I probably wouldnt use that as a good example of 5.56 lethality: Out of the 480 people shot only 58 were killed. Thats a 12% fatality rate.

True and he was spaying nor shooting up and close.

CD

I gotcha brother, sorry if I misunderstood. Makes sense the way you put it.

Thanks for the pointers. Loaded mag for 30 years really says something about the ammo and quality mag.

I have a question, I notice some guys use 20 round mags instead of 30, are 20 more reliable? Makes sense from a physics perspective and spring tension vs follower.

I was still amazed that an AR, from that elevation and distance, could be so effective. Even with the "targets" so closely placed. Does anyone know what type of round he used? Ill google in the meantime, may be a lazy question to have asked.

In a zombie apocalypse scenario, there's nothing wrong with FMJ. Matter of fact, it would be preferred.

Have you contributed anything to this thread other than paint yourself as a jackass?  I said "military grade ammo".  It must be tough trying to argue when you have 4th grade reading comprehension. You might want to research that topic a little bit more also.

Buying some a bunch of 55gr FMJ and then a few hundred rounds of 75-77gr OTM/BTHP that shoots good in your rifle might be the way to go.

There was a discussion back in June debating the difference between the Frontier 75gr T2 ammo vs Hornady 75gr TAP. One of the guys, @rybe390 said that from his experience: "75-77 grain 50 yard zero as your main zero matches trajectory of 55 grain 100 yard zero out to 600 yards or so."

He also said that: "Just my thoughts here, but a 50 yard zero with 75-77 hornady frontier, mk262, etc, and a 100 yard zero with m193, gives you easy training/blasting and a consistent zero for everything. Just know the adjustment you need to make on your scope to get 55 grain to zero at 100."

Here's the discussion:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Hornady-Frontier-5-56-75-gr-T2-VS-Hornady-TAP-5-56-75-gr-T2/16-727667/

Oh my reading comprehension is just fine. Keep digging yourself in a deeper hole.

Indeed. At that range its more important to hit the target than cause a grievous wound so I would want to most accurate round possible instead of the most lethal. Up close, yeah it matters. A mortally wounded bad guy can still put rounds into in the last few seconds he's alive so you want the most destructive rounds to put him down as quickly as possible.

20s are extremely reliable unless damaged.  They never went thru the issue of follower dipping.  However most reasons would be for the compactness.  They don't snag as much, allow lower profile on bench, retro, fit one box of ammo  Get as many of each as you can while the prices are cheap and Dems push for another ban.

CD

Molon contributed more in single posts than most users have their entire posting careers.

Its sad how Molon wasnt even mentioned in this post and some idiot like NVjunkie decides to bad mouth him for no F'ing reason. I understand why he left, mods do nothing while an endless flood of idiots can say whatever they want.

Ive been around arfcom longer than most. This forum no longer provides good info. When I try to provide it gets bad mouthed or ignored.

M-193 does not suck in combat. It isn't the best of choices bet for price, availability for stocking, and track record combined it is good.

Even better if you shoot 1/14 or 1/12 twist 20in barrels.

855 is ok for 20 in barrels and not far shots on flesh.

This. I've used M-193 for a couple of tours and it works better than the "Gucci Snob ammo" bloviating about the inconsistencies. All ammo has its inconsistencies. In real world SHTF the citizen wont be shooting past 100-150 yds for the defensive survival. It can happen, but would be rare and 95% cant effectively do it anyway.

The M-193 is very available, reasonably priced, and effective enough to both stock in quantity as well as practice.

Whats the best ammo for combat? M193

Whats the best ammo for home defense? M193

Whats the best ammo for hunting? M193

Hey if you cant beat em. Join em. #M193echochamber

He didn't say that. He said it was loaded to military grade ammo.

I was wrong, you all are right M193 is best ammo ever made. Absolutely 1 shot stop lethal and shoots sub-MOA too.

I now worship at the altar of M193. Praise be the M193.

#M193echochamber

Yeah the M-16a1 had the 1/12

Israel does or until very recently had 1/12 guns in stockpile. IMI M-193 is loaded to true 193 spec for them.

I prefer the 20 only as a lighter and more convenient to carry and shoot benched or prone. 30s are in if I had to expect hostile activity.

Like you proved, he said military GRADE ammo. YOU are painting yourself more vividly as an ass with the attitude that is coming across.

Whatever you can hit effectively with.

Keep on being an ass...

Go eat a snickers, you're being a immature child.

So bad mouthing members who contribute useful things to forum and giving bad info isnt being an ass instead you defend them, lol. This forum is so ass backwards. #M193echochamber

Before reading all the hate comments, I came here to say M193

The guy asked for inexpensive, dual purpose, stack deep ammo.

Any of the quality brass 5.56 will do the trick.  Cheapest of those tend to be 855 and 193.  And, generally speaking, those will perform better than any of the .223 for similar money.

Man, some people just love to hate.  Yeah if you want to step it up to a later & greater round, go right ahead.  But it's not going to be something this guy wants to train with, or most shooters who buy their own ammo, for that matter.

9mm wise, I'd say the old Federal Hi-shok would be a solid choice, in any of the weights or pressures, but I might avoid the +p+.

I don't really shoot 12ga but just about any old buckshot will do.

45, I'd guess if you're looking to be cost-conscious on your 9mm ammo I'd avoid the expense of stacking .45 deep altogether.  Also harder to find deals on 45 at all in my experience, though I haven't shopped it in awhile.  OP, do you actually own and shoot your .45s, is the question.

Ok... What is you experience with shooting aggressive people with any 5.56 load?

You are being an insufferable ass because some don't agree with you?

I've always thought the Hi-Shok handgun line from Federal performed better than they should've.

Thank you guys, I can't keep up with the responses but this is so much great info!

I'm going to stock up on the 193 and 855 for now. 2 x 1000 cases of each while the sales are running.

Then add Gold Dot, TAP and MK262, few boxes of each for testing as I find them cheap.

That will get me started.

Here's my take on this:

If you're going to buy 20 rd boxes to test, shoot the whole box, but in 5-shot groups. Cold vs hot bores are a thing. It depends on your barrel, but some barrels can see a POI shift of 2-4MOA Cold bore vs hot bore.

A 10-shot string can open up if you start with a cold bore, dependent on shot tempo/intervals.

My preference is to use a Redfield style sight-in target. 5 aiming points. 5 shots per group.

Depending on your range, you can set several of them up, so you can shoot various different loads (4 groups of 5-shots per box) without having to keep taking down and putting up new targets. Just note what you were shooting, at which target.

Eg.
Target 1
IMI M193
Top Left, Top right, Center, bottom left

Prvi Partizan M193
Bottom right

Target 2
Prvi Partizan M193
Top Left, Top Right, Center

Magtech 77gr
Bottom left, bottom right

Etc.

If you're zeroed for 1 load at 100yds, you generally won't need to rezero between different loads. They won't hit the center, but they should be close enough to stay on paper, so even if the group is 3" low and 2" left, you can still gauge the precision/consistency.

Perfect round for your purpose is Magtech/CBC 62gr FMJ.   It's 32 cpr and can do 1-1.5MOA, way more accurate than M193 or M855 and has a good ballistic coefficient. You can use it reliably out to 700 yards, yet should work for home defense too. Primer is sealed and everything. Better than Wolf Gold even.

Tula.

Wolf Gold is a good training round that’s pretty well regarded. If I had to use it for defensive purposes it wouldn’t be the end of the world but I’d rather have other ammo.

223/5.56 training ammo is Wolf Gold, defense ammo is Fusion MSR

9mm training ammo is 124 FMJ, defensive ammo is 124 HST

Thanks man!

Kinda with this guy. I don't concern myself too much with the 5.56 debacle. I stack whatever m193 I can find cheapest that groups well in my rifles. Again, that's STACKING. I also use that stuff to train and blast. I'm comfortable with using it for bipedal apes, but if you're not, grab some fusion/golddot/etc. I don't hunt with 5.56, but if I did, I'd pick up some of the quality stuff.

As far as 9mm goes, I again stack ball ammo. Almost exclusively a m882 style (124gr loaded hot). Currently I carry 9bple (115gr hishok +p+), but am switching over to 124gr HST +p, mostly for availability reasons, but also because of its performance. Standard hishok could easily prove useful to stack because of its price and it's better than ball. It at least has a chance to expand. I can attest to the 9bple being a good load, it has a good track record with LE, and it did its job (expand) on flesh when tested on a deer carcass (before gutting) and ground hog. Turned the deer lungs into jello at 15 yards.

I don't shoot much .45 any more, but I do keep a good amount on hand. Again, I'm comfortable stacking ball, and again, cheap hollow points would be an upgrade, but I'm not worried about it. I do keep a few boxes of 230gr HST +p on hand if I decide to carry it.

Not much can be done with shotgun shells, besides testing them to see what kind of patterns a specific load will do in YOUR gun. As expected at this point, I stack cheap buckshot, keeping in mind it's not premium stuff. You can't improve the terminal performance of a specific size round lead ball much, so just go with what patterns tight. I do keep some flight control on hand. One can easily argue #1 is better than 00, and I will purchase that if available at a good price. I keep a limited number of 3" magnum shells on hand to put one in the chamber with flight control in the magazine.

As far as slugs go, IMO, they're all the same until you get into sabots. For rifled slugs, I again buy whatever is cheapest that groups. For me it's winchester 3" 1oz. These slugs will easily desintegrate masonry, shatter transmissions (mangling and locking up the gears too), and crack smaller engines. Poor man's antimaterial rifle. Of course they will cut a 3/4" hole through a deer or a bad guy too. IMO the premium stuff like brenekke doesn't offer the performance increase to justify the cost for my use/needs.

Ammo doesn't have to be super complicated. We get so immersed in the wide range of choices that we lose sight of the goal. Perfection isn't a thing. Good enough is. I certainly don't feel out gunned with my current selection. Maybe if money was no object to me I'd stack all gold dot or whatever primo stuff, but I'm a working man with bills to pay.

Don't forget some good .22 (i like aguila subsonic and CCI SV) and some bird shot (i have better luck with 7 or 7.5).

This.

For home defense load some propper HD stuff, for zombies, just stock it cheap and deep. I mean they been killing pur guys with steel case bi metal bullets stored in less than ideal conditions for years.