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Posted: 7/16/2003 11:40:56 AM EDT
It seems that 99% of the talk about modular rail systems around here revolves around KAC and SIR. Then, every once in a while somebody mentions the M33, M44, or FIRSH. Just curious why there isn't more useage of the FIRSH system. The one issue that I have with the FIRSH is that it is only free floating and I've yet to attempt the instalation of such a device. Still, the FIRSH is $100 vs $350-$400 for the SIR or KAC.

So why choose SIR or KAC over the FIRSH?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 12:15:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 12:16:25 PM EDT by Yojimbo]
I'm sure the FIRSH is a good unit but I prefer SIR because... 1. It can be installed by a retarded monkey![;)] No special tools, no removal of flash suppressor, front sight, delta ring, etc.. 2. I can remove the the lower portion of the hand guard to access the barrel for cleaning, mount a M203, etc. [img]http://a8.cpimg.com/image/28/C7/19917608-5942-02000180-.jpg[/img] 3. Removable rails. 4. Cools better, see new_arguys cooling tests. Just my 2 cents not everyone will agree but that's OK. [8D]
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 12:18:32 PM EDT
Because basically its a redo of the old match aluminum handguard with the addition of picatinny rails. Its fragile and has piss poor cooling capabilities. For someone that doesnt see the potential for beating their gun around or putting a high round count through it in a short single session, it'll work fine. The SIR and the RAS are serious use, military-grade systems.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 12:42:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 12:58:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By venturini: Still, the FIRSH is $100 vs $350-$400 for the SIR or KAC. So why choose SIR or KAC over the FIRSH?
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[red][size=4]TANSTAAFL![/size=4][/red] -Troy
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There Ain't No Such Thing As A FIRSH Lover?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:23:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:21:08 PM EDT
[b]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Because basically its a redo of the old match aluminum handguard with the addition of picatinny rails. Its fragile and has piss poor cooling capabilities. For someone that doesnt see the potential for beating their gun around or putting a high round count through it in a short single session, it'll work fine. The SIR and the RAS are serious use, military-grade systems.
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[/b] If you don't mind, what exactly are you referring to by "serious use, military-grade systems?" Not trying to flame you, or anyone else here, but I'm kinda curious. The reason I ask is that I've been active-duty for the last 9-years in the Infantry, served on three different continents, and in every type of weather/climate imagineable and I cannot recall ever beating my rifle around to the point where damage is likely. Not even close. Also, don't be fooled simply by the fact that some particular piece of equipment is USGI, or mil-spec. I've seen just as much gear that could be classified as "outright failures" as I have equipment that actually performs as claimed, or better. Simple fact of the matter, unfortunately, ol' Uncle Sam gets suckered into buying all kinds of crap from manufacturers that have only one thing in mind, and that is the almighty dollar - period. Now, I'm not saying that I don't like the KAC set-ups, they are great, but I also like my FIRSH rail handguard, if for nothing else, the plain fact that it floats the barrel (the only reason I saw to replace the factory handguard). If I was stepping into a combat zone, I would not feel inadequate with a FIRSH-equipped M4, in fact, it would probably be the furthest thing from my mind.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:48:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fizassist: There Ain't No Such Thing As A FIRSH Lover?
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But WHY?!!!
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 8:33:46 PM EDT
read the threads on the link below, you can make up your own mind about Firsh. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=147348[/url] NewARGuy did an excellent job on this review, why not find your answer there instead of debating it here.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:39:07 PM EDT
I use both, the FIRSH, and the RAS II, and I can tell you it's like comparing a Honda to a Ferrari. Yes, they will both get you where you need to go, but which one would you rather drive?
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:53:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: read the threads on the link below, you can make up your own mind about Firsh. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=147348[/url] NewARGuy did an excellent job on this review, why not find your answer there instead of debating it here.
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Well, dang it all [>:/] I was sure that I had checked the back pages well enough but I guess I was looking in the wrong subforum for this and my mind didn't notice it when I was reading the back pages of the barrels etc. pages. It's too bad that we newbies can't see further back (like 3 months worth) but that would require a lot more storage space and several more computers so..... It does seems though that certain questions do get asked over and over again (hey, don't look at me...I tried to find it on my own first [:(!] ) so maybe within a month all the basic questions will be adressed well enough. Thanks again for the link.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 6:03:21 AM EDT
Personally, I own 4 FIRSHes (a Long Carbine on my .458, Carbine on my .300 whisper & .223, and Shorty on my 9mm SBR) I got those for a little more than the cost of a 1 RAS (II) or SIR. I had a SIR and liked it, but it seemed (is?) heavier than the FIRSH and I didn't like the whole upper reciever rail being raised. Maybe I would like the RAS II better, but I am very happy with the FIRSHes. I am not "high speed". I do not jump out of airplanes (with a rifle). I have a hard time envisioning a situation where I could hurt my FIRSH. Cooling is another issue, but I don't shoot FA.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 6:28:35 PM EDT
I have installed and used a carbine length FIRSH. Compared to other free float tubes it is very simple installation yet works very well. I think it would be difficult to break it. I suspect the main thing working aginst it is that it isn't USGI issue. I took mine off because I decide to save some weight and I don't really need to clamp a bunch of crap on a carbine to plink.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 6:39:21 PM EDT
Well I like mine. Does everything I need it to do without the $350-400 price tag. I do like the fact that the top rail is even with the flat top receiver also.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:32:41 PM EDT
It serves my purposes. I couldn't get locking bolt tight enough that it wouldn't spin. But my 38ex took care of that as it slips over the firsh rails a little. It is extruded aliminum so it shouldn't crack easily. Got a Dieter forward grip that should block excessive heating with its deep cooling fins. Feels nice and I wanted free floating. The main reason to go with the sir and ras systems in my opinion is if your mounting an optic over the rail or using military setups that require that modularity.
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