Magazine durability/longevity interesting discussion over on the AR15 discussions section. - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Magazine durability/longevity interesting discussion over on the AR15 discussions section.

Posted: 8/4/2017 11:50:25 AM EDT

There is a very good thread on the "AR15 discussions" section started by Battlefield Las Vegas which is a commercial shooting range. They state they shoot 400,000 rounds per month through various weapons and this particular thread is about high round M4s and M16s. They mention which magazine lasts the longest and it is a bit different than what is typically parroted on this forum. Someone stated that the magazines were not often dropped and the OP said they are dropped all the time from 4-5 feet. Yes I know it is not "combat" or "overseas" or "scientific" and they don't mention DEET or bullet angles but it seems like an objective unbiased analysis from a gigantic sample size (test that go a certain way on this forum are often criticized for small sample size). Anyway its a pretty good read about the durability of all parts of the M4 and I thought their comments about which mags lasted longer was interesting and quite different from what you hear on this here mag forum.

Posted: 8/4/2017 12:07:07 PM EDT

[#1]

Here is the thread

Don't know what page has mag discussion on it.

Posted: 8/6/2017 11:37:23 AM EDT

[#2]

Thanks for the link. The mag part is on the first page just scroll down. Hint the longest lasting mags they have are made out of aluminum and the design has been around for 50 or so years. Great sample size. Actual hard constant use. Let the flames begin....

Posted: 8/6/2017 9:30:26 PM EDT

[#3]

His range also found the SCAR system to be more reliable/longer lasting than the AR system, by a very large margin.

They also seemed to sing praise to the AKM platform, despite what high round output class experiences have shown.

A controlled range environment, where the "drops" consist of merely dropping it into a tub isn't the same as genuine abuse.

Posted: 8/7/2017 1:18:42 AM EDT

[#4]

So which mags held up the best?

Edit: USGI mags. Not surprised that metal outlast plastic. 90% of my mags are USGI the rest are Troy with a few Pmags thrown in.

Larry V has always said USGI mags will last a lifetime.

Posted: 8/7/2017 9:43:51 AM EDT

[#5]

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A controlled range environment, where the "drops" consist of merely dropping it into a tub isn't the same as genuine abuse.

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That's what I thought at first but think about it if it wasn't "controlled" you would claim there were too many variables. How much more "abuse" do you need it sounds like the mags are loaded and fired all day long. For the sake of discussion define "abuse" and hold the war stories and the advertising.

Ok so now lets say they are roughed up even more in some kind of austere fantasy combat scenario (that probably no one here will ever experience) if polymer didn't "hold up" (relative to aluminum) at a shooting range does something magically happen to make it stronger in some type of different scenario???

Posted: 8/7/2017 11:59:27 AM EDT

[#6]

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That's what I thought at first but think about it if it wasn't "controlled" you would claim there were too many variables. How much more "abuse" do you need it sounds like the mags are loaded and fired all day long. For the sake of discussion define "abuse" and hold the war stories and the advertising.

Ok so now lets say they are roughed up even more in some kind of austere fantasy combat scenario (that probably no one here will ever experience) if polymer didn't "hold up" (relative to aluminum) at a shooting range does something magically happen to make it stronger in some type of different scenario???

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Quoted:

Quoted:

A controlled range environment, where the "drops" consist of merely dropping it into a tub isn't the same as genuine abuse.

That's what I thought at first but think about it if it wasn't "controlled" you would claim there were too many variables. How much more "abuse" do you need it sounds like the mags are loaded and fired all day long. For the sake of discussion define "abuse" and hold the war stories and the advertising.

Ok so now lets say they are roughed up even more in some kind of austere fantasy combat scenario (that probably no one here will ever experience) if polymer didn't "hold up" (relative to aluminum) at a shooting range does something magically happen to make it stronger in some type of different scenario???

Marine and army testing has already been conducted and the PMAG was shown to perform better when dirty and was shown to take more to bend the feed lips than the aluminum magazine.

They aren't dropping magazines onto the feed lips, at the range, or introducing them to mass amounts of sand or mud. The Marines didn't just switch to the PMAG because they felt like it, they did due to the evidence of the tests.

If all one is going to do is shoot in an air conditioned range, with no external variables, the standard black follower magazine will even work.

Posted: 8/7/2017 8:08:29 PM EDT

[#7]

Yup. Start dropping 'em partially loaded, stepping on 'em, banging 'em around on a chest rig and Pmags start to really shine.

Posted: 8/8/2017 8:18:57 PM EDT

[#8]

The article doesn't seem to address blackened stainless steel magazines. I've had very good luck with the blackened stainless steel magazines from C Products.

Posted: 8/19/2017 1:41:04 PM EDT

[#9]

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Yup. Start dropping 'em partially loaded, stepping on 'em, banging 'em around on a chest rig and Pmags start to really shine.

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My point wasn't to rehash common knowledge beaten to death over the last 10 years. This is new data with the benefit of a gigantic size in the setting of a range (believe it or not, most here are range shooters). What makes USGI magazines last longer in this setting? That is the topic I was curious about. I thought it would be an interesting discussion over here on the magazine forum and someone here might have an explanation or logical reason.

Posted: 8/25/2017 8:59:11 AM EDT

[#10]

JMHO, but the stresses a magazine at a range like BFLV are going to be subjected to are going to center around being cycled constantly with thousands upon thousands of rounds being fired through them on a weekly basis.

Your average civilian end user, or even the military, is going to see their mags subjected to a lot less actual live fire and a lot more being carried around in less controlled conditions while fully loaded. This leads to loaded mags being dropped at all sorts of different angles, mags being stepped on/banged into shit, mags being shoved into gear and lord knows what other compartments, etc.

Two different types of stresses that introduce two very different types/modes of failures, IMO.

Posted: 8/27/2017 8:56:05 AM EDT

[#11]

Good points. I've spent a couple years of the past two decades in combat zones and I would say that the majority of magazines in that setting are filled then stuck in fairly well padded magazine pouches for long periods of time without seeing the light of day for long periods of time if ever again. The idea that all magazines used by the military during deployments are all dropped, stomped on, spend a lot of time spitting out bullets at bad guys, and otherwise abused daily in terrible ways that simply can't be duplicated in the USA is a romantic fantasy....

Posted: 9/27/2017 4:01:12 PM EDT

[#12]

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...The idea that all magazines used by the military during deployments are all dropped, stomped on, spend a lot of time spitting out bullets at bad guys, and otherwise abused daily in terrible ways that simply can't be duplicated in the USA is a romantic fantasy....

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Posted: 9/27/2017 4:53:44 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:

My point wasn't to rehash common knowledge beaten to death over the last 10 years. This is new data with the benefit of a gigantic size in the setting of a range (believe it or not, most here are range shooters). What makes USGI magazines last longer in this setting? That is the topic I was curious about. I thought it would be an interesting discussion over here on the magazine forum and someone here might have an explanation or logical reason.

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That is a good question. I assume customers handle all different types of mags the same way.

Posted: 9/28/2017 2:19:03 AM EDT

[#14]

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I assume customers handle all different types of mags the same way.

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Ron stated in the linked discussion that the customers do not handle magazines. The range safeties load the weapons and then hand them to the customer to shoot. Once the customer is done shooting, the range safety takes the weapon back from them and removes the magazine. It's a very controlled environment because many of the customers have never shot, or often even handled, a firearm before.

Posted: 9/28/2017 5:53:45 PM EDT

[#15]

I'm still a USGI mag guy fwiw

. Good quality USGI mags have always served me very well, feel and just look right to me in the M16/AR15 platform. I will also say that polymer seems to be taking over the magazine arena IMHO but I will always choose quality USGI over a polymer mag, that's just me.

Posted: 9/29/2017 4:02:40 PM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

Ron stated in the linked discussion that the customers do not handle magazines. The range safeties load the weapons and then hand them to the customer to shoot. Once the customer is done shooting, the range safety takes the weapon back from them and removes the magazine. It's a very controlled environment because many of the customers have never shot, or often even handled, a firearm before.

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So why do the aluminum gi magazines outlast the polymer? If polymer is so superior to USGI why do they not last as long in a controlled environment??

Posted: 9/29/2017 5:57:11 PM EDT

[#17]

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So which mags held up the best?

Edit: USGI mags. Not surprised that metal outlast plastic. 90% of my mags are USGI the rest are Troy with a few Pmags thrown in.

Larry V has always said USGI mags will last a lifetime.

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Larry Vickers pimps who ever pays him.

When he said that he told everyone to go buy a 100 case of BCM mags because he's sucking the BCM cock right now.

Posted: 9/30/2017 7:29:04 PM EDT

[#18]

^ That is true. It makes me cringe sometimes, I took a couple of his classes 10 years or so back and he was a lot different then. If you ever sit around and talk to him though, he is a fucking encyclopedia of gun shit.

FWIW, he never really liked Pmags. The FDE and foliage green ones used to crack pretty regularly and he said if you're gonna run Pmags, black only.

Posted: 10/2/2017 4:59:24 PM EDT

[#19]

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^ That is true. It makes me cringe sometimes, I took a couple of his classes 10 years or so back and he was a lot different then. If you ever sit around and talk to him though, he is a fucking encyclopedia of gun shit.

FWIW, he never really liked Pmags. The FDE and foliage green ones used to crack pretty regularly and he said if you're gonna run Pmags, black only.

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He knows a lot about guns no doubt, when it comes to what's best you just have to ignore him as whoever is paying him is best.

Remember the Fireclean video?