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Link Posted: 4/6/2021 6:31:51 PM EDT
[#1]
…......

Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:27:14 AM EDT
[#2]
I gotta throw this out here.
I'm getting old and my memory isn't what it used to be. It seems to me that Winchester Q3131a1 was produced briefly in Korea. It appeared after the Israeli made Q3131a stopped being produced.  
What I DO remember is how much more I prefered the earlier Q3131a made in Israel just mentioned in this thread. I found it to be much cleaner brass & in much better shape than what Federal
was offering at the same time in it's XM193 brown boxes. Anybody remember the complaints about XM193 being floor sweepings? Filthy, dented, ugly ammo. That's what was going on around 2004.
Not only was the Q3131a cosmetically much more appealing, I found the Israeli made Q3131a to be more accurate.  I do not disagree about Winchester's QC going downhill after Q3131a dried up.
Personally speaking, since the Q3131a stopped being produced, my go to M193 as well as M855 spec ammo allegiance has switched to IMI, ADI (aussie), GGG (lith), AMA (danish) MagTech (77gr OTM's).
Luckily I stacked the earlier produced IMI DEEP before they reduced velocities. The ONLY Winchester branded 5.56 ammo I've purchased in the last 15 years or so was the USA3162W 62gr open tip made in Sweden. Sold in 900rd cases containing 5-180rd range packs in 2019. Also in 2020 a very limited amount of 5.56 62gr OTM designated as ZQ3352SS advertised as produced for Secret Service.
It was gobbled up very quickly and was only offered for a month or so. I have not shot any of the Secret Service stuff yet but the Swedish stuff is great. Seems Winchester does a much better job farming ammo production overseas than producing quality ammo in house.
Maybe they'll get their shit together while they have the LC contract.....but for now, I'll pass.
Link Posted: 4/27/2021 11:24:07 PM EDT
[#3]
I used to shoot that stuff by the boat load.  I found it funny they call it "Target" as it's worthless for sighting anything in past 50 yards.

The best "Bulk" ammo is the regular old Federal 5.56 XM193. It's consistently 1 to 1.5 MOA.  Too bad I haven't seen any for sale in over a year.  Best I can get ahold of is IMI.
Link Posted: 4/28/2021 12:03:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Not sure if any of it is still around, but Federal distributed "Independence" ammo in a blue and white box, loaded in Israel.  Some time between 2012-2015.

HOLY MACKEREL, that stuff was HOT and FLASHY.  It blew a lot of primers, and gave off quite the light show when linked and fired from a SAW.

Fiocchi has a problem with centering flash holes in the pocket.  Bent a few of my de-capping rods.

Back to topic, I've got WCC (East Alton?), WIN USA, Winchester, and WMA (Oxford, Mississippi) brass from M193 and commercial 55s.  All seem good for reloading.
Link Posted: 4/28/2021 3:02:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I used to shoot that stuff by the boat load.  I found it funny they call it "Target" as it's worthless for sighting anything in past 50 yards.

The best "Bulk" ammo is the regular old Federal 5.56 XM193. It's consistently 1 to 1.5 MOA.  Too bad I haven't seen any for sale in over a year.  Best I can get ahold of is IMI.
View Quote


That's because Winchester is running lake city now and if you want Lake City ammo you are more than likely going to be buying it in a Winchester marked box.
Link Posted: 4/29/2021 1:01:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/29/2021 4:52:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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Great...now ammo qc is going downhill due to the demand.
Link Posted: 4/30/2021 4:42:11 PM EDT
[#8]
I've purchased some of the white box Winchester m193 recently just for plinking to save my good ammo. Both the loose 500 packs and also 20rd white boxes.
I can confirm it has lousy accuracy, identical big sloppy groups as the previous targets posted in this thread.
I've compared back to back out of my 16" V Seven (1-7) with my good stash of Federal xm193 and it's pretty terrible.
When I first started shooting it I thought my scope wasn't holding zero, turns out it was just the ammo. Something else totally rad, in the same box I'm getting crimped and non crimped primers. It has been consistent and goes bang every time with no failures at least.  I won't be buying any more.
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Link Posted: 4/30/2021 10:33:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've purchased some of the white box Winchester m193 recently just for plinking to save my good ammo. Both the loose 500 packs and also 20rd white boxes.
I can confirm it has lousy accuracy, identical big sloppy groups as the previous targets posted in this thread.
I've compared back to back out of my 16" V Seven (1-7) with my good stash of Federal xm193 and it's pretty terrible.
When I first started shooting it I thought my scope wasn't holding zero, turns out it was just the ammo. Something else totally rad, in the same box I'm getting crimped and non crimped primers. It has been consistent and goes bang every time with no failures at least.  I won't be buying any more.
https://i.imgur.com/gG2Hdv5.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/gG2Hdv5.jpg
View Quote


Those crimped rounds are either for 855a1, tracers, or 249 belts.

Link Posted: 5/1/2021 2:24:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Those crimped rounds are either for 855a1, tracers, or 249 belts.

View Quote

I've also seen it on some of the win-lake city loose 855
Link Posted: 5/1/2021 3:27:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Those crimped rounds are either for 855a1, tracers, or 249 belts.

View Quote


Those 4 segment primer crimps are for M855A1.

Tracers and rounds belted for the 249 do not have different/special crimping requirements.

These 4 segment crimps have been found on other loads, such as XM855, because the factory used overrun cases originally intended for M855A1.
Link Posted: 5/2/2021 1:50:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Those 4 segment primer crimps are for M855A1.

Tracers and rounds belted for the 249 do not have different/special crimping requirements.

These 4 segment crimps have been found on other loads, such as XM855, because the factory used overrun cases originally intended for M855A1.
View Quote

I've seen the 4 segment crimps on m856 long before 855a1 was adopted
Link Posted: 5/3/2021 10:34:01 PM EDT
[#13]
I've been using the Federal stuff for a while now with good results.  I don't know if now that they aren't running the LC plant the quality will change or not, but as availability is more of a problem for everything, next time I get a chance to buy some bulk Federal 193 or 855 clone ammo at a reasonable price, I'll jump on it & find out.
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