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Posted: 9/10/2003 11:32:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 11:34:15 AM EDT by RogueAssassin]
Looking for a good scope that will hold up to a beating and is accurate. The problem is that if I get the scope that I want, my wife will devorce me and take me to the cleaners. She doesn't understand why I want to pay close to $1050.00USD on a single scope. SO... to keep both of us together, I need your help...

I have a Self built AR...
DPMS Matched Forged Lo-Pro Flattop Upper and Lower
Chrome Bolt and Carrier Group
Panther Grip
Short A2 Entry Buttstock
Olympic Arms SUM Bull 1:8 Barrel (Bead Blasted) Satin Grey w/ Picatinny Gas Block

I'm looking for a Compact Scope so that I may also add a set of ARMS Sights later. Nothing too drastic as far a Mag/power is concerned, but it must have a lot of light gathering capability. And Target turrets... if traditional scope.

[Added]

If red dot.. it must have a very small MOA dot...
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 2:29:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:13:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: The type of shooting you will do has a huge impact on the type of optic that would be best suited for your needs, so how about some info on what you use the rifle for? -Troy
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Type of Shooting.... Mostly short and mid range target.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:09:28 PM EDT
What Troy was wanting to know is what are you going to be shooting at - people at 20 feet - at 600 feet, groundhogs, targets .... it does make a difference.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 8:17:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: What Troy was wanting to know is what are you going to be shooting at - people at 20 feet - at 600 feet, groundhogs, targets .... it does make a difference.
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you know... I have been trying to get that "Two-legged deer license" for a long time, but the sales rep at the sporting good store keeps telling me that they are not in season yet... Basicly... If I can see it and it is not illegal to shoot then it is fair game... All joking aside.. my targets will be anything from paper targets to golf balls to filled, frozen milk bottles to little furry varmits. All between the range of 50yds to 600yds (if I can see it.)
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 11:34:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 11:35:07 AM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:16:31 PM EDT
Does any one make a compact scope comparable to the Leupolds??
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 8:53:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 9:40:12 PM EDT
With that nice barrel, I'd get a conventional scope. A compact scope with target turrets is an oxymoron. I'm afraid you will have to pick one or the other. The Leupold VX3, Bushnell 4200, Nikon Monarch and Weaver Grand Slam scopes are all reputed to have excellent glass. You would probably be satisfied with any of them. I have the first two, and the Bushnell is definately superior. It is also quite a bit cheaper. But it is a pretty big scope. They have 2.5-10x40, 2.5-10x50 (illuminated recticle available) and 1.5-6x36 models. [url]www.swfa.com[/url] has good prices on all of these brands. Leupold may be cheaper from [url]www.sableco.net[/url]. If you want target turrets, Leupold has a lot more selection than anyone else. If you want a lot of windage and elevation adjustment range, look at a 30mm tube. Like Troy says, their big scopes with target turrets can cost $800+.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 10:55:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:49:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By imposter: A compact scope with target turrets is an oxymoron. I'm afraid you will have to pick one or the other.
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aaahhhh come on.... It's hard enough already.... It doesn't have to have M1 style turrets.. M3 will do me just fine... Looking for a compact scope because of the Stubby A2 buttstock I have on it.. I could just replace the buttstock and get a conventional scope w/ M3 turrets... Also does any one here use the Elcan with the single vertical post and illuminated triangle post tip??? I understand that it is a 3.4x scope. How does it (read: you) perform at ranges beyond 200yds??
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:14:11 AM EDT
How long is your barrel? Is it free-floated?
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:37:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 7:43:41 AM EDT by RogueAssassin]
Originally Posted By imposter: How long is your barrel? Is it free-floated?
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20" barrel with three piece free float locking tube. (Tube, nut, locking ring) I put the short A2 stock on it because I am planning to add an Ironstone Competition Stock on it (pretty soon) which requires the CAR buffer and spring. I'll post some pics when I get my brothers digital camera... he's the digital guru.. I'm the Semi-Pro Film Purist..
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:51:38 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:19:18 AM EDT
With a setup like that, I'd get one of the big Leupolds. A compact scope will not let you use the rifle to its full potential.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:25:39 AM EDT
I have used a Leupold Vari-X-III in 1.75 x 6 x 32 on my AR with previously mentioned Armalite mount. This is relatively compact and looks good on the rifle. I replaced it with a VX2 1 x4 which works better for my purposes (3-Gun) with targets to 300 yds. The sniper community talks favorably about the Bushnell Elite 3200 fixed 10 x 40. This comes with target knobs and mil-dot reticle @ 189.95 from SWFA. 10 power is plenty for 600 yds.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:06:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 8:11:34 PM EDT by RogueAssassin]
Okay... the general opinion here to to trash the thought of a compact scope for these reasons: 1) The really compact scopes are pieces of junk. and will not hold up. 2) A compact scope is very limiting to the equipment I have put together. After taking in your thoughts. I am going to get....... ......... ......... The Leuplod Vari-X III 3.5-10x40mm Illuminated MD M3 Long Range Scope. Now.. does any one know where to find one for less than 900.00 (Midway)?????? [Edited because I changed my mind... that 6 times now...]
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:21:27 PM EDT
note to self: stay single.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:59:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy: note to self: stay single.
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A little late for me... I've been married for 3.5 years... And do not know for how much longer...
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 4:36:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RogueAssassin:
Originally Posted By imposter: A compact scope with target turrets is an oxymoron. I'm afraid you will have to pick one or the other.
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aaahhhh come on.... It's hard enough already.... It doesn't have to have M1 style turrets.. M3 will do me just fine... ?
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You could hold out for the commercial release of the Leuopold TS-30 A2...
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 1:54:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bsbg: You could hold out for the commercial release of the Leuopold TS-30 A2...
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Where can I find information on this scope???
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 2:11:33 PM EDT
I've owned a few Leupolds and ACOG's in the $800 range, and can highly recommend them, however if I was going to look for quality optics at budget prices I'd check out the Weaver Grand Slam series. I've never had the opportunity to look through them, but I've heard really good things about them, and Chris at SWFA swears they're as good as any Leupold. I don't know how true this is, but I'm thinking of buying one myself to try out.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 2:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 2:33:10 PM EDT by imposter]
sableco.net used to have unbeatable prices on Leupold scopes. I'd check there. As others have mentioned, there are other brands that have glass as good or better than Leupold for less money, but nobody offers scopes with as much windage and elevation adjustment as the big Leupolds. Hopefully we will some more competition for that market soon.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 4:11:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 5:50:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 5:54:53 PM EDT by bsbg]
Originally Posted By RogueAssassin: Where can I find information on this scope???
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Do a search for "SPR" and you will get about a hundred hits. Somewhere in there is the discussion of this scope. Here's a start: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=165590&w=searchPop[/url] The first SPR's used the Leupold Illuminated LR M3. Due to the long eye relief, a rail joining the upper receiver to the free float tube was required. The TS-30 was designed to eliminate the need for this and allow the scope to be mounted directly to the upper due to its shorter eye relief and smaller overall size. Power was in the 2.5-8 range I believe. I have read the same things as Troy - the LR M3 is preferred, exactly why I don't know.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:25:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 9:38:29 PM EDT by RogueAssassin]
okay guys... thanks for the help, but trying to find a compact scope IMO is a lost cause. therefore I'm just going to have to tell my wife that if she wants to leave to she can also leave the keys... I'm going to the TWO scopes... One for long range target (NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56) and one for General Purpose (Elcan 3.4x ELC223). Yeah I know the pripe just tripled, but hell since no one make a "one size fits all" scope. Also I'm going to place a full length stock on it in the mean time... the Ironstone stock can wait for now...
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 9:35:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 9:40:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: I would REALLY evaluate buying the ELCAN until you've taken a hard look at the ACOGs, unless you'll only be shooting from the bench. ELCANs are very heavy, and make the gun top-heavy. I'm also no fan of the reticule. Great glass, though. -Troy
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How heavy could the Elcan be??? How heavy(light) are the ACOGs???
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 9:45:45 PM EDT
DO NOT BUY AN ELCAN... Damn we gotta get that FAQ finished
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 9:48:23 PM EDT
Get with me on what we have for the FAQ so far and what we still need. Meantime, listen to Kevin about the Elcan, I doubt anyone on the board has as much experience as he does using it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 10:31:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KevinB: DO NOT BUY AN ELCAN... Damn we gotta get that FAQ finished
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Talk to me... Tell me something beside "Don't Buy"!!!!
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 10:37:17 PM EDT
Heavy - Fragile etc. I will expand more tomorow.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 9:03:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2003 9:06:09 AM EDT by 223Rem]
50-600 yards? Really do not think he is going to see a varmint all that well at 400 yards with scope 10x maximum. Those 3.5-10x scopes the military uses are for human targets that range from 60" plus, not 18" for a varmint. He may be better served with a little higher magnification, say 4.5-14x, 4-16x or even a 6-20x for his general purpose scope. Check out Burris' Black Diamond Series. Side parallax, and really nice glass for about $500.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 2:58:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: I would REALLY evaluate buying the ELCAN until you've taken a hard look at the ACOGs, unless you'll only be shooting from the bench. ELCANs are very heavy, and make the gun top-heavy. I'm also no fan of the reticule. Great glass, though. -Troy
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Yeah, what Troy said! This thread went from the "bare minimum" to the "extreme" in no time flat. If you want a great overall "inbetween", look at an ACOG.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 7:10:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 7:47:20 PM EDT by RogueAssassin]
Originally Posted By PPD: Yeah, what Troy said! This thread went from the "bare minimum" to the "extreme" in no time flat. If you want a great overall "inbetween", look at an ACOG.
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I found a thread that troy had replyed to, and with everyone saying the same thime about the elcan... I have decided to op for an ACOG TA50R-2 As far as "zero to HERO" (I like this saying much better)... I was wanting to keep things simple at first. But Simple was full of bugs. After thinking about it for a while I figure that I can get Two GREAT Scopes that I can use for several rifles using a quality detachable Base w/Rings and noting the "Zero" adjustment for each rifle. Two Scopes for three rifles: Remington 700 PSS in 300RUM Remington 700 VS in 243 Custom Rogue AR-15 Besides I really don't want to waste money on cheap optics... just too bad the Elcan was so heavy and fragile. I actually like it.
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