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Posted: 9/14/2002 10:38:25 AM EDT

I have a new clark custom gator ar with a flat top...I want the best quality optics that I can afford (say up to $800)..I like both the aimpoint and the acog. But trijicon has a million different models and I'm not sure witch on would suit me best..
I want to shoot close range out to 200 yards.
I would like the option of some magnification...maybe 3 or 4 power...what do you guys think...
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:42:25 AM EDT
I've tried a lot and own what I like best including Aimpoint, Reflex, and ACOGs. All are great optics, all have advantages and disadvantages over the other.

My favorite all around optic is the Trijicon ACOG TA31 series. There was a 2 page discussion about this a week or so ago. Check it out...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=139306
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 11:24:46 AM EDT
thanks, I read all of the posts on the topic...and really like what has been said about the acog ta31f (I think)...I'm not sure if I would like the chevron though.?? any thoughts..are there any different reticle options...what is the price range also...thanks again.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 5:38:37 PM EDT
For 0-200 yards, I definately prefer the Aimpoint. Magnification is unecessary for anything bigger than a coyote at those ranges. With a red dot, you don't have to worry about eye relief or cheek weld, and you can hit the target faster.

I'd only get the ACOG if I was planning on shooting farther away.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 6:27:49 PM EDT
Donut reticle

The donut is pretty much designed for speed. Dont make the mistake of thinking the donut is not accurate. It is and I have achieved sub-moa groups at 100, 200 and 300 yards with this reticle. Because of the round reticle, it takes a little more concentration and focus, but it is surely capable of excellent accuracy. The donut is my favorite of the reticles, but this is merely bewcause it suits my shooting prefferences best. Another shooter, with different prefferences, will easily take another reticle, and for their style shooting it will be better. Here are some things I like about the donut. It is very quick. The top of the donut is your 100 yard zero, the center hole is your 200 yard zero, the bottom line it your 300 yard zero and after 300 yards, you can use the stadia lines inder the donut.


Triangle reticle

The triangle is my least favorite of the reticles. Its a nice, big, solid reticle, which means it will glow the brightest of all your choices. This could possibly lead to being able to use the BAC a little faster, I'm not sure though. The triangle has a nice apex at the top. This is something the donut lacks. This tip of the triangle can be used to achieve greater potential accuracy with a little less effort than the donut. However, it is a big solid retice, and it will cover a lot of your target at longer ranges, and has no refference points for hold over from ranges betweem 100-300 yards.

Chevron reticle

This is my second favorite reticle. It wont be as fast as either of the other two, because it is the finest of all of them. Therefore it will glow less brightly, making the BAC a little slower. However, what you gain is the same apex of the triangle, making your potential accuracy a simpler task. It also will not cover up the target like the triangle. You can also use the bottom of the chevron for range estimation. The area between the two legs of the upside down V is 5.3 MOA... the same width of an average human torso at 300 meters.

A few more things. The TA31F (chevron reticle) comes standard with the TA51 flat top mount. This makes it a little more expensive. The TA31 and TA31A only come with the carry handle mount. However, you can mount ANY ACOG on any flat top or carry handle. You just have to use the correct mount.

Also, the reticle on the TA31F is callibrated to be used on a flat top upper with a 14.5" barrel. The reticle on the TA31 and TA31A are callibrated to be used on a 20" carry handle upper with a 20" barrel. Some poeple make a BIG deal about this and feel if they have a flat top 14.5" barrel, they have to get the TA31F. The fact is, it matters very little until you start getting way out there, say past 400 yards. And even if you do, who cares if your point of impact doesnt correspond with the marker on the reticle? Just shoot the gun, and make notes of where it is hitting.

Last thing. These are not pick up and master type optics. they take getting used to. You have to learn their features, what they do and how they work. You have to put some time in behind the glass before you get to really know whats going on and how it all functions. But once you do, they are pretty fantastic. You will be in love.

The member who said the Aimpoint would be better for a 200 yard gun could be correct. Aimpoint is a fantastic optic. I have one of these as well and I simply love it. There is not a faster or more simple dot sight to use. Pick it up, turn it on, and you are good to go. However, its simplicity is also a limitation. There is no magnification and it has a simple dot reticle. Great for speed and ease of use, but you cant go much beyond that. The ACOGs with BAC have all of that, and much more. Once you get used to it, know how it works, and how to work it, you have an optic atop your rifle that can really expand the usefullness and capability of the rifle.

Sorry for the long post... I do love these optics!
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 6:34:57 PM EDT
The Aimpoint is really what would serve you best. Quick shots on moving targets out to a couple hundred yards.

The Trijicon ACOG's are meant for more careful slower shots at ranges where iron sights are difficult to use.

With the ACOG's choose a size first - either compact or full size, then a magnifiation from 1.5x up to 4x, and then a retical.

I went with a compact, 3x with crosshairs and the BAC and added the scope to the rifle that complements my M-4 carbine with the Aimpoint Comp ML on it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 7:54:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2002 7:58:48 PM EDT by MaverickMkii]
Excellent post New-arguy.

For the ranges you mentioned, I'd definetely pick Aimpoint or Compact ACOG. No offense to full ACOG, but I don't think it will shine in such distance. Aimpoint and mini ACOGs will only do better because they are lighter and cheaper.

I've been using Aimpoint for a while now and I can definetely say that it helps a lot in rapid-aimed-semi-auto-fire upto 200 meters. It won't let you shoot any better though - irons can be used to achieve same or better accuracy, but it will let you shoot quicker and the ability to clearly see your target before squeezing the trigger.

I haven't used BAC yet, but all I hear is praises about them. Based on that, I would say that their effective ranges are -

Aimpoint
1.0x 0 ~ 200 meters / no eye relief
Compact ACOG
1.5x16/24 0 ~ 250 meters / 2.4 or 3.6
2.0x20 25 ~ 300 meters / 2.1
3.0x24 25 ~ 400 meters / 1.4
ACOG
3.5x35 25 ~ 500 meters / 2.4
4.0x32 25 ~ 600 meters / 1.5

This is based on nothing but my gut feeling...but I think most of it is quite close to true because I've heard much about these scopes. I'm sure you can employ them anywhere you want but that's pretty much what I think about it. Another thing to remember -

Weight of mini ACOG = approx 5.3 ~ 5.9 oz
Aimpoint = approx 7.7 oz
TA11 ACOG = approx 14 oz
TA31 ACOG = approx 9.9 oz
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 3:27:04 PM EDT

Thanks guys..I think I will go with the aimpoint ...It sounds exactly what I want right now ..maybe an acog next time ..the price difference is also a big plus for me..thanks again....
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