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Posted: 10/8/2002 10:39:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2002 5:36:13 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
Since I don't have a ton of money to throw around in buying a scope fore every concievable application, I was trying to think of a scope that could be used effectively at medium to, maybe, long distances (i.e. 300 yds to, say, 500 yds).

I was looking into buying a Leupold VXII 3x9x40 or a VXIII 3.5x10x40, but then started to really think about these choices.

I then started to do some research on the ACOGs (TA-11 AND TA-31)and began to wonder whether these scopes could also double as a precision scope. It seems that the ACOGS offer a lot more versatility than a Leupold,which is intended primarily for a precision tactical role. I know that the ACOGs are probably not meant for "marksmanship" work (don't want to use the "word" the media is throwing around now-a-days because I may cause some undue panic!) as the Leupolds, but from reading posts here it would appear that they could do a decent job.

I guess what I'm trying to do is to justify the cost of an ACOG by saying that not only can it be used as a semi-close combat optic in a fast moving environment but that it can also fill a precision-type role?

What do you guys think?
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 12:21:52 PM EDT
You might want to look at the Accupoint line that Trijicon offers. They give a variable magnification and cost a bit less than the ACOGs. The trade off would appear to be that the Accupoint is more of hunter's scope rather than a rugged combat scope.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 1:07:18 PM EDT
Depends on the ACOG I guess. Which model were you contemplating?

My peronal opinion is that the BAC-equipped ACOGs are the only ones that are more useful than irons for fast shooting at less than 75yds.

Link Posted: 10/8/2002 4:14:21 PM EDT
I own both ACOGs and Leo M1 scopes. The ACOG is an excellent combat scope for short to medium range distances. The triangle “dot” allows greater precision IMHO. However, the ACOG is not a scope for a precision rifle. What type of rifle is the scope for? For shooting beyond 200 yrds I would recommend at least a 10x scope for any type of precision work. The 3.5-10x Leo is a good scope, and a better choice if you intend on shooting at ranges up to 300-500yrds, especially if it is to be mated with a very accurate rifle.

Link Posted: 10/8/2002 5:42:00 PM EDT
Well, in the near future I want to put together an SPR-type upper together. Right now, I only have 16" uppers, which are going to be decked out in CQB trim.

I don't really have much experience with long range shooting. At the range I frequent, 300 yds is the max distance we have. I can hit the metal plate with iron sights consistently, but I want to start getting into more precision shooting at that range and, say, up to 500 yds.
That's why I know I'm going to have to put together some kind of 20" upper with a 1x8 or 1x7 twist to handle those heavier bullets.

ALAN, which ACOG do you have and how do you like it?
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 6:53:55 PM EDT
I have a TA11C on an ar10, a heavy scope (but very good one) on a heavy rifle. It has a donut reticle, which I don’t like. I also have a TA31A with a triangle reticle on an ar15 Bushy flattop 16in., which I really like. The Leo M1 is on a precision (match stainless barrel) rifle.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 7:36:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlanD:
I have a TA11C on an ar10, a heavy scope (but very good one) on a heavy rifle. It has a donut reticle, which I don’t like. I also have a TA31A with a triangle reticle on an ar15 Bushy flattop 16in., which I really like. The Leo M1 is on a precision (match stainless barrel) rifle.



I was thinking about the chevron reticle if and when I purchase an ACOG scope.

How does your ACOG do on the long distance shots conidering the triangle covers up large portion of the target at extended ranges? It's probably better suited for shorter distances, right?

Link Posted: 10/8/2002 9:00:24 PM EDT
The doughnut part of thr reticle is used for shooting below 300 meters. Beneath is another fine vertical aiming mark with crossbars for ranges from 400 to 800 meters. As accurate as any crosshair.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 11:39:05 PM EDT
I just bought a TA 31F from AZ Gunrunners and was very happy with it in my first 3 gun shoot. The cheveron makes an easy to use fast acqusition site and should be very good for 1/2 metre targets at 300 metres.

The 4x scope has severe limitations for precision shooting at distance, though, since you can't see enough detail at long range to aim accurately. I can aim my 700 PSS with a Leupold 10x VXIII witin about 3" of true centre at 700 metres, while I would be lucky to place my TA31F within 3" at 200 metres.

If you can't place the scope precisely on the target, you can't place the shot. Nothing does everything well. All choices are compomises. For what it's worth.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 7:43:33 AM EDT
The ACOGs are capable, but their reticles are designed more for speed than percision. This does not mean you CANT be accurate with them. Only that it will take more concentration and effort on the shooters part. I have a TA31 with the donut reticle. It is the least accurate of all the reticles. However, I have achieved sub-moa groups at 100, 200 and 300 yards. Also was able to make headshot size shots at 450 during the BRC. Doing so with a cross hair type scope would have been easier. However, if I had a cross hair set up, I'd be sacrificing A LOT of speed and durability, adding extra size and weight, etc. I believe the ACOG will serve you quite well.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 4:27:01 PM EDT
urbankaos04, the triangle reticle works better than a round/donut reticle for medium distance precision shots because you can place the target so it sits just above (and touches) the top point of the triangle. For rapid, close range, less precise shots you place the triangle over the target. I don’t like the donut because at medium distances, before the cross hairs below the donut become useful, you have to place the target within the center of the donut, which partly obscures your target, and provides a less precise POA than the tip of the triangle.
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