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Posted: 8/4/2003 8:48:09 AM EDT
I have been wanting to get an optical sight for my flattop, and have been going back and forth between the Eotech and the Reflex. I am leaning towards the Reflex because of it's simplcity, no batteries, no buttons, nothing to fumble with, it is always on.

I'm still trying to make up my mind, should I get the Reflex, specifically the TX06 with amber triangle?

I have looked through a couple of Reflexes in bright sunlight, indoors, in shadows, and didn't notice any washout some folks have complained about. Did I not set up the right environment to experience the washout, or is that problem exaggerated?

One last question, I have the fobus handguards that have the picatinny rails on them, would that be a stable enough platform to mount any sight for shooting out to 150 yards?

Thanks.

Pete.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 8:51:31 AM EDT
You sound like you have your mind made up on the Reflex despite the hard earned advice of some knowledgable people (who owned the Reflex). So in that case, mount it on a flat top. Plastic handguards are not stable enough to hold zero.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:03:33 AM EDT
Well today is Monday, and I am leaning toward the Reflex. :) Seriously, I am still open to suggestions for a different sight, I was wanting to see if folks would tell me to steer clear of the Reflex even after I stated a strong preference. Frankly, I haven't even ruled out the Aimpoint. I have been going back and forth between the Eotech, Aimpoint, and Reflex, each with their own strengths, but still can't make a decision. I was hoping that the Tri-Power would be the ticket, but that appears to be DOA. Pete.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:28:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2003 2:44:35 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Buy an Aimpoint if you want extended battery life, and you are mounting it to a SWAM sleeve or SIR system. Buy an EOTech is you are looking for speed in a close in engagement and a wider FOV. Buy an Reflex if you just don't like batteries at all. What are you using the Reflex for? General range shooting? or something more serious?? Since you have look through a couple of Reflex, then I will make it simple. remember the blue tint on the obj. lens?? that will distort your view out pass 200 yards especially in twilight condition. remember the dime orange reticle, will just don't plan on taking your fight on to a street or parking with those orange street lamp, also if you lite up a 9v combat light in the dark prepare to have your reticle in your Reflex disappear. I never experienced any wash out in the bright sun light(SoCal) but in the desert the reticle is somewhat faint for a very fast pickup. buy an EOTech if you like the single pane set up of the Reflex, or buy an Aimpoint. Reflex is a distant third on my red dot list, but the Reflex is by far a better optic then likes of OKO, Corba, Propoint and Hakko. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:42:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 9:43:34 AM EDT by Forest]
I like them both (one of each on my carbines) and they both have issues. Some of the Reflex's can be addressed with this mod ([url]http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/improvethereflexii.msnw[/url]) Both sights have (& are) in use by the Military - however you'll find less and less Reflexes and more and more EO Techs for the brighter reticle which is easier to use with changing light conditions. Also the EO Tech is a more mud/snow proof than the Reflex. But I should say in my 6-7 years owning and using my Reflex (first model) I've never had a washout problem while shooting. The only times I experienced washouts were when I was experimenting as you had (using a Surefire and a white wall at close range). Indeed when shooting toward the sun I've often had the opposite problem (dot TOO bright) turning my 6moa dot into an effective 10moa dot (just like turning the Aimpoint on FULL in a dim room). Fight4YourRights has run his a number of years under similar conditions (and during a carbine course) and not had problems. BTW I also own the Fobus handguards. I love them for mounting foward grips & lights - I would NEVER use it to mount an optic. [i]Edited to add:[/i] I should note - between the two the one I prefer to shoot with is the EO Tech.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 11:27:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 4:59:06 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:30:52 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses. I do remember the blue tint, and no, I haven't looked through the Reflexes at dusk, or with sodium vapor lights burning in the background. The reflex sights I have used, one had the amber triangle, and the other had a 4 minute red dot. My primary use will be at the range, where we set up multiple targets and shoot on the move. So batteries shouldn't be a problem, I just like to keep things simple. Troy, that is a very enlightening picture, and really demonstrates the limitations of the Reflex. It's only Monday evening, and I am now leaning back toward the Eotech. :) Pete.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:08:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:09:28 PM EDT by Duffy]
pjb, EOTech and Aimpoint will do a better job than the Reflex. I purposely took the filter off of mine before I snapped the picture, because if it seems dark on that pic, the tint is worse even at its lightest setting with the filter screwed on. As if the reticle wash out isn't bad enough, the tint makes it worse. I don't know the motives behind this, but all other optics I know WANT to present a clear and bright sight picture, the tint does the opposite.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 10:24:55 AM EDT
A dissenting point of view....... I have owned reflex (II)s, aimpoints, acogs, tascos, suits, and almost everything else man has made (no eo-tech yet though). For general type stuff, or if people are trying my rifle, I always pick up the reflex II with amber triangle. I do like my acog, it is my second favorite, but it is a 4x and even with bac it is a bit much magnification imho for real cqb stuff. Yes, the aimpoint dot is brighter and easier to pick up. Yes, aimpoints do use batteries, and even with their great battery life I have still pulled a rifle out of the safe with a aimpoint and dead battery. (It was not the cet one though). For me, the relfex II works great. I can see more around the exterior of the sight and the triangle is very quick to pick up for me. I am in fact buying another 12.5 triangle model to put on another of my rifles. My wife prefers the Reflex II also, she says it is the easiest for her to shoot (she has not shot a lot). It is really a individual preference, personally I think the reflexII's get a poor rap. I have not experienced reticle washout in my shooting, but I don't doubt it can occur under some circumstances. It is sad to say, but the way you have to go to find what works for you is basically to try all the systems out there a couple times to see what you like. Which is why I have so many sights - and why you see so many for sale. I have often wished some rich guy would throw a reflex II, aimoint, compact acog, acog, and eo tech into a box and let people borrow them to try before they buy a new sight. In fact, if I win the lottery, that's what I'll do!, so hold your breath. Anyway, in my opinion, for the price(especially if you can get one used) the reflex II is a darn good sight, and I would not count it out.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 10:36:29 AM EDT
I'll let anyone try the stuff I have..TA11, TA01NSN, Reflex II, ELCAN, SN4, Leupold VariX III, but I'm a lazy bastard so y'all have to come to me or go to a place not far from me to try them out for yourselves [:p]
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 5:03:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 4:59:36 PM EDT by Troy]

Originally Posted By kavik:
I have still pulled a rifle out of the safe with a aimpoint and dead battery. (It was not the cet one though).




Then you've just missed Troy's entire point. And considering that the Reflex is close to 3/4's the cost of an CET Aimpoint...WHY.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:23:42 AM EDT
No I haven't missed Troy's point. Jeeze Lumpy, you are against reflex like 3rdtk is against anything not ARMS. Get over it. People like different sights for many different reasons, its a personal preference. I already stated why I like the reflex II better. No batteries, no knobs, quick for me to find the reticle, like the triangle, less visual "footprint" of the actual sight when viewing past the sight, ie no lens covers folded down, no battery compartments / knob housings in my way. You can pick all my reasons apart if you want to, but its a preference, doean't mean the aimpoint is bad, and doesn't mean people are making a mistake using the Reflex!
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 7:30:07 AM EDT
Im against the Reflex because IMHO its VERY inferior to whats available these days and experienced first hand its limitations and want to spare someone else from find out at a VERY inopportune time. Im no worse about it than Troy. I wouldnt hesistate to use it on a range toy. In fact mine always allowed me to shoot some very decent groups on the range. But for serious use, there are several much more impressive options.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 2:31:13 PM EDT
The ReflexII worked great for my AR, but my new ACOG allows for better accuracy at long ranges. I need all the help I can get when shooting with Steve. Therefore, I have a gently used Reflex for sale. It isn't a perfect design, but it fills a niche quite well-inexpensive, simplistic quality. Of course, in a perfect world, I would own at least a dozen ARs, each with a different sight/optic set up. But alas, I have but one... Be well!
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 6:26:16 PM EDT
what kind of reflex site do you have what type reticle is what type mount does it have and how much do you want for it
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 12:46:58 AM EDT
I have owned two Trijicon Reflex sights in the past, and did not have problems with them. Prior to owning these, I had an Armson OEG, so on a bright sunny day, I would turn Reflex polarizing filter so it would behave the same way as an OEG. My preference these days is the Aimpoint. One day I'll scape up the cash to get a compact ACOG just to try out. As usaul, YMMV
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 4:38:43 AM EDT
I've found with the Reflex, the reticle will wash out when shooting toward the ocean out of a helicopter. (wondered when I'd get the chance to say that) With both eyes open, the blue tint has never really bugged me as long as the reticle stays bright. That said, I think the Aimpoint/Eotechs are superior whether you're sniping from helos or not. And if you're at all a Hoo-yah groupie, most operators would agree. For range use, just follow your heart. I personally prefer to mount optics only to the receiver. I'd barely trust zero on a RAS let alone a less stable design. YMMV!
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:22:25 AM EDT
The Reflex was the first dot sight I bought, mostly due to reccommendations on this board. It sucked. It was too dark and it washed out. In order to stop it from washing out you had to use the filter, which made it even darker so it basically became an OEG. You need pretty good eyes for that. I liked the triangle and the ARMS mount. But as soon as I got an Aimpoint and had something to compare it to, I sold it. The Reflex used to have the advantage of needing no batteries, but that has been largely erased with the new longer battery lives of the Aimpoints and Eotechs. IMHO the Reflex is not in the same league as the Eotech or Aimpoint. Not even close.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:16:34 AM EDT
ANy of the reflex type sights with blue tinted glas (Reflex, Kobra, OKO, etc) are like wering sunglasses at night. Remember that. I will never own another blue tinted optic for this reason alone battery powered or not.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:34:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2003 3:45:06 PM EDT by JTinIN]
If one is shooting from deep shade to bright open sun, then the local lighting arond the shooter is too low to make the aiming triangle in the Reflex II bright enough to be of much use (the self illumination is only bright enough for use in the near dark). One can notice this effect when shooting from inside to the outside in bright [green]sun[/green]; from deep woods to an open sun lighted field; from a very well shaded shooting rang (i.e. ones with boards to prevent shooting over the top of the back stop ...)[green] to a target in full sun.[/green] Regards John Edited to correct typos, which are in green
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 2:34:44 PM EDT
Maybe the 'problem' with Reflex's is just a matter of some people's eyes being more sensitive to the color of Amber than others? I haven't had too much of an issue with it, and the pic posted above is pretty acceptable to me. No, it isn't lit like a powered unit but given the advantages, it's an acceptable tradeoff to me. And there are tradeoffs with every optics choice-you have to remember what the Reflex was meant for: moving and shooting-not hiding in the dark sniping at distance at bright target areas. Can this be a 'limitation'? Sure, but as with most things, a little practice and *giving your eyes a chance to get accustomed to the dark* will go a long ways. When I first got it, I was a little disheartened from the washout 'problem'. The range I shoot at has covered benches and the targets they supply are a yellow/pink/brown that doesn't agree with the Reflex's amber reticle. I had a hard time finding the tip of the reticle, but it's not a problem for me now when I go. Your mileage will vary-I recommended what worked for me. Dave
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 2:50:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 4:59:52 PM EDT by Troy]

Originally Posted By DaveCampbell1:
Maybe the 'problem' with Reflex's is just a matter of some people's eyes being more sensitive to the color of Amber than others? I haven't had too much of an issue with it, and the pic posted above is pretty acceptable to me. No, it isn't lit like a powered unit but given the advantages, it's an acceptable tradeoff to me.



You are right with the eye difference, but the Reflex do have its share of the problems that is why Trijicon is trying to correct them with the Tri-Power or offering the cylume stick upgrade Reflex. even the military have abandon the reflex and gone to either the Reflex or EOTech.


Originally Posted By DaveCampbell1:
And there are tradeoffs with every optics choice-you have to remember what the Reflex was meant for: moving and shooting-not hiding in the dark sniping at distance at bright target areas. Can this be a 'limitation'?


This is especially true when it come to CQB style fighting, when you move and shoot you enter environments that vary, light, low light, orange street light if a target pops up, you might have to take a shot from zero to 50 yards. if the reticle is faint to pick up, they will cost you precious seconds in getting that shot off. any problem you encounter while in that mode can be deadly. no one is sitting in a corner camping and waiting. but sometime you might come up to a target at low light condition out pass a hundred yards, what do you do then, make that first count or try to engage the target and hope to hit it on the first try??


Originally Posted By DaveCampbell1:
Sure, but as with most things, a little practice and *giving your eyes a chance to get accustomed to the dark* will go a long ways.



A little practice is good but the deficiency is too great to overcome when there are better optics on the market in Aimpoint or EOTech.
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