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Posted: 8/30/2003 3:10:59 AM EDT
I got to fondle a 30 rd AR mag made by H&K recently. It was a work of art with typical teutonic overengineering. The body seem slick and heavy like tefloned steel and the follower looked like SS with an angular sort of bump on top instead of the blunted bullet shape on GI followers, anti tip of course. When i pressed on the follower it felt like it was on ball bearings, no slop no rubbing.

Unfortuanately this was one of several batches sent to the US for a military contract and there were problems with most of them so it seems like you won't be seeing them in your local base surplus store anytime soon.
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 6:39:16 AM EDT
Have any ideas exactly what problems they were having? My experience with these has been excellent. I have fired 4500 rds (9 cases Q3131A) through two HK mags, mostly on FA. Zero malfunctions or problems. Brings up another interesting question, maybe Troy can answer. I have seen a number of these HK mags with no LE markings but with an HK date code. Suppose Joe Citizen were to see some HK M16 mags for sale at a gun show. There are no LE markings but the HK date code "AD" is present. Is he expected to have the knowledge to decipher the HK code into a year of manufacture or is the mag considered "preban" because of lack of proper markings?
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 7:29:25 AM EDT
177, feeding problems that were attributed to the mags. When a gun that had had problems with the HKs went back to USGI no problems. It seems that the first mags sent over for evaluation were fine, the guy whose mags i was looking at got all of his mags from that batch and they worked great. However, when they purchase a larger batch to work them out they had so many problems they sent them back. I do not know what lots were good or bad but the guy who evaluated them is an AR15.com member maybe he'll pipe in. Don't know about the legal question..but i'd be tempted.
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 7:22:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 7:41:40 AM EDT
I took a class with Pat Rogers a couple of weeks ago and from what he said, the later ones have problems that were not present in the first run received. You can't seat them with 30 rounds, etc. Caveat emptor, even with H&K.
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 4:10:29 PM EDT
Why are the HK mags banned and/or for LEO or military only??
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 4:13:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Justyntym: Why are the HK mags banned and/or for LEO or military only??
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Because they were made after the Assault Weapons Ban.
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 5:06:37 PM EDT
Really. And for another stupid question. I own several handguns and was aware of the ban on over 10rnd mags but didn't know it applied to rifles. This is my first rifle, DPMS ar15 had it for two WHOLE weeks. :) SO all mags over 10rnds for rifles are pre-ban as well???? That ban is the stupidest Democrate BS I've ever seen. I'm looking at my DPMS, and the M-4 stock "looks like" I should be able to pull out the pin and have it collapse. Collapsable or not, I could care less, but I'm laughing inside at the stupidity of thought that somehow if my stock collapses, my rifle is FARRRRR more dangerous than if it doesn't, LOL. I always thought the dangerous part was the OTHER END :P
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 5:10:50 PM EDT
Which reminds me, I believe the ban sunsets and WILL sunset in Sept. of '04....that should loosen up the mag world a tad in quality and pricing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 8:18:23 PM EDT
I'm just curious, is there a "real" problem with the regular USGI mags? I mean, is the military regularly having problems with the current mags, with the teflon coating and the green follower, in good condition broken in but not been run over by a tank? I know they are newer, steel, and interesting follower design, but are they really worth the $35-$40 they are asking for it? Ghost
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 11:33:04 PM EDT
When it absolutely positivitly must work each and every time it is called upon, yes, it is worth the extra money. Blasting at a range with some buddies, no big deal if it jams. The only thing hurt is your pride. Now, stack on if you have your life at risk, is spending 10 to 20 more dollars worth it? Once HK works the kinks out, they will be top of the line -- bar none. It's all a numbers game really, these enhancements reduce the possibility of a failure. You see some of our top shelf SWAT agents carrying a 20,000 dollar subgun, do you think it makes them feel better knowing they have the best of the best for their meager pay check? Sure it does. No second place winners here, live or die. The price ain't that bad, Beretta preban mags are 40 bucks, Glocks are about 80. Top shelf ar mag's will be going in my rig. -Steve
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 3:09:48 AM EDT
ghost-shooter, no there is no problem with GI mags. I think H&K is just trying to get into a market where they could sell hundreds of thousands of an item with a high replacement rate. I don't know the $35-50 price you are quoting since AFAIK they are not on anything like an open market yet. Perhaps you're thinking of the english steel mags. Nice mags but not in the same ballpark. If i could purchase these H&K mags, once they've been proven reliable, for that price range i would. Not because i need them but just cause they are really nice mags, the ones that work anyway.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 6:53:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2003 6:53:56 PM EDT by Garand_Shooter]
Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter: I'm just curious, is there a "real" problem with the regular USGI mags? I mean, is the military regularly having problems with the current mags, with the teflon coating and the green follower, in good condition broken in but not been run over by a tank? I know they are newer, steel, and interesting follower design, but are they really worth the $35-$40 they are asking for it? Ghost
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FWIW, the military does not nor, nor has it ever purchased teflon coated aluminum mags. The mil-spec teflon mag is a product of mag dealers imaginations.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 7:02:17 PM EDT
Well, I suppose if they are not going to be in the $35-$50 range, I just might pick up a few if they ever become available to civvies. I wonder if they will wear out the aluminum lowers faster than the aluminum mags? Ghost
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 2:10:40 AM EDT
I thought these magazines were for the British SA80 improvement program. That they fit the M16 is a bonus.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:50:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 6:54:45 AM EDT by Hollywood304]
The H&K mags were made to try to fix some of the problems with the SA80. Troy wrote an article in SWAT magazine about, what'll ya know, Magazines. He also wrote about the H&K mags. I have two of them and haven't had any problems except one of the mags wasn't holding the bolt open on the last round. I took it apart and cleaned it, then it worked fine. I think they cost about $40 each, but it didn't bother me much since the city paid the bill. FYI, the mags have a [b]Chrome[/b] follower, not an aluminum one.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:02:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 7:22:17 PM EDT
Wow hollywood 304- can you enlighten us as to how you figure that Troy wrote that article?? I'm kinda' nervous as i cashed the check from SWAT for that story..... Troy- Rogers, not RoDgers..... But thanks for correcting him!
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 4:28:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By natez:
Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter: I'm just curious, is there a "real" problem with the regular USGI mags? I mean, is the military regularly having problems with the current mags, with the teflon coating and the green follower, in good condition broken in but not been run over by a tank? I know they are newer, steel, and interesting follower design, but are they really worth the $35-$40 they are asking for it? Ghost
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FWIW, the military does not nor, nor has it ever purchased teflon coated aluminum mags. The mil-spec teflon mag is a product of mag dealers imaginations.
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Not to disagree too much, but I got three well-used Labelles in a recent batch of US military surplus magazines that came straight from the military (through a DRMO program for LE). Out of the 80 some magazines, I could only put together about 20 working mags, after cleaning and canibalizing mags, but three had what appeared to be slick, teflon bodies (a brownish green in color, after severe use) with no postban markings and had Labelle floorplates.
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I don't have any doubt that some worked thier way into the system, but they were not procured or speced by the government. Heck, I have seen USA mags work thier way into the system. Joe gets issued 3 nice prebans, and turns in as unservicable 3 USA's crunched to prevent re-issue. The USA's go to DRMO and the arms room gets 3 new post-bans. Just because they turn up at DRMO doesn't mean much. I even bought a box of BDU's at DRMO that had a set of those red, black and white made in china gangsterflauge pants in it once, I don't know how it managed to work its way into the system but they damm sure were not issue.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:09:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 5:10:26 AM EDT by Hollywood304]
Wow hollywood 304- can you enlighten us as to how you figure that Troy wrote that article?? I'm kinda' nervous as i cashed the check from SWAT for that story..... Troy- Rogers, not RoDgers..... But thanks for correcting him!
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Pat, Sorry for the mistake. I didn't have the article with me when I wrote the post, and I just remembered seeing Troy's name at the end of the article. I totally forgot about the Subject and author lines at the beginning. Jay
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 10:48:02 AM EDT
No sweat Jay- just glad that you enjoyed the article!
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 11:06:31 AM EDT
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