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Posted: 9/7/2003 8:52:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 4:43:00 AM EDT by Aleko]
OK, this is probably a very stupid question, and I will most likely be laughed at, but what the heck… h.gif h
Could someone please explain the purpose of Aimpoint sight, or how does it work? I was looking at CompM2/CompML2. I think I’m missing something obvious here… There is no explanation on Aimpoint’s website about how they work and what’s so special about them. I’ve watched the video they have on there about a dozen of times, and still don’t get it. It leads you to believe that you don’t have to keep the sight centered on your target, unlike “other inferior sights”, just center the dot. I don’t understand how it’s possible. Don’t you have to center the sight to center the dot? Isn’t dot always in the center of sight? Also, since it’s 1x sight (no magnification), why bother?
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:08:47 AM EDT
I'll try my best but it's concept is real simple. You look through the sight and put the red dot on what you want to hit. Unlike regular iron sights you have a big circle that you simply put the front sight post in and put on ur target and shoot. Yes you do have to sight in a red dot optic. The red dot does move around if you move your head position but no matter where you move your head as long as the red dot is on target then you'll hit what you are aiming for. Plus it looks really cool!
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:18:39 AM EDT
An advantage of the Aimpoint is the target and red dot are at the same optical distance from you eye ... a much bigger help for us old guys with bifocals, but still helps in aiming speed for younger members.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:53:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 4:55:43 AM EDT by Aleko]
Originally Posted By jadams951: ... but no matter where you move your head as long as the red dot is on target then you'll hit what you are aiming for...
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Well, if I acquire a good sight picture with regular iron sights, then move my head away (or even look away), and assuming I keep the perfect and firm stance while doing that, I'll still hit the target right where I aimed at before looking away. It sounds like one of those "have to see to believe" things, I guess... [>:/] I can see how the red dot could be beneficial on magnified scope (you see your target better, and have a dot for easier acquisition), but for 1x scope - doesn't sound like it should make much of a difference. Wish I could try it for myself before spending money on it, but all rental rifles I’ve seen around here are very basic... [:(]
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:08:41 AM EDT
Okay, the best way to explain why a zero magnification red dot has any value is if you think about it as a laser sight that doesn't project a light that could give away your position and that doesn't have problems with disappearing in bright light. You just keep both eyes open, focus on the target, and place the Red Dot of Death[tm] over whatever you want to destroy. With other sights, including the irons, moving your head around will change your point of impact but a good red dot like the Aimpoint minimizes the effects of am inconsistant cheek weld.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:40:36 AM EDT
If one uses the large appearture on the A2 sight for most of their shooting would consider the Aimpoint, however, if one nearly always uses the small apperature then a low power X2 to X4 scope should be considered (assume the $1K for a nice ACOG and BUIS is out of the price range [:)] For shooting off of the bench, with a good check weld on the stock, taking time to aim each shoot fired and shooting at high contrast targets such as the black bull, I am not for sure the Aimpoint M2 (or similar) have that much advantage for a younger shooter that can still focus on the front sight and target. Was shooting my HBAR flat top this weekend and the Aimpoint groups vs the iron sights (small apperature, KAC 600 meter sight) were similar. The red dot that appears to "sit out on top of the target" helps is when you have very little time to setup to aim due to shooting mupltiple shoots (i.e. subgun match or similar type shoots at dozens of targets with the AR15/M16 ... or real world tatical applicaitons). The red dot types do not require as much effort to line three parts of an iron sight picture (rear sight, front sight and target), allows one to follow the world out side the exact target center and the bright dot tends to draw ones eye to the aiming point. All which helps cut a few fractions of a second off of the aiming. Have left off the advantages of the red dots when too dark to use iron sights (at least those with out glow in the dark dots).
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:53:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 7:54:46 AM EDT by DeMarcus]
In action rifle matches, combat & dealing with noisy neighbors, you change positions often and it may not be a best shooting stance. With a cheap scope, you're thinking about 2 things: 1) Is my dot in the center of the glass 2) Is my dot on the target With aimpoint: 1) Is my dot on the target
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:22:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JTinIN: ...assume the $1K for a nice ACOG and BUIS is out of the price range [:)]...
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Actually, that's what I was thinking about... I just noticed that Aimpoints are much less than ACOG, so I wanted to see what it's all about. There is Trijicon ACOG TAO1NSN for sale on EE board, for much less than retail price. I don't know if it's really a good deal, but never the less... Am I trying to bite more than I can chew? Is it "too much" for a beginner, for someone whose primary reason for getting AR is just plinking at the range (at least at first) anywhere between 25 yards up to 200 yards? Should I save my money and get something more "down to earth"?
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:31:27 AM EDT
An ACOG TA01NSN is a mid range scope, it is a horrible scope for shooting close up. The Ghost ring on it is a poor substitute. This is one reason lots of guys with TA01 tend to alter the rear ghost ring into a mounting platform and add a red dot like the Doctor to the ACOG. ACOG is expensive and it is worth every penny. I highly suggest looking into the TA31 series. you will not find a better combat optic on the market. as far as the red dot setup, Aimpoint will give you years of service and great performance. This is an excellent choice for this application. make sure you get a decent mount for your Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:55:51 AM EDT
I found there was only one totally correct answer for my M16 and that was to have three uppers (or three AR15s if semi). Of course this is a litte more expensive [:)]. One for close range (perfect from feet to 60 plus yards ... still good to 100 to ~200+ yards) with a moderate barrel length (M4 or 16" on the AR) setup with the Aimpoint (or Eotech) on a flattop upper and the ARMs #40 BUIS. The second (which I am still getting) should be an ACOG TA31 (or TA11) on a flat top, again with an ARMs #40 BUIS (or the KAC 300 meter sight). If one already had the first upper for close range, I would go with the 20" A2 barrel profile, however, a very good case could still be made for M4 or 16" barrel. The second setup is the best choice if you are going to only have one IMO, if you are shooting at 300 yards and close some of the time (if close most of the time and/or 100 yards and under at medium to large targets then IMO go with the Aimpoint / Eotech). The third should be a HBAR (or at least an A2) 20" upper with a 1 in 7 twist with a nice 3.5 by 10 Leaupold mil dot scope (or better). This rifle could be sighted in with ~75 grain bullets, however, can make a good case that since this is for past 100 to 300+ yards (still ok to ~ 25 yards or a little closer if targets are not too fast [;)], it would be best in 308, but that is another discussion.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:04:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:38:37 PM EDT
I'm going to purchase an Aimpoint soon.Anyone know how long bateries will last in M2,ML2?Also how long a new in package batery would last(buying extras incase SHTF)
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:46:19 PM EDT
Battery life is pretty extreme in the M2/ML2. I'm using an M-XD, the previous generation, and I haven't had to change a battery after 3 years of using it on average once or twice a month.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:06:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: With iron sights, you have to have FOUR things in alignment to ensure you hit exactly where you want: ... With a magnified scope, you have THREE: ... With a dot sight, you have TWO: -Troy
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Nice summary, I had nulled out the eye in all cases, however, your point out why I like the Aimpoint ... so I can also watch the targets get hit (be they steel or tin cans in GPB) Regards John P.S. GPB = Gravel Pit Blasting
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:10:10 PM EDT
Thanks,that sound pretty good.Whats the diff. between the two versions?My M-4 was finished today,the Aimpoint will be the only mod.(well for now anyways).
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 6:48:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By storminnorman: I'm going to purchase an Aimpoint soon.Anyone know how long bateries will last in M2,ML2?Also how long a new in package batery would last(buying extras incase SHTF)
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The new CET models have circutry that allows a theoretical 10,000 hrs of operation in the low settings. Im still using the original batter that came in my Aimpoint almost a year ago...and I have the double battery module, so its ready to be flipped and back in business in very little time.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:28:08 PM EDT
Am I trying to bite more than I can chew? Is it "too much" for a beginner, for someone whose primary reason for getting AR is just plinking at the range (at least at first) anywhere between 25 yards up to 200 yards? Should I save my money and get something more "down to earth"?
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Can't believe no one else has posted it yet, so I guess I'll stick it out there.[;D] The old stand by answer to this is: learn to use your irons first! That being said, I just put together my first AR and I immediately stuck an Aimpoint on it.[:D] Personaly, I think it is very important to learn to use iron sights as you have to have something to use if that fancy scope dies on you, which is why I shoot about half and half when at the range. That being said, I love the aimpoint. It works amazingly well in CQB type shooting. You will also find a very large ACOG following on this board. I've played with one at a show but never fired a rifle with one. Even so, had I the money I probably would have gone with a compact ACOG. So to make a long answer a short one, go with what you can afford and like. This is going to be your rifle so take all of this advice and decide what YOU want. Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:11:50 AM EDT
i keep my aimpoint on at 7 clicks all the time, i ve had my m2 for almost year and half, battery life is unbeliviable, if your really concerned buy the extra extra battery holder from aimpoint. for under 100yds in my opinion aimpoint comp m2 is the best!!! good luck
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:13:23 AM EDT
oh by the way dont waste your money on anything less than an arms m68 mount for your ar if you have a a3 flattop!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:46:00 AM EDT
My next qestion was going to be witch mount?Thanks!Any other coments on mounts???
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:56:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 10:57:22 AM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:05:02 AM EDT
Another vote for the 22M68 Extended [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=24926&iGalleryUnq=235&iImageUnq=12665[/img]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 3:46:24 PM EDT
I have a p/b M-4 would you still recomend the extended version if the stock is non colapsable?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:35:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:47:41 PM EDT
Thanks Troy!Now i know witch mount to purhase.
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