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Posted: 9/10/2002 11:41:57 AM EDT
Im hung up in a dilemma of equipping my Bushy 20" A3 with some type of optics. Id love to mount an ACOG but im having trouble justifying the price, Same goes for an ELCAN. Im not concerned for CQB so I just am looking for something of good quality that will allow me to quickly acquire and reach out and touch someone.

I suppose with a few good quick detach mounts I could Have a decent long range scope, and a Night vision scope for the same price as an ACOG.


What is your reccomendations? Thanks
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 11:47:49 AM EDT
Take a look at the Nikon 4.5-14x40 buckmaster ($250 @ SWFA.com).

Or if you're spending more, take a look at the leupold line, but on a budget that Nikon will be perfect.

What magnification range are you looking for?
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 12:02:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2002 12:14:46 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Nikon would be an excellent choice, I would also recommand Leupold VX2 tactcail scope with target knobs. This scope is build with economy in mind for smaller dept whom can't spend a thousand dollars on a precision scope, but the quality of the less expensive scope is still first rate. it is a 3-9x40 with an 1 inch tube. This is an excellent choice at 318 dollars for duplex, and 389 for mil-dot reticle. also available from www.SWFA.com

ACOG is great for close in to 300m, the Leupold or Nikon will help you reach out and touch someone. Stay away from Elcon, heavy and not very good at retaining zero.

For a great qucik detach mount and ring combo, i would look into getting the ARMS set up. this would be the #21 ring with #35QD throw lever mount. This combo will give you the ability to quickly detach your scope or attach the scope with out the lost of zero. This is also the set up prefer with the SPR project used by the go fast boys over sea. check with Wes at www.MSTN.biz for price and availability. I think this setup will be about 150 dollars, this will bring your grand total with a Leupold Tactical 3-9x40 scope to about 470 dollars. by the way, using the ARMS ring, you will need a 30mm adapter, which is another 25 dollars. I figure for around 500 dollars, you will have a very awesome set up. this is about 30% cheaper then buying a ACOG.
Link Posted: 9/10/2002 1:42:22 PM EDT
You do get what you pay for. You won't get a "decent long range scope, and a Night vision scope" for the price of an ACOG.

Additionally, most scopes are overkill for the realistic shooting range of the AR-15. Don't get me wrong, I've got a Tasco Super Sniper M 10X on my 24" Vmatch but .......

From the tactical matches I've shot, I seriously doubt I will every be reaching out and touching someone with an AR-15 past 300, certainly not past 500 meters, you can barely seen them at that distance.

If you want a good setup for "social work", I would recommend the compact ACOG in a 3x. Eye relief is a little tight, but okay. Elcan would work well, but I haven't tried one to comment.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 5:34:46 AM EDT
Folks, hits to 1000 yards with a .223 can be done. I saw it happen this past weekend. If you've got ample barrel length, and good ammo, dropping shot into the center mass of a target is not as hard as one would think.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 6:25:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By snoogins70:
Folks, hits to 1000 yards with a .223 can be done. I saw it happen this past weekend. If you've got ample barrel length, and good ammo, dropping shot into the center mass of a target is not as hard as one would think.



Those 1000 yard shots are done on a closed course, with wind flags, calculations, etc...

In the real world, I can't see doing 1000 yard shots. Too many variables. Misjudge the distance by 10% and you miss by a mile. Misjudge the wind, etc... and you face the same problem.

All that said, try target identification at 1000 yards. It's very tough at 500 meters, and that's on a course where I KNOW I can shoot anything I see.

Yep, AR's do well at Camp Perry shooting 1000 yards. I just don't think you'd use that in the real world. You will need to ID your target, and you will want to ensure a kill, not just a warning shot.

Besides, I'm not single loading special extra long Sierra tipped rounds.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 3:31:55 PM EDT
Actually, that wasn't on a "closed course", there were no wind flags, and we were dealing with 20mph winds gusting to 25 mph. The arm in question was a Ruger hunting rifle using 69gr GMM, not an AR. And there was well over 20 minutes of windage on the scope at the time. 75% of the shots found the mark @ the 1000 yard steel. With a bit of good wind reading, it can be done. It was very impressive to watch a .223 reach all the way out there. It dispelled alot of myths about the cartridge.
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 3:32:27 PM EDT
Actually, that wasn't on a "closed course", there were no wind flags, and we were dealing with 20mph winds gusting to 25 mph. The arm in question was a Ruger hunting rifle using 69gr GMM, not an AR. And there was well over 20 minutes of windage on the scope at the time. 75% of the shots found the mark @ the 1000 yard steel. With a bit of good wind reading, it can be done. It was very impressive to watch a .223 reach all the way out there. It dispelled a lot of myths about the cartridge.
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