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Posted: 5/19/2003 9:24:06 AM EDT
which do you all prefer and why? co-witness or absolute co-witness?
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 10:48:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 1:01:09 PM EDT
co witness is where the iron do not intersect witht he red dot, so the iron can appear in the lower 25% of the optic window, where as absolute co-witness is the red dot right on top of the iron. I can take either, it doesn't really make a difference to me. but do prefer my iron sitting on the lower 25% of the window.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 3:38:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 9:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/19/2003 9:22:04 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Troy, I am talking the same thing. just my english skill are not as skillful. [:)] Aimpoint setup is co-witness and EOTech flatop mount is the absolute co-witness.
Link Posted: 5/19/2003 11:53:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 12:37:34 AM EDT
By this definition, I also prefer 'co-witness' (using Aimpoint/RAS2).
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 12:43:28 AM EDT
Can anyone explain what the purpose of "absolute" co-witness would be? Chris
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:42:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: So, by "absolute cowitness", you mean that the irons are *centered* in the view of the optic? Forgive me if it's taking a little to long to sink into my thick skull... [:)] If that's the case, then MY preference is NOT for "absolute cowitness", as I prefer the irons to be in the bottom 3rd of the optic, which makes them mostly disappear when using the optic normally by looking OVER the rear sight. -Troy
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Troy, you are ABSOLUTELY correct. I alos prefer just the co-witness, but with EOTech, it is the absolute co-witness or nothing on a flat top. unless they are planning on making a new mount for it.... hmmmm could that be possible??
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:01:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:45:28 PM EDT
Thanks Troy .... your explanation makes perfectly good sense. I was wondering if someone was (is?) going to explain to me that it's desirable to have both the front sight post AND the rear aperture directly in the middle of the optic field of view; [i]rear sight-optic aiming point-front sight[/i] .... sight alignment from HELL. Chris
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:51:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: I alos prefer just the co-witness, but with EOTech, it is the absolute co-witness or nothing on a flat top. unless they are planning on making a new mount for it.... hmmmm could that be possible??
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SMGLee, have you thought about an ARMS #19A with an EOTech? That is a much lower mount than the #38, #40, etc. I wonder how well that would work to raise the EOTech a little?
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:38:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: If that's the case, then MY preference is NOT for "absolute cowitness"
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You can have your Absolut. I prefer Stolichnaya CoWitness. 551 on the rocks[;)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:01:43 PM EDT
one of the reasons that i recall hearing somewhere (and it makes some sort of sense) for an 'absolute co-witness' with an aimpoint is that if the aimpoint dot fails, and you're at CQB/very close distances (where the use of a small rear sight aperture *might* be a bit difficult or slow) - by centering the front sight in the aimpoint the tube can actually be used as a very large 'ghost ring' for quick shots. cheers, MM
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:12:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kisara:
Originally Posted By Troy: If that's the case, then MY preference is NOT for "absolute cowitness"
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You can have your Absolut. I prefer Stolichnaya CoWitness. 551 on the rocks[;)]
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[lol]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:01:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By militarymoron: one of the reasons that i recall hearing somewhere (and it makes some sort of sense) for an 'absolute co-witness' with an aimpoint is that if the aimpoint dot fails, and you're at CQB/very close distances (where the use of a small rear sight aperture *might* be a bit difficult or slow) - by centering the front sight in the aimpoint the tube can actually be used as a very large 'ghost ring' for quick shots. cheers, MM
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I can see what you're saying IF .... you had a flip-up rear sight. If not, everytime you sight through the optic, you're looking through the iron sights too. A [i]very[/i] cluttered sight picture. For me, having the front sight assembly in the optic field of view is an acceptable compromise. But I can't see myself being able to use the optic effectively if the rear sight aperture is also in the way, as in iron sights [b]centered[/b] in the optic field of view. Chris
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:33:40 AM EDT
OK guys, i have my dot set so you can look through the rear peep and see the red dot on the top tip of the front sight post. when the front sights are not visible such as in a dark room this allowas me to allways know where my sight is. i can pop my head up and just use the dot which appears over the sights at that point. is this set up wrong? if it is wrong, it sure does work real efficiently.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:55:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Ready_223: OK guys, i have my dot set so you can look through the rear peep and see the red dot on the top tip of the front sight post. when the front sights are not visible such as in a dark room this allowas me to allways know where my sight is. i can pop my head up and just use the dot which appears over the sights at that point. is this set up wrong? if it is wrong, it sure does work real efficiently.
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Good 1x optics will be parallax free. That means that no matter where the dot is in the glass (top, side, center, etc), it is still basically aimed at the same point. To verify this, put the dot in the center of the glass and notice where it lands. If you move your head up, down, left, or right, the dot should still be on target, even though it is no longer in the center of the glass. To recap the discussion above: Obviously, you want the red dot to point at the same spot as the iron sights. So if they are zeroed to the same spot, the red dot will always be on the tip of the front sight when you look through the rear sight. The only question, then is whether you want have the irons directly in the center of your field of view through the scope (we're calling this "absolute co-witnessing" in this thread) or in the bottom 1/3 or 1/4 of the glass. The latter arrangement is still co-witnessed, but it gives you a much better field of view through your optic. The dot will still be on target whether you look through the iron sights or the center of the tube; otherwise a dot sight is pretty pointless. (no pun intended [;)]) If you have the irons in the center of glass and you're happy with it, more power to you. I used to do that, but I'm much happier with the irons lower and a better field of view.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:09:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mrcr0603: I can see what you're saying IF .... you had a flip-up rear sight. If not, everytime you sight through the optic, you're looking through the iron sights too. Chris
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i agree completely - i should have clarified -thanks for bringing that up. yes, it was assumed that you have a flip-up rear so that it is NOT in the way when using the tube as a 'ghost ring'. my personal preference is flip-up front and rear sights for the least cluttered sight picture, so where the line of sight falls in the tube is a moot point for me :-P cheers! MM
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 1:05:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fizassist:
Originally Posted By Combat_Ready_223: OK guys, i have my dot set so you can look through the rear peep and see the red dot on the top tip of the front sight post. when the front sights are not visible such as in a dark room this allowas me to allways know where my sight is. i can pop my head up and just use the dot which appears over the sights at that point. is this set up wrong? if it is wrong, it sure does work real efficiently.
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Good 1x optics will be parallax free. That means that no matter where the dot is in the glass (top, side, center, etc), it is still basically aimed at the same point. To verify this, put the dot in the center of the glass and notice where it lands. If you move your head up, down, left, or right, the dot should still be on target, even though it is no longer in the center of the glass. To recap the discussion above: Obviously, you want the red dot to point at the same spot as the iron sights. So if they are zeroed to the same spot, the red dot will always be on the tip of the front sight when you look through the rear sight. The only question, then is whether you want have the irons directly in the center of your field of view through the scope (we're calling this "absolute co-witnessing" in this thread) or in the bottom 1/3 or 1/4 of the glass. The latter arrangement is still co-witnessed, but it gives you a much better field of view through your optic. The dot will still be on target whether you look through the iron sights or the center of the tube; otherwise a dot sight is pretty pointless. (no pun intended [;)]) If you have the irons in the center of glass and you're happy with it, more power to you. I used to do that, but I'm much happier with the irons lower and a better field of view.
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Now THAT'S a reply worth repeating. Chris
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 1:45:38 PM EDT
I GUESS IT WOULDA HELPED TO TELL U GUYS THE RIFLE HAS A CARRY HANDLE. SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:05:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Combat_Ready_223: I GUESS IT WOULDA HELPED TO TELL U GUYS THE RIFLE HAS A CARRY HANDLE. SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION
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The principle(s) still apply. The AR that I use for the pics in this thread that Troy referred to .... [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=157273[/url] .... is also an A2 (carry handle). Chris
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 10:40:32 AM EDT
thanks for all your replies i appreciate the feedback and the help.
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