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Posted: 7/13/2003 9:42:59 PM EDT
My friend has an ACOG made by Hakko, I think.
I was wondering what yall think about'em.
Do they work ? He said he paid $250. for his.

Fenster.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 10:01:42 PM EDT
AIRSOFT?
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 10:08:34 PM EDT
I have seen airsoft copies of the TA-01 and the TA-11. It's amazing how closely they resemble the real thing.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 3:20:20 AM EDT
Resemble in appearance or function?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 3:35:29 AM EDT
The airsoft knock-offs do not have tritium, so you're paying about half the cost of a used ACOG for a knock-off that isn't designed for rifle recoil and isn't useful in low light. It's a question of whether you want something that was made for (and is warranteed for) use on a high power rifle in all lighting conditions or something that [i]looks[/i] like an ACOG. In the latter case, you might as well just get an airsoft instead of a real steel AR. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 4:04:36 AM EDT
I had one I used on a dedicated 22 rimfire M4gery. Worked very well in that application. I would not use it on anything higher powered or for any appllication other than plinking, etc. Ed
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:12:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ducati650: I had one I used on a dedicated 22 rimfire M4gery. Worked very well in that application. I would not use it on anything higher powered or for any appllication other than plinking, etc. Ed
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How are the optics? Does it hold zero well in that application? Is the body aluminum? Thanks, fiz
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:53:11 AM EDT
Body is aluminum. Mount is interchangeable with real mounts, including the #19S from ARMS. It held zero pretty well for 22 RF use. Zeroing was a PITA until I realized the arrows are backwards. Up was down, right was left. Other than that, it was fine for a 22 if you wanted the ACOG, NSN look. It had the back-up irons but no tritium.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:12:15 AM EDT
Didn't you have the airsoft ANPAQ4 on your M4gery as well, Ducati? How was that? I'm assuming you put a real laser in the airsoft unit. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:39:44 AM EDT
I sold both the Airsoft ACOG and PEQ2a to help fund my SPR project. Ed
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 12:22:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Resemble in appearance or function?
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I've only seen pictures, but side by side, they look pretty close. There's so much airsoft crap out there, it's not even funny.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:56:12 PM EDT
Save up for a REAL Acog..Nuff said
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:24:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 7:27:03 PM EDT by tony_k]
Umm ... I hate to tell ya, guys, but Hakko makes all the real ACOGs for Trijicon, too. Hakko's a pretty big optical company and they manufacture for many makers -- they did the line of scopes that Beeman used to sell, and the SS2 I've got is as clear and sharp as a Leopold. That said, Hakko also manufactures to the spex demanded by the contract. So while their ACOGs are made with top lenses to tight tolerances, I doubt they bother to invest that much time and effort in Airsoft scopes. And the lower price is a good indicator. So rather than real versus knockoff here, we're talking V6 Camaro versus Z28. And we know which one wins the race.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:28:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 9:31:45 PM EDT by Slash]
Originally Posted By fizassist: ... you might as well just get an airsoft instead of a [red]real steel AR[/red].
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[LOLabove]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 11:43:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tony_k: Umm ... I hate to tell ya, guys, but Hakko makes all the real ACOGs for Trijicon, too. Hakko's a pretty big optical company and they manufacture for many makers -- they did the line of scopes that Beeman used to sell, and the SS2 I've got is as clear and sharp as a Leopold. That said, Hakko also manufactures to the spex demanded by the contract. So while their ACOGs are made with top lenses to tight tolerances, I doubt they bother to invest that much time and effort in Airsoft scopes. And the lower price is a good indicator. So rather than real versus knockoff here, we're talking V6 Camaro versus Z28. And we know which one wins the race.
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According to Trijicon, they make their own scopes. No one else makes them for them. Unless this had changed in the recent past.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:04:41 AM EDT
I know for sure they make Springfield scopes as well.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:19:53 AM EDT
Umm ... I hate to tell ya, guys, but Hakko makes all the real ACOGs for Trijicon, too.
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What is your source for that? As noted above, Trijicon claims otherwise.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 9:14:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 9:18:25 AM EDT by tony_k]
Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts:
Umm ... I hate to tell ya, guys, but Hakko makes all the real ACOGs for Trijicon, too.
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What is your source for that? As noted above, Trijicon claims otherwise.
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Yeah, my TA47 has "MADE IN USA" cast into the housing. But I ran into this issue a coupla years ago and I was convinced by the postings and by the following web sources: [url]http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh/scope.html[/url] This guy has a lot of excellent detailed info in his brand comparison section, and all of the other "surprises" I found they also checked out as true when I researched them. Next, a look at one of Hakko's own web pages: [url]http://www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/japan/item/scope/scope19.htm[/url] Yes, I know the text on the page is in Japanese. (I had a buddy translate it for me at the time; in his translation, they say they make them.) But note the English sections talk about the BAC and the reticles illustrated are true tritium-element designs. Finally, going to the Hakko home page (root found above) and browsing both their Japanese and English-version sites, I was convinced. Could you share a source for Trijicon claiming that they make ACOGs in-house? I'm always willing to be swayed by better proof.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:39:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 11:57:15 AM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
Could you share a source for Trijicon claiming that they make ACOGs in-house? I'm always willing to be swayed by better proof.
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Well aside from the "Made in the USA" casted into the housing, I called Trijicon and asked them (Amy in Customer Service 1-800-338-0563). I had seen the same links you had so I asked them and was told that they were absolutely 100% made in the USA at their plant in Michigan. I also asked if they were distributed overseas through other dealers, thinking maybe Hakko had distribution rights since they list the product under the Trijicon name. Trijicon said they handled all overseas distribution directly and not through other manufacturers. Finally, I pointed them to the websites you mentioned and they categorically stated that Trijicon scopes are made in the USA - no ifs, ands or buts. My guess is that the scopes listed on the Hakko website are Airsoft versions. As for the reticles shown and the Bindon Aiming Concept in English, I've seen similar things on dozens of Airsoft pages in Chinese and Japanese even though the items in question were clearly Airsoft. In fact, check out this [url=216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:2DFX574d9owJ:www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/+Airsoft+TA11&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]English language Airsoft ad[/url]: "The new G&P ACOG 3.5x35 Scope with Red Chevron replica is a copy of the Trijicon TA11. The real ACOG 3.5x35 riflescope has the Bindon Aiming Concept as a standard feature - this allows traditional long distance marksmanship while providing for the ultimate in close-combat transitional aiming. On the real thing the red dot with a hole in, is illuminated red all the time glowing red at night from tritium and red during the day from the fiber optic system. RRP for the G&P unit is 158USD" I mean after all, if Hakko really made the ACOG why would they call it the ACOG or emblazon Trijicon's name prominently on the website? My second guess would be that the person at charms.net saw the Hakko website and jumped to conclusions. EDITED TO ADD: One other thing, did you notice that the referenced webpage isn't connected to any other webpage on Hakko's website - Japanese or English?
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:51:43 AM EDT
Don't believe everything you read coming out of Asia. As an example, unless a US trademark and patent is registered in Japan as well, they won't honor it. If the trijicon patent and trademark isn't registered there, under Japanese law, somebody can manufacture a copy (of whatever quality) and put all of the trijicon markings on it, even the name. Perfectly legal in Japan. Never mind all the pirating that goes on in both Chinas, etc.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:08:20 PM EDT
B_R, you are convincing me. (Plus, every source I have checked to buttress my argument instead turns out to support yours). From personal experience I have a distrust of large corporations and their claims, and there are just too many documented cases of U.S. firms moving their production abroad (or, as I thought here, subcontracted abroad). Given that I have other Hakko-made optics that are of great quality, I took the Shooting Sports web page info at face value (translation: I bought it hook, line and sinker). Add one point to your win column. I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:34:44 PM EDT
From personal experience I have a distrust of large corporations and their claims, and there are just too many documented cases of U.S. firms moving their production abroad (or, as I thought here, subcontracted abroad).
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Well, still no saying with 100% certainty I guess, although Trijicon has always dealt squarely with me in the past and I've always found their customer service people knowledgable, so I'm inclined to trust their word on the issue - though I've certainly spoken to other customer service reps who weren't aware of everything going on at the company.
Add one point to your win column. I stand corrected.
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The way I look at it, anytime we can share info and learn something new everybody gets a point in the win column.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 10:20:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By H3At: Save up for a REAL Acog..Nuff said
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Mega Dittos H3at, and to add to that: Having a real ACOG adds both the look AND function. If money is tight simply get better with the iron sights and then truly impress everyone with a "plain jane" AR. Being whats commonly called a "rich single NCO" I gots the money to throw at toys but I usually manage to qualify expert with them ol' iron sights so it's not like an ACOG is needed to get the job done. Make it real if even only you know the difference. Bill Paradise
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:30:18 AM EDT
Tony and Bart, finely done gentelman. Finely done indeed.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:14:05 AM EDT
Could you share a source for Trijicon claiming that they make ACOGs in-house? I'm always willing to be swayed by better proof.
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To add to what B_R has so eloquently stated: From the latest Trijicon catalog- "The finest optical design, 100% U.S.-made. ACOG... the ultimate telescopic sight.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 11:20:40 AM EDT
With the recent price jacking by SWFA and/or Trijicon, I hope we're going to see some alternatives on the market soon. Competition of any kind drives down prices. I've seen in the past that many companies are.. reluctant... to disclose their foreign manufacturing arrangements. Also, Japan is very much a first world country (perhaps moreso) and patent rights in the US are a concern.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 12:37:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts: In fact, check out this [url=216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:2DFX574d9owJ:www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/beta/html/+Airsoft+TA11&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]English language Airsoft ad[/url]
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That site made me sick! Airsoft truly is the epitome of "Bling-Bling"! What a waste...[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 9:32:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Not_A_Llama: With the recent price jacking by SWFA and/or Trijicon, I hope we're going to see some alternatives on the market soon. Competition of any kind drives down prices.
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Some additional supply would help drop prices too. I was hoping they would start releasing more scopes to dealers ...which in theory would keep the prices from climbing so fast. BTW, if you think SWFA is bad, there's another 4-lettered company who's a dealler here that asking full retail ....$1295 for a TA11! I won't name names, but you [b]M[/b]ight a[b]S[/b]k me to [b]T[/b]ell you [b]N[/b]ow.
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