If You Only Could Stock One AR Ammo? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - If You Only Could Stock One AR Ammo? (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 11/2/2019 1:39:18 PM EDT

[#1]

Wolf Gold unless you know someone that works at Lake City to get in on their bi-annual employee purchase.

Posted: 11/2/2019 1:59:02 PM EDT

[#2]

German-made MEN M193. Really good stuff.

Posted: 11/2/2019 2:26:13 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
IMI Razor Core with the 77gr SMK. Decently accurate in all my rifles.

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Exactly what I’m working on.

Posted: 11/6/2019 9:09:46 AM EDT

[#4]

Either MK262 or the Black Hills 77gr TMK would be my first choice, money be damned.

As I'd rather shoot more for less, my recipes focus on the 77gr TMK and the 55gr Hornady SP. Not coincidentally, they hold a very similar line of flight out to quite a distance.

Posted: 11/6/2019 3:05:14 PM EDT

[#5]

funny...i clicked here expecting to see votes for M855A1 but there are none. did that round lose favor this year? or are we talking only available stuff?

i've been fond of Mk318 as a poor man's version of 855a1. the tip opens well down to SBR velocities and the core keeps on going for barrier work.

accuracy is no where close to mk262 but i have a couple barrels that shoot it around 1.5moa which i'll take as the trade off for more effectiveness at bad breath distances.

Posted: 11/6/2019 4:47:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Cost being a factor= M193
Cost not a factor= MK318

Posted: 11/7/2019 12:35:45 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
MK 262

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This ^^^^^ No brainer. 77 grain OTM running 2765 fps out of an 18" barrel. 55's and 62's can't compete.

Posted: 11/7/2019 1:39:40 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

This ^^^^^ No brainer. 77 grain OTM running 2765 fps out of an 18" barrel. 55's and 62's can't compete.

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Neither can my wallet!

For me, it's M193. It's not a whiz-bang, bonded, OTM whatever, but I can afford to stock up on it, and in my 14.5"+ barrels, it will do the job well enough if SHTF. For my AR pistols (hopefully soon to be SBRs), I'm working on stocking up on other items. I have 300 rounds of TAP LE 5.56mm 55gr GMX Barrier that should last awhile, and I'm trying to track down more. Gold Dot is also on my radar as a fall back if I can't find more of the TAP. I went with the 55s simply because they'll match the trajectory of M193 if I need to use them in my longer rifles. At HD ranges, it won't really matter if I'm using 55s, 62s, 75s, or 77s, so we'll see if I stick with the 55s long-term or not, but I probably won't fund much of the TAP Barrier again at the price I paid and I can't afford to stock up on anything that runs $1/shot for regular range use. My 77 SMK stuff that I do stock is generally reserved for long-range use.

Posted: 11/7/2019 4:49:48 PM EDT

[#9]

Cost not an issue - Mk262
Cost an issue - Hornady/Frontier 75gr BTHP T2 - At 45 cents/round it's very hard to beat IMO. Ballistics are right up there with Mk262. I've had great consistency and never an issue with it through any of my guns.

Posted: 11/7/2019 5:40:08 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cost not an issue - Mk262
Cost an issue - Hornady/Frontier 75gr BTHP T2 - At 45 cents/round it's very hard to beat IMO. Ballistics are right up there with Mk262. I've had great consistency and never an issue with it through any of my guns.

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The Frontier kBs! have kept me from running any of it through my rifles until I go awhile without see any issues with them.

Posted: 11/7/2019 7:27:12 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Frontier kBs! have kept me from running any of it through my rifles until I go awhile without see any issues with them.

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Yes, I was very hesitant to start using any of their ammo due to that as well. From what I've read it seemed the kabooms were with the 55 grain M193 stuff. I have yet to see any reports of it happening with their 75 grain ammo. For the first 200 (or so) rounds of it I shot I checked all the spent brass for any problems and haven't found one yet. Not only has it functioned very well for me, I got super consistent chronograph numbers too. Even though I'm pretty confident in it thus far I suppose (all things considered) I might want to rethink it being a realistic "stockpile" round.

That being said my other option would be this:

Cost not an issue: Mk262
Cost an issue: Mk262, but not as much of it as I would like.

Posted: 11/7/2019 11:52:38 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
That corroded Guatemalan stuff that smelled like cat piss. That was some good shit.

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Lol... still got some.

Posted: 11/7/2019 11:56:10 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Cost being a factor= M193
Cost not a factor= MK318

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Posted: 11/10/2019 3:50:52 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
AE223N - $0.35 rd?
M855 speed and weight, but M193 construction (no steel penetrator). Cheap, accurate, has reach thanks to construction, speed and weight.

I use this as it's a ballistic match with 62gr Fusion MSR ($1 rd?) , which has a fantastic track record for accuracy, reach and terminal performance.

But if you truly want one and only one to do it all,
Mk262/Mk262 clone - $0.60 rd?

View Quote

People do not appreciate this round enough.

Posted: 11/10/2019 7:02:23 PM EDT

[#15]

Wolf Gold. An excellent balance between price and performance.

Posted: 11/10/2019 7:10:51 PM EDT

[#16]

Guatemala M193. I still have a case.

IMI M855 and M193. LC M855 and M193.

I reload, so I stack Hornady in all the things.

Posted: 11/10/2019 7:20:41 PM EDT

[#17]

If I could pick from any and price was not an issue, Black Hills 75 gr HP

On the cheap Wolf Gold

Posted: 11/11/2019 12:44:01 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
People do not appreciate this round enough.

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AE223N desperately needs more promoting.

Posted: 11/13/2019 11:18:54 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Honestly probably wolf gold. Its cheap and accurate in all my ars

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Not to mention it has great velocity. It's my favorite m193.

For me it's a toss up between wolf gold and gold dots in 62gr or 64gr.

Posted: 11/17/2019 2:26:55 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
I mean... if you don’t factor cost? M855A1, Gold Dot, MSR Fusion, etc.

More realistically? M193

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I agree 100%.

Posted: 11/17/2019 6:32:46 AM EDT

[#21]

Green tip (LC, PMC, IMI, AMA & ADI)...the last two brands are sealed in plastic packs of 10. I've got M193 and Mk262 too, but train with green tips primarily.

Posted: 11/17/2019 6:34:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Green tip (LC, PMC, IMI, AMA & ADI)...the last two brands are sealed in plastic packs of 10 and don't have painted tips. Though I've got M193 and Mk262 too, I train with green tips primarily.

Posted: 11/17/2019 7:45:28 AM EDT

[#23]

Target Sports has 1000 rounds of Wolf Gold .223 55gr FMJ for $269.50 + tax with free shipping...good deal?
Right now I buy a box of bullets every so often and reload.

Posted: 11/17/2019 7:59:36 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

PPU price is right and it's good stuff.

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@Apocalypto darn good reloading brass to boot!

Posted: 11/17/2019 8:22:17 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Just one?

Magtech 77gn SMK

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this or (and) wolf gold

Posted: 11/17/2019 8:27:00 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
If you had only one 223/556 you could stock pile for planking/practice, but wanted it also for SHTF what would be your choice? Any specific reason?

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In no particular order....

XM193
PMC X-Tac.
My hand loads.

Posted: 11/17/2019 9:21:20 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It’s absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that’s what they have experienced and it’s cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

View Quote

My sentiment exactly

Posted: 11/17/2019 10:11:10 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It's absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that's what they have experienced and it's cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

View Quote

yup. the New Zealand army issues it as their standard load

Posted: 11/17/2019 1:00:58 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

The Frontier kBs! have kept me from running any of it through my rifles until I go awhile without see any issues with them.

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I know that there are some that have a different opinion than I do and like to argue their OPINION, (some not so nice or in a not civil manner) but... ALL of the REPORTED lot numbers associated with kabooms/problems are the same.

SMQ18C8

Those lots were manufatured approximately 2 years ago.

Either that's an AWEFUL BIG coincidence or the problems are limited to ONLY those lots.

While Hornady Frontier wouldn't be my first choice, IMO, it's not bad and also, IMO, the fear to buy and shoot it is WAY overblown.

Analogy... it's like a food company having bad lots of whatever ( mushrooms, lettuce etc) that folks ate and got sick. That doesn't mean that those foods in general are unsafe to eat for now on. They just had bad or contaminated lots.

Now I know the difference is that those food companies would typically issue a recall ( admit there is a problem) but Hornadys Denial doesn't really negate the circumstances of the problem.

IMO, they had bad lots of ammo and in all likelihood; the ammunition produced after that time period is good.

The way I see it, the fear or apprehension to buy and or shoot this ammo is largely psychological.

All of the known evidence points toward the fact that the problem is limited to those lots only.

SMQ18C8

There is NO EVIDENCE to indicate that this is an ongoing problem.

Posted: 11/17/2019 1:50:23 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Guatemala M193. I still have a case.

IMI M855 and M193. LC M855 and M193.

I reload, so I stack Hornady in all the things.

View Quote

Just a reminder.. that Guat. has small flash holes. And it is good stuff.

Posted: 11/17/2019 3:24:52 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

I know that there are some that have a different opinion than I do and like to argue their OPINION, (some not so nice or in a not civil manner) but... ALL of the REPORTED lot numbers associated with kabooms/problems are the same.

SMQ18C8

Those lots were manufatured approximately 2 years ago.

Either that's an AWEFUL BIG coincidence or the problems are limited to ONLY those lots.

While Hornady Frontier wouldn't be my first choice, IMO, it's not bad and also, IMO, the fear to buy and shoot it is WAY overblown.

Analogy... it's like a food company having bad lots of whatever ( mushrooms, lettuce etc) that folks ate and got sick. That doesn't mean that those foods in general are unsafe to eat for now on. They just had bad or contaminated lots.

Now I know the difference is that those food companies would typically issue a recall ( admit there is a problem) but Hornadys Denial doesn't really negate the circumstances of the problem.

IMO, they had bad lots of ammo and in all likelihood; the ammunition produced after that time period is good.

The way I see it, the fear or apprehension to buy and or shoot this ammo is largely psychological.

All of the known evidence points toward the fact that the problem is limited to those lots only.

SMQ18C8

There is NO EVIDENCE to indicate that this is an ongoing problem.

View Quote

You could be absolutely correct. I got a NASTY case of food poisoning from Red Robin when I ate it on my birthday last year (yay for stomach cramps, cold sweats, vomit, diarrhea, and uncontrollable muscle cramps for your birthday/NYE), and I haven’t eaten there since. I’m certain it’s just a psychological thing, but with so many other options for burgers out there, I can afford to eat elsewhere.

And when it comes to having a kB in my expensive rifles, there are a lot of other options aside from Frontier, sooo... I don’t feel I’m missing out at all here. Your money, your rifles, my money, my rifles.

Posted: 11/17/2019 4:11:14 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

You could be absolutely correct. I got a NASTY case of food poisoning from Red Robin when I ate it on my birthday last year (yay for stomach cramps, cold sweats, vomit, diarrhea, and uncontrollable muscle cramps for your birthday/NYE), and I haven’t eaten there since. I’m certain it’s just a psychological thing, but with so many other options for burgers out there, I can afford to eat elsewhere.

And when it comes to having a kB in my expensive rifles, there are a lot of other options aside from Frontier, sooo... I don’t feel I’m missing out at all here. Your money, your rifles, my money, my rifles.

View Quote

I totally understand. I had similar experiences with restaurants myself. A Psychological Effect is very powerful and if I were one of the unfortunate guys who experienced a kaboom with Hornady Frontier; I'd be inclined to avoid ( and preach against) the ammunition myself.

Posted: 11/17/2019 4:33:23 PM EDT

[#33]

Don't get me wrong, Hornady makes excellent stuff overall. I'm not writing Frontier off entirely, just giving them time to sort things and make SURE it was an isolated lot. Just like I'll probably eat at Red Robin again, after a few decades...

But I'm not going to actively bash them, just pointing out a potential issue is all. Everyone's welcome to choose for themselves, and if someone's having good luck with Frontier, more power to them!

Posted: 11/18/2019 8:49:12 PM EDT

[#34]

I think the bigger issue with Hornady Frontier isn't the hypothetical risk of a KB so much as the shoddy manner in which the company responded to the issues. I know it's not endearing to me when a company just piles on the hassle after their product already dicked me over. There are plenty of other ammo companies out there that will bend over backward to try and make things right for a customer.

As for stocking, M855A1 all the way. It's a little pricey, but worth it. Second place goes to IMI M193, it's nice and hot even out of shorter barrels.

Posted: 11/18/2019 9:14:49 PM EDT

[#35]

Federal 62gr fusion for close stuff and my 75gr HPBT Hornady reloads.

Posted: 11/18/2019 10:43:26 PM EDT

[#36]

All I buy is M193. All my rifles zeroed for it and no worries.

Posted: 11/18/2019 11:11:27 PM EDT

[#37]

Posted: 11/18/2019 11:43:12 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
https://1696252748.rsc.cdn77.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/IMG_7265%20(2)_2.JPG

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I love those battle packs.

Posted: 11/22/2019 11:32:41 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
My sentiment exactly

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It’s absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that’s what they have experienced and it’s cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

My sentiment exactly

Posted: 11/24/2019 6:52:20 AM EDT

[#40]

Any - Explosive penetrating incendiaries.
Now - 62g Gold Dot
Future - M855a1
Cheap - M193, 75g Frontier

Posted: 11/24/2019 8:28:06 AM EDT

[#41]

MK262

Posted: 12/16/2019 2:31:04 AM EDT

[#42]

Federal XM193, primarily because several local shops always have it available and on sale often enough.

Posted: 12/16/2019 2:47:51 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It’s absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that’s what they have experienced and it’s cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

View Quote

If money was no object, this all the way.

Posted: 12/19/2019 10:13:40 AM EDT

[#44]

If I can pick only one? M193. IMI has edged out federal in the accuracy department so I prefer it despite having tons federal.

In real life? A 10/10/20/60 ratio of MK318, Speer 75gr GD, MK262 Clone and M193 respectively.

Posted: 12/24/2019 12:27:30 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It’s absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that’s what they have experienced and it’s cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:
Someone else paying? mk262

Why? Simple. I can reliably hit a man size target with it out to 800 yards. At 600 yards I can hit a man-size target with it 26 times in 60 seconds. No misses. Unsupported. In a heavy crosswind. It’s absolutely outstanding.

Everyone likes 55 ball because that’s what they have experienced and it’s cheap, but mk262 is the king of 5.56.

Long live the 77gr OTM

Not to mention, incredibly lethal at close range. In my experience on live targets, performance looks like M193 on steroids.

I keep a case for HD / hunting / shtf purposes but it's just too expensive for regular shooting.

e.g., whitetail deer inside of 100 yards...this is CBC/Magtech "first defense sniper" but it is similar:

Quoted:
That corroded Guatemalan stuff that smelled like cat piss. That was some good shit.

Still have some squirreled away. If you were lucky, the bugs infiltrated the battle pack and chewed away all the cardboard packaging for you. Stuff is great especially if you like watching fireballs kick out of your ejection port. It was so cheap...regret not buying straight up 100k rounds.

Posted: 1/6/2020 4:00:14 PM EDT

[#46]

My handloads with Barnes TSX 62 grain bullets. Decent BC (long for weight), still stabilize in my older slow twist barrels, shoot I MOA from a good faster twist match barrel, barrier blind, excellent terminal ballistics, break bone and still leave an exit wound.

This has become my default 5.56 load both for deer hunting and HD.

If you don’t roll your own, Black Hills and Barnes both load it in complete 5.56 ammo.

Posted: 1/6/2020 6:02:51 PM EDT

[#47]

I have 75gr Frontier and 77gr IMI for my 16" SHTF weapon. So basically 262 clone.

Posted: 1/8/2020 4:30:17 PM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
Second place goes to IMI M193, it's nice and hot even out of shorter barrels.

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not sure that is 100% accurate. sometime around 2015 IMI backed off the powder charge because of barrels being made with tight chamber where causing problems with IMI m193 ammo.

i have lots of IMI m193 from 2012 and ever year up to 2018. i pulled bullets and measured the charge in each year, it dropped by a 2 grains around 2015.