1:05:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 223kid: Thanks for the feedback all. I am using a standard 20" with A2 rear sights, and the elevation knob is indeed set at 8/3. As far as commercial ammo, I just meant non-military ammo for lack of a better term (actually it's $3.00/box cheapo FMJ from Dick's to be specific [:P]). When people refer to "nose to the charging handle" (now this may sound really stupid) do they actually mean to touch the handle with your nose? Seems like not nearly enough eye relief, especially on the 0-200 aperture, but I never really thought about it or tried shooting that way.
View Quote
Nose to the CH ensures you get the same sight picture each time you shoot. You actually touch the tip of your nose to the CH!
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 1:23:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/1/2003 8:30:35 PM EDT
Jon -- If you're anywhere near Dover/New Philly next Sunday (9 Nov) the last Tusco "fun shoot" is on and you can practice your nose to charging handle shooting. I'll be there. Bring 300 round of ammo. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 10:29:59 PM EDT
If you're anywhere near Dover/New Philly next Sunday (9 Nov) the last Tusco "fun shoot" is on and you can practice your nose to charging handle shooting.
View Quote
i'm actually up in cleveland, but a road trip might be fun. i'm going to look into it and see if i can't make it out.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 2:37:50 PM EDT
I got out the range again today and tried the "nose to the charging handle" method as suggested. It felt weird at first, but now my nose goes right to the handle as soon as I raise the rifle. BIG improvement in accuracy too. Now shooting about 3 MOA with the same ammo, and picking off 2-liters at 200 yards. Thanks for the excellent advice guys!
Top Top