Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/8/2003 5:28:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 5:56:10 PM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
I'm currently using the Armalite "one piece mount" to fit my 56mm NightForce to my Bushy Varminter. The mount seems a little too low and I have wanted more eye relief as well. Keep in mind this scope is long! Since I already have the scope positioned as far forward in the rings as possible, I need a mount that will give me more forward adjustment and will put the scope at the height of regular iron sights. The Armalite actually positions the scope .150" lower than standard iron sites. Below is my concept sketch of what I intend to machine. Notice also I have given the new concept another 1/2" of forward offset. I thought this might be of interest to others mounting large scopes on the varminter. --RR


edited to add this pic. My 11yo son holding the rifle. It's not a great pic but does show the size, length and position of the scope relative to the rifle using the Armalite mount.

Link Posted: 10/8/2003 5:41:59 PM EDT
It looks good and usefull, but since the #35 came out, it allows a modular one piece that I can raise lower and lengthen. Any thoughts in doing something like that? Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 5:45:06 PM EDT
Damn good idea! I've got exactly the same complaints with the Armalite one-piece and my Bushmaster Varminter. Too low and not enough relief. After spending the $$$ for it, I was pretty dissapointed.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:10:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: It looks good and usefull, but since the #35 came out, it allows a modular one piece that I can raise lower and lengthen. Any thoughts in doing something like that? Good shootin, Jack
View Quote
Jack, I may be misunderstanding you here. My impression is the Arms #35 is simply seperate rings that come in low, medium or high? If that's the case it's not a "one piece" configuration. My effort is to create a true one piece like the Armalite with the offsets I require built in. There is a great advantage in having the I,D. of the rings "in-line bored" as a single piece of metal (machined on jig bore). Also I feel there are fewer potential failure modes in a once piece unit. --RR
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:15:27 PM EDT
Good idea, I have the Armalite mount on my Varminter with a Nikon 6-20X44 it needs to be a little higher and more forwad and I also like the one piece design.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:18:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 6:18:25 PM EDT by Hokie]
It's a great idea, although my Armalite one piece mount fits incredibly well and the eye relief is perfect. But modularity is the theme of the black rifle, so why not!
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:50:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HappyJack97: Good idea, I have the Armalite mount on my Varminter with a Nikon 6-20X44 it needs to be a little higher and more forwad and I also like the one piece design.
View Quote
Yes, I believe in keeping things as simple as possible. Since I know where I want the scope positioned on this rifle I don't need further adjustability on the the mount. I know the height I want and I still have the position options on the picatinny rail as well as slipping the scope in the rings. I'll machine this from 6061-T6. The dovetail clamp will conform to MIL-STD-1913. I will include a recoil lug just like the Armalite. The clamp studs will be black oxided and I haven't decided on the thumb nut configuration. I may go with something other than a knurl with slot drive. I'll vapor hone the machined surfaces to achieved a flat satin finish then go with black anodize. Bye the way, in the concept sketch, the scope tube centerline dimensions are shown referenced from the centerline of the V in the dovetail. --RR
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 7:10:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 7:15:07 PM EDT by HappyJack97]
Your measurements look correct, .150" extra height should be just right and the .500" forward should give more versatility for eye relief. What is the best side to put the dovetail clamp and locking nuts on?
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 7:44:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HappyJack97: Your measurements look correct, .150" extra height should be just right and the .500" forward should give more versatility for eye relief. What is the best side to put the dovetail clamp and locking nuts on?
View Quote
That's a Damm good question. Ever notice the clamps are always on the right side on one piece scope mounts as well as removable carry handles? MIL-STD-1913 dimensions all the dovetail features symmetrical off centerline so it shouldn't't matter what side of the rail a mount locates on. I need to pull the mil spec for removable carry handle but I have a feeling the clamp is on the right side for right-handed people. I have noticed having those big awkward thumb nuts on the right side interferes with the other protrusions on that side like the brass deflector. Maybe putting the clamp on the left side is a GOOD IDEA? I'm definitely thinking I'll eliminate the knurl and go with a much smaller hex drive with screw driver slot on the nuts. After all, who can't find something like a coin to stick in the slot if they have to. --RR
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 7:53:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 7:58:50 PM EDT by HappyJack97]
That's how I was thinking, by putting the clamp and hold down nuts on the left side it would keep things clear of the ejection port and brass deflector. What about the two different scope tube sizes 1" and 30mm will you use reducers for the 1" or make two separate mount sizes.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 8:12:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 8:18:00 PM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
HappyJack97, I like that idea. I'll go ahead and detail it out. I'm logging off now but stay tuned. --RR The NightForce is a 30mm tube.... If this becomes a popular item I would definitely think a second configuration option with the mount bored to 1.000 is the way to go. --RR
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 3:23:38 AM EDT
The #35 is a rail/ring combo that acts just like a one piece once you set it up. After it's set up all you have to do is remove and install the ring caps like on the armalit and your new extended design. Seperate rings are not connected in the middle like armalights, yours and the #35 are. Just trying to give you some added idea's. Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:59:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: The #35 is a rail/ring combo that acts just like a one piece once you set it up. After it's set up all you have to do is remove and install the ring caps like on the armalit and your new extended design. Seperate rings are not connected in the middle like armalights, yours and the #35 are. Just trying to give you some added idea's. Good shootin, Jack
View Quote
Thanks for the ideas. --RR
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 4:57:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2003 4:59:18 PM EDT by NE223]
I like my Armalite but right now it's all the way forward and the eye relief is right on the edge. It's also plenty low but I like the set up really well. I'd thought about using a GG&G Scout Length Rail which would raise it 1/2 inch and give me more forward adjustment, but it's also $90 or so and 1/2 inch is going to be on the edge of too high. Plus I'd be adding a little more weight. I'm going to wait and see how you get along with your project. If you could take the Armalite design make it just a little higher and a little more forward adjustable I think you could sell a bunch. Edited to add: Your picture finally loaded. Holy shit you have the Hubble mounted on your AR. That is one large sccope but I like your design.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 6:18:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2003 6:24:01 PM EDT by Onslaught]
Armalite's website says they've "redesigned" their one piece mount, and it LOOKS like it might slide forward now... Were it MY rifle, I'd just have some additional rail added to the float tube so as to extend the flat-top so I could move the existing mount forward rather than machining a whole new mount. If you still want to machine something, what about a lower half insert for your existing scope mount that raise the scope, similar to the Aimpoint QRP "Rail Grabber" spacer... Who knows, if your tube is 30mm, the Aimpoint one MIGHT work.
Ever notice the clamps are always on the right side on one piece scope mounts as well as removable carry handles?
View Quote
Interesting... All the ones I've ever seen were on the left side. This is done (as I understand it) so you can install/remove them with your off hand. An added benefit is that the protrusions will be against your body as you are crawling through brush (for the right handed). If they were on the other side, they'd be sticking out away from you, and more prone to snagging. I'm a lefty, and I prefer the knobs on the right side for both reasons mentioned.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 6:40:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2003 6:41:55 PM EDT by the1_roadrunner]
Originally Posted By Onslaught: Armalite's website says they've "redesigned" their one piece mount, and it LOOKS like it might slide forward now...
View Quote
have they increased the height to that of an iron sight?
Were it MY rifle, I'd just have some additional rail added to the float tube so as to extend the flat-top so I could move the existing mount forward rather than machining a whole new mount.
View Quote
you seem to be missing the point. I don't want to build with Legos
If you still want to machine something, what about a lower half insert for your existing scope mount that raise the scope, similar to the Aimpoint QRP "Rail Grabber" spacer... Who knows, if your tube is 30mm, the Aimpoint one MIGHT work.
View Quote
because band aids are not what I'm looking for here
Iinteresting... All the ones I've ever seen were on the left side. This is done (as I understand it) so you can install/remove them with your off hand. An added benefit is that the protrusions will be against your body as you are crawling through brush (for the right handed). If they were on the other side,
View Quote
whatever, the armalite is on the right side and my mount will be on the left. --RR
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:00:49 PM EDT
have they increased the height to that of an iron sight?
View Quote
I have no idea...
you seem to be missing the point. I don't want to build with Legos
View Quote
I thought that WAS the whole point of the AR... But then again, I'm not mechanically inclined, so I always look for the least complicated and most readily available solution. That's also why I said "If it were MY rifle"...
because band aids are not what I'm looking for here
View Quote
I wouldn't call it that, but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time the US Military used a "band-aid" to solve a problem.
whatever, the armalite is on the right side
View Quote
Since you can use the Armalite from either side, I was thinking more of the detachable carry handle...
and my mount will be on the left.
View Quote
Where it should be.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:17:19 PM EDT
Again, My effort here is to create a "ONE PIECE MOUNT" with the RISE and FORWARD OFFSET required for longer more high powered scopes. I'd appreciate input relative to that effort. I'm not looking for references to modular risers or rails. My effort here is to illiminate just that. --RR
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:26:51 PM EDT
Sorry, I must have missed that disclaimer in your first post... I read: "I need a mount that will give me more forward adjustment and will put the scope at the height of regular iron sights. The Armalite actually positions the scope .150" lower than standard iron sites." And was just trying to help. Thanks
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 7:59:37 PM EDT
Yeah... your probably right. I should have said. I'M DESIGNING A NEW CONFIGURATION FOR A ONE PIECE SCOPE MOUNT SIMILIAR TO ARMALITES, BUT IT WILL HAVE MORE RISE AND MORE FORWARD OFFSET. IF YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL WHO SEEKS SAME IN A ONE PIECE MOUNT? I'D APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT. NOT LOOKING FOR REFERENCES TO EXISTING MODULAR SCOPE MOUNT COMPONENTS. CLARIFICATION- A ONE PIECE SCOPE MOUNT MEANS "A SINGLE COMPONENT" THAT BRIDGES THE GAP BETWEEN THE PICATINNY RAIL ON AN UPPER RECIEVER AND THE SCOPE TUBE. --RR
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 8:57:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2003 9:17:13 PM EDT by Onslaught]
Yep, that woulda done it for me... That way, guys like me, 3rdtk, and any others who have so obviously frustrated you with our unwanted input would have known that you weren't actually "looking for a better way to mount.... so anyone with any thoughts on that please join in" but rather putting your one specific idea out there for others to nod their heads in agreement, and maybe even get some free-for-nothing additional input you hadn't thought of to better your product, and even better to build up some anticipation within your potential client base. But if you don't like MY idea, or you have your own idea that can't make ME any money, keep it to yourself. Cute kid though... looks like his Daddy taught him well. Finger off the trigger and all that.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:25:54 PM EDT
Ah, gotta love arfcom, a guy comes up with a good idea, and it turns into everyone pissing in eveyrone else's oatmeal. Nice. I think it looks like a good idea roadrunner. I also agree that the knobs (or whatever you use)should be on the left side of the mount. I don't think, no matter what sort of "band aids" or shims you put under the existing Armalite mount, you'd be able to get ONLY the .150" increase you're looking for either. I would bet that most would put you significantly higher than that. .150" is slightly over 1/8", and most of the rails look to be at least 1/4".
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:51:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74: Ah, gotta love arfcom, a guy comes up with a good idea, and it turns into everyone pissing in eveyrone else's oatmeal. Nice. I think it looks like a good idea roadrunner. I also agree that the knobs (or whatever you use)should be on the left side of the mount. I don't think, no matter what sort of "band aids" or shims you put under the existing Armalite mount, you'd be able to get ONLY the .150" increase you're looking for either. I would bet that most would put you significantly higher than that. .150" is slightly over 1/8", and most of the rails look to be at least 1/4".
View Quote
Agreed. Everything I've been able to come up with would raise the Armalite about 1/2 inch whic is more than what I'm looking for. That's whats stopped me from going to a rail solution, I want to keep that scope as low as possible. Has anyone e mailed Armalite to see what the "Improved" is on their mount? I am sold on the one piece mount, it just needs to be a little higher and have a little more adjustment. I'm looking forward to seeing what roadrunner comes up with.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 7:24:55 PM EDT
Roadrunner, any progress with your mount?
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 2:09:43 AM EDT
Looks like the nearby thread on Nightforce scopes has a picture of the mount you need. It's a one-piece mount with a very long rail. Maybe you don't need to design and make one?
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 5:10:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Chipster: Looks like the nearby thread on Nightforce scopes has a picture of the mount you need. It's a one-piece mount with a very long rail. Maybe you don't need to design and make one?
View Quote
[img]http://outcast.homeunix.org/uploads/guncase.jpg[/img] If this is the photo you're referring to? That's not a "one piece scope mount" it's typical modular components. An extended rail mounted to existing rail then topped off with raised rings. It's no where near a one piece mount. To answer Happy Jack.... It's the last quarter right now and I'm very busy with my shop, without getting into detail, I'm a designer, manufacturing engineer but also manager of the machine shop for my company which is a major defense contractor. We are very busy right now and I haven't had much time at all to play around with this. I'll definitely post when I have made some progress with this. --RR
Top Top